Bringing horse back to WP?

[TooMuchRebel]

What would I need to do to be able to get my horse to a point where she can do western pleasure again? She’s pleasure bred, shown a few times, but isn’t a “dead broke WP”. She’s broke in the riding sense, but not for WP. She has the natural gaits for it.

Right now I am training her to barrel race/game. She seems to enjoy it. We do a lot of cross training for conditioning. Some days I’ll pop her over some low jumps and poles, other days I’ll take her out for a good stretch run. However, I like my all rounder horses, and she’s definitely one of them. I’d like to compete WP every now and then, but not sure where I should start? I figure having her collect up and rate would be the easiest, and we’d only do W/J classes to start with. What other kind of conditioning/strength exercises could I do with her to build up her hind end to be able to “sit” and collect properly for the gaits?

Also, a little unrelated, but would I be penalized for using a saddle too large for myself? It’s my mothers, but it makes a lovely looking WP saddle. Obviously too big saddles throw you to a weird balance, but her jog is so nice (when she feels like it) it doesn’t seem to matter what I’m using. I currently do all my training “English”.

[findeight]

Tough to get a horse to understand when it’s OK to open up the stride and lift the head to drive off the rear end and gooooo through the pattern looking for the timers then put the head down low and do the pitty pat steps nose to tail along the rail not daring to pass the horse ahead.

There are some divisions that are a little more compatable with speed events, maybe Western Riding, Ranch Horse classes and such.

That said it all depends on where you show and who you are showing against. There are horses who are good at being a jack of all trades but they are not going to be a master of any of them and won’t be competitive with the specialists. There’s a conformation component tooo…a successful speed and games horse needs different conformation then a low, level WP specialist with itty bitty strides.

If you want to mess around a little with it and cross train to keep it interesting , that’s fine. But fear you will get yourself and the mare frustrated if you try to get her to competition standers in both at the same time.

BTW, happen to be a cross training fan but did mine and had points in Western Riding, Trail, Hunter Hack ( with the two fences) and a bit of Reining. Only went in WP to help fill if needed and, frankly, was not competitive despite a few points in it. It required a very careful ride and the horses did get confused going back and forth the same day which Itried to avoid, you can ask for too many unrelated things from them and both of you be unhappy. It’s a yes you theoretically can but should you?

You can use the too big saddle but you won’t make as good an impression as one that suits you. Remember, these are all subjective classes and the impression you make on the judge the second you step into the ring is the one that lasts and determines if you will be taken seriously or not. And Im not kidding, especially at a breed show. Control what you can, you can’t control much about how your horse stacks up against the others physically, but you can control your performance and the DETAILS that create a positive impression.

[TooMuchRebel]

@findeight

Tough to get a horse to understand when it’s OK to open up the stride and lift the head to drive off the rear end and gooooo through the pattern looking for the timers then put the head down low and do the pitty pat steps nose to tail along the rail not daring to pass the horse ahead.

There are some divisions that are a little more compatable with speed events, maybe Western Riding, Ranch Horse classes and such.

That said it all depends on where you show and who you are showing against. There are horses who are good at being a jack of all trades but they are not going to be a master of any of them and won’t be competitive with the specialists. There’s a conformation component tooo…a successful speed and games horse needs different conformation then a low, level WP specialist with itty bitty strides.

If you want to mess around a little with it and cross train to keep it interesting , that’s fine. But fear you will get yourself and the mare frustrated if you try to get her to competition standers in both at the same time.

BTW, happen to be a cross training fan but did mine and had points in Western Riding, Trail, Hunter Hack ( with the two fences) and a bit of Reining. Only went in WP to help fill if needed and, frankly, was not competitive despite a few points in it. It required a very careful ride and the horses did get confused going back and forth the same day which Itried to avoid, you can ask for too many unrelated things from them and both of you be unhappy. It’s a yes you theoretically can but should you?

You can use the too big saddle but you won’t make as good an impression as one that suits you. Remember, these are all subjective classes and the impression you make on the judge the second you step into the ring is the one that lasts and determines if you will be taken seriously or not. And Im not kidding, especially at a breed show. Control what you can, you can’t control much about how your horse stacks up against the others physically, but you can control your performance and the DETAILS that create a positive impression.

She seems to do pretty good opening up and closing up, but I can definitely see how she could get confused. We definitely won’t be competitive, but local shows would be fun for just an extra class so there’s not as much down time. I figure teach her basics and I can apply it to just about anything. I’m not sure about her conformation for it, as I said she’s pleasure bred but I’m not familiar with WP conformation. I can provide pics if it matters.

I didn’t think about impressions. It’s the only western saddle we’ve got (selling my barrel). They’re all 15-16" but I found out I’m actually a 13". Thank you for your answer!

[findeight]

It’s about having fun so have some fun at your local shows.

