So just watching the old clip on the Keeneland Auction from January and cannot but help notice the number of pregnant mares going for next to nothing-- like $1,000 or so. What happens to brood mares? Some of these had racing careers, some did not, some sold with the comment not fit for anything but mating, i.e. no racing. Also I feel a bit sad seeing some of the little yearlings also going for about the same amount. It is hard to imagine a comfortable future for horses that are barely above a price of being given away-- and thinking that stud fees surely eclipse the paltry amounts gained in sale. So what happens to brood mares? How long do they last in service, and do they get a nice retirement, or a more horrendous end?
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Before we get to the hyperbole at the end, your post contains a number of inaccuracies.
In the 100 or so Keeneland sales I’ve attended, I have never heard an announcement that a horse in the ring was “not fit for anything but mating”. They do not that. Ever. They do announce that broodmares that are not in foal at the time of sale are “suitable for mating” meaning that they have been checked by a vet pre-sale and there’s no reason they cannot be bred.
Assuming you meant January 2025, I looked up the Keeneland sale results. NO pregnant mares were sold for $1,000. 6 mares–out of 1209 horses catalogued for the sale–that had been bred, but were not in foal at the time of the sale, left the ring unsold for 1K or less. What happens to them when they don’t sell is that they go back to their owners. No stud fees were paid for these mares (TB stud are almost always due when the live foal stands and nurses.) The mares are, at that point, at no more risk than they were when they went to the sale.
Asking how long those mares “last in service” is like asking how long is a piece of string.
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I would like to have a discussion free of gratuitious comments and personal commentary.
- I commented on what I heard on the videos of the auction. This included statements that certain mares were only for mating. Whether they should say that or not, I have no idea. I am only reporting on what I heard.
- Prices-- I never said that the horses sold for an exact one thousand dollars. I said “or so” which is a modifieer. Many horses went for around that price tag-- some slightly more. My comment was on the low price point generally for many mares and many yearlings-- wondering what sort of future is in store when they are barely above a give away price, and a price that is very likely far below the stud fee that was paid for their creation. I was surprised in general at the low price points for some of these horses. That said, I do not follow Thoroughbred sales or auctions closely-- so I have no idea what the general pattern of prices are. I was just surprised to find them so low at this auction.
- As to what happens to the unsold mares-- yes obviously back to the owner who tried to sell them to begin with, but then what? That was the gravaman of the question. Do the mares simply live out their days on green fields or does the owner try to resell them in other auctions ,or put down, or sold into a slaughter pipelines?
- There must be statistics on how long most mares serve as brood mares. I would guess 10-15 years at most, but that is just a guess, and I am wondering what statistics say about how long mares are in general in this role. Yes, of course, there are individual variants, but there must also be some general expectation of how long a mare might be bred or up to what age.
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I would like to have a discussion that doesn’t include things that are untrue so it seems we are both doomed to disappointment.
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Your report is (again) incorrect. The words you think you heard have never been said in the history of Keeneland. The exact sentence the auctioneer says is: “This mare is being offered as a broodmare prospect only, and suitable for mating.” That does not mean she can’t be raced. What is does mean is that the seller is not guaranteeing her soundness for racing and has not put a set of xrays in the repository as proof. Many sellers of young mares don’t want to bother with the expense of xrays, so the mares sell as broodmare prospects. It has nothing to do with the ability of their new owners to race them.
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The mares that sell for very low prices are, generally speaking, those that have been bred but are not in foal at the time of sale. It is exceedingly unusual for an in-foal mare to sell at the price point you’re talking about and none did, at the sale you referenced.
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how can anyone answer that question but the mares’ owners?
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No one keep stats on that. There are so many variables that affect a mare’s broodmare career that length of time varies so tremendously.
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Why “must” there be?
What statistician is interviewing every thoroughbred breeder and tallying their numbers? Who is checking that the same mare isn’t counted twice if she changes hands? What data repository is in use? Which metrics get published? Who is funding all this?
Silly.
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I suppose it COULD be done. Stallion owners have to submit a report of mares bred, correct?
I’m not suggesting it needs to be done (or who would pay for it), just that I think I could do it myself in Excel if I had access to the bred-mares reports for the last oh, 20 years.
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Sure, it could be done. The Jockey Club tracks all sorts of things. But how would the information be useful, and to whom? Even if the average span of brood mares’ breeding careers was known, there are still too many variables for anyone to be able to draw viable conclusions from the information.
Some of the things that have an effect on a TB broodmare’s career:
breeding soundness, her pedigree, her race record, sire’s prominence, mare’s produce record, dam’s race record, dam’s produce record, 2nd dam’s produce record, owner’s wealth, proximity of appropriate stallions, proximity of good repro vets, illness, pasture accident, loss of foals to illness or accident, sale to new home, sale to new country, owner retires from breeding…and so on.
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Laurie, as usual you deserve kudos as a fantastic ambassador of the turf. You are more patient than me.
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If you are worried about horses being sold into the slaughter pipeline you are viewing the wrong auctions. See some local auctions (which aren’t televised) where lame and old geldings and mares go for less than a thousand dollars. There are many, many more Grade and Quarter horses going to slaughter than there are TBs.
The TB industry has had its bad actors, but TB organizations, owners, and breeders have really come together and are doing much more for after care now. They’ve made good progress.
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As a thoroughbred person who has accidentally been plopped into the standardbred world, it’s been eye-opening to see just how many standardbreds end up in the slaughter pipeline and how many thoroughbreds don’t anymore.
Where do those cheap mares end up? Often with people like me.
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The racing Thoroughbred industry is a multi billion dollar per year industry. Thus, the people who are invested in this in one way or another are interested in monetary flow, risk, gain, loss. This is usual for any large industry–this is not limited to Thoroughbred racing in the United States.
Statistics can be garned from analyzing various data and patterns to provide insight on particular questions. Data analysis can be qualitative, quantitative, or mixed. Qualitative data analysis yields descriptive rather than numerical analysis. Quantitative analysis provides information based on numerical analysis. A mixed approach would use both. There are various kinds of quantitative analysis available–it all depends on what it is desire to measure and analyze as to what data is considered and in what way.
This is a very brief overview regarding data analysis. You can find more detailed information easily by doing an internet search, for instance, but I am assuming from the content of your reply it is not something you are familiar with. For instance, representative sampling is a form of data analysis often used. It does not require gathering data (in whatever form) from every possible sample, but only a representational portion of that sample.
Because brood mares are necessary to the production of foals, and incur costs of feed, upkeep, as well as the cost of housing them, maintaining structures, paying people who look after them, in addition to any stud fee paid, an investment and expenditure on a brood mare may represent a significant financial investment and perhaps even risk depending on circumstances.
Therefore it seems very likely that those involved in the industry who are examining financial risk and return would have data gathered on this.
After a night’s sleep, I am rethinking how I stated this. I realized it might sound like I am trying to minimize concern for thoroughbreds because other breeds also have problems. That was not my intention.
What I was trying to convey is that because of STBs, I am watching these kill pens closely these days. I am really not seeing a lot of thoroughbreds. Any number of thoroughbreds is bad, but it is a relatively rare occurrence with them only representing a small percentage. These broodmares are not getting dumped by the hundreds anymore (like the STBs still are).
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General question. How many of the STBs are coming straight from racing or breeding farms vs. how many are older and are coming from the Amish after years on the road?
I don’t know the answer but undoubtedly the latter is why there is a never-ending stream of STBs heading slaughter.
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(Bolding mine.)
Those involved in the racing and breeding of TBs, on this thread, haven’t “gathered data on this” (I’m still not sure what data you are wanting) but if you believe it exists, you should contact the Jockey Club or the Keeneland sales.
I worked at White Horse Farms who bred STBs way, way WWAAAYY back in the day. (I was part of the dispersal of the herd the last 2 yrs) I was there in the late 1990’s and our proven mares did get to retire on our farm. Classic Cassette, Oxford Maryann to name a few as well as a few dozen more. Most were turned into nanny mares for weanie and yearlings when we would toss them out into the field. I personally found homes for 6 broodmares to be turned out to live out their days in a field as lawnmowers.
At the end of the dispersal, most of the mares were sold at auction (STB sales) in foal and went to other breeders. None of our mares directly went to places like New Holland for exampl while I was there, but I am sure it happens in the industry.
Unfortunately, a lot of them end up in the Amish community as daily drivers.
There are so many STBs due to the ability to do AI and not have the restriction of live cover the Jockey Club requires.
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@Sunflower Can you help us here by providing us with a link (and time stamp if the video is long) of where you heard this?
Having in the context of where you heard it might help the conversation.
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I was waiting for someone to go there. There is nothing wrong with a horse having a job and a purpose in life. The Ams ae not uniform across the states and most treat their buggy horses pretty darn good. They are also breeding some NICE standardbreds, like $40K yearling nice.
If you do see an old, NQR horse it usually has an old, NQR driver and both of them are happy to be going somewhere.
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I live around a lot of Amish and also do business with them. Most treat their horses well, but there are some that don’t. I had one tell me there are members of his community that he wouldn’t sell a horse to and another talk about taking one that, basically, needed an upgrade.
The problem is when the horses are no longer sound enough for what they need they frequently send them to auction, so large numbers of older, unsound STBs end up in the pens.
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I grew up in Amish country. I currently own a very fancy STB racehorse who was bred by an Amish race breeder. I also owned her dam, who he donated to a rehoming organization so she could get a good home as a riding horse.
But… when speaking with him, he also told me she was the first horse he didn’t send to “the knackers” when she stopped making money because she was his favorite.
I totally agree that there is nothing wrong with horses having jobs. But the Amish are a very large population of people who use horses for work and transportation; in such a large population, quality of care greatly varies in addition to the fact that it is still socially acceptable in their circles to “dump” anything not useful anymore.
So yeah, the Amish are a big part of why we have endless STBs ending up in sketchy places. Hopefully one day that will change like it has with a lot of other populations of horse people.
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