[Tee]

I think with careful training and consideration it can be done (all dependant on the horse, of course). Heck, at a breed show last year my guy did reining, western pleasure, and english pleasure all on the same day and he did well in all of the classes. We cross train in pretty much everything and he doesn’t have any problem figuring out what I am asking of him.

[Rackonteur]

@findeight

It’s about having fun so have some fun at your local shows.

This. Why do you want to show in a division where you are judged by the size of your saddle? If it fits your horse comfortably, nothing else matters unless you are slip-sliding all over it like a 5yo in a grown man’s reining saddle.
(Or a grown cowboy in a cross-country saddle!)

And why do you want a horse who, your words, is happy barrel racing to have to go back to being a peanut-rolling, pitty-pat, 4-beat “lope” WP horse? I thought they had gotten rid of all that crap a few years ago. Are they still doing it? When I was a kid WP was WJL, not peanut-rolling pitty-pat 4-beat not-lope.

[findeight]

They keep saying they are getting rid of that as they have been saying the low poll is penalized since, like, 1990 if not earlier, still see it too much, especially below the top levels.

[Palm_Beach]

With the explosion of the popularity of the ranch classes, especially at local levels, I’m wondering if there will be issues down the road with lack of entries in wp classes. In my area, wp was the big draw. Now the ranch division carries the shows with 10-30 entries and there are 3 entries in wp.

[Bluey]

@TooMuchRebel

What would I need to do to be able to get my horse to a point where she can do western pleasure again? She’s pleasure bred, shown a few times, but isn’t a “dead broke WP”. She’s broke in the riding sense, but not for WP. She has the natural gaits for it.

Right now I am training her to barrel race/game. She seems to enjoy it. We do a lot of cross training for conditioning. Some days I’ll pop her over some low jumps and poles, other days I’ll take her out for a good stretch run. However, I like my all rounder horses, and she’s definitely one of them. I’d like to compete WP every now and then, but not sure where I should start? I figure having her collect up and rate would be the easiest, and we’d only do W/J classes to start with. What other kind of conditioning/strength exercises could I do with her to build up her hind end to be able to “sit” and collect properly for the gaits?

Also, a little unrelated, but would I be penalized for using a saddle too large for myself? It’s my mothers, but it makes a lovely looking WP saddle. Obviously too big saddles throw you to a weird balance, but her jog is so nice (when she feels like it) it doesn’t seem to matter what I’m using. I currently do all my training “English”.

Never hurts to keep cross training and when competing, using some classes for warmup to the classes you are very good already.

Some have odd ideas of what training requires, maybe forget that training basics are good for all we may do, even the more outlandish looking ones when you are not sure what they are doing there.

There is plenty some love to compete in that I too go :eek:, but would never think to discourage someone from trying it, if that appeals to them, why would I?
Like barrel racing or the goose stepping gaited classes, but then, others think jumping is hairraising dangerous and kills horses and riders, who would want to go there with their horses?

OP, give it a try, your horse may just get into it and become good.
You don’t have to worry about the saddle now, only if you find yourself becoming very competitive and wanting to show at the higher levels, a long way from where you and your horse are now.

Good luck and don’t forget to have fun while learning new things, whatever those may be.

[TooMuchRebel]

@Rackonteur

This. Why do you want to show in a division where you are judged by the size of your saddle? If it fits your horse comfortably, nothing else matters unless you are slip-sliding all over it like a 5yo in a grown man’s reining saddle.
(Or a grown cowboy in a cross-country saddle!)

And why do you want a horse who, your words, is happy barrel racing to have to go back to being a peanut-rolling, pitty-pat, 4-beat “lope” WP horse? I thought they had gotten rid of all that crap a few years ago. Are they still doing it? When I was a kid WP was WJL, not peanut-rolling pitty-pat 4-beat not-lope.

I don’t really care about being judged on my saddle, but if I could avoid a penalty easily why not. If I did do WP, i don’t think I could ever make my horse 4 beat “lope”, it’s not natural. It’s essentially just a rolling walk haha.

She’s happy barrel racing, but she’s often also happy in her natural WP gaits. Her typical “go-to” when asked to move forward is a WP jog, unless she knows we’re gonna be doing more.

[TooMuchRebel]

@Palm Beach

With the explosion of the popularity of the ranch classes, especially at local levels, I’m wondering if there will be issues down the road with lack of entries in wp classes. In my area, wp was the big draw. Now the ranch division carries the shows with 10-30 entries and there are 3 entries in wp.

We don’t have many ranch classes around here, it’s mostly either “preppy” english shows with some “preppy” western classes added in, or you get speed events. Really no in-between. Which is kind of sad, she’d make a great working western class horse. But then again she’s very smart and I think would do well in anything. Of course, I may be biased, but hopefully I’ll be able to show people it’s not just a biased opinion! haha

[TooMuchRebel]

@Bluey

Never hurts to keep cross training and when competing, using some classes for warmup to the classes you are very good already.

Some have odd ideas of what training requires, maybe forget that training basics are good for all we may do, even the more outlandish looking ones when you are not sure what they are doing there.

There is plenty some love to compete in that I too go :eek:, but would never think to discourage someone from trying it, if that appeals to them, why would I?
Like barrel racing or the goose stepping gaited classes, but then, others think jumping is hairraising dangerous and kills horses and riders, who would want to go there with their horses?

OP, give it a try, your horse may just get into it and become good.
You don’t have to worry about the saddle now, only if you find yourself becoming very competitive and wanting to show at the higher levels, a long way from where you and your horse are now.

Good luck and don’t forget to have fun while learning new things, whatever those may be.

I love cross training. I honestly can’t remember the last time I only trained for a specific thing, except for maybe when I first got my mare and we did a lot of training on the barrel pattern. Not actually with barrel pattern set up, but teaching her to work a turn and build some muscle to be able to hold herself up. Ever since I’ve started cross training and diving into some other “disciplines”, I haven’t even thought about looking back. It keeps it interesting for both of us.

And thank you!

[merrygoround]

Too many people forget that horses go how we ride them. Focus on how you use yourself, and if the horse is listening, she will comply.

[beau159]

@findeight

Tough to get a horse to understand when it’s OK to open up the stride and lift the head to drive off the rear end and gooooo through the pattern looking for the timers then put the head down low and do the pitty pat steps nose to tail along the rail not daring to pass the horse ahead.

Actually, it’s not. They can be trained to understand when it is time to “go” and when it is time to do something else. They are smart. They can easily learn the difference.

Yes, I agree that most horses don’t have the breeding or talents to excel at a high level at both speed and showing. But that doesn’t mean you can’t teach the horse to do both, and understand what is expected of them.

I’ll throw Shotgun up as an example. At this show (among other placings) we took first in the Hunter Hack (okay there was only 2 of us in that class, but I was still proud!) and we took first in the Ranch horse (out of around 15) and would have tied for first in Pole Bending but we did tip one (I was still super proud of his personal best of 22.2 seconds). If I recall, we also placed in Western Pleasure that day. Regardless, my point is that he very much knows when it is time to run barrels or speed events, and he knows when we are going round the ring for a pleasure of pattern class. I know that he is not a “real” western pleasure horse and doesn’t have the gaits that would win at a breed show, but I do like to do it at the local level to keep him well-rounded.

Red does the same thing
Dexter learned to do the same thing last year.
And my last horse Beau knew how to do it.

It’s not tough to train them to know and understand the difference. I’ve been doing it for years.

[beau159]

@TooMuchRebel

What would I need to do to be able to get my horse to a point where she can do western pleasure again? She’s pleasure bred, shown a few times, but isn’t a “dead broke WP”. She’s broke in the riding sense, but not for WP. She has the natural gaits for it.

Right now I am training her to barrel race/game. She seems to enjoy it. We do a lot of cross training for conditioning.

My primary discipline is barrel racing. But I too enjoy to cross train my horses and I think it makes their minds better because of it. Having a well-trained horse has great benefits for all disciplines.

I have certain “tack” that I use, based on what we are doing, and I think that aids my horses in knowing the difference in what I am asking them to do. Maybe one day out of the week, I’ll ride in my English saddle in the arena and we’ll work on caveletti and low jumps and “english stuff”. Maybe the next day I put on their barrel racing gear and we do some barrel racing drills. Maybe the next day we ride out on the trail for exercise. Etc Etc. I usually start with a goal in mind for the day, on what I want to work on, based on what we have coming up on the schedule.

@TooMuchRebel

I’d like to compete WP every now and then, but not sure where I should start? I figure having her collect up and rate would be the easiest, and we’d only do W/J classes to start with. What other kind of conditioning/strength exercises could I do with her to build up her hind end to be able to “sit” and collect properly for the gaits?

I would certainly suggest taking some official WP lessons here and there. At least a good trainer can give you some pointers, guidance, and help you help your horse!

But as far as where to start, just start! It’s all about teaching themselves to travel collected, and to slowly build the strength over time to travel in that manner. Always train back-to-front. You want that head level, but you can’t just “train the head”. Get the body in order, and then the head will naturally fall into place.

@TooMuchRebel

Also, a little unrelated, but would I be penalized for using a saddle too large for myself? It’s my mothers, but it makes a lovely looking WP saddle. Obviously too big saddles throw you to a weird balance, but her jog is so nice (when she feels like it) it doesn’t seem to matter what I’m using.

I guess it just depends if it does indeed put your body into a bad position. It can sometimes make a person more “chair seated” if the seat size is too large.