Ugh, I wish I could afford to hunt with Cheshire, and had the time. I did their hunt clinic a couple of years ago and got to go out with them (second flight) and it was SO MUCH FUN! And my horse loved it. I do hunt sometimes with a small farmer’s pack, but it ain’t the same.
1 Like
The fiscal requirements are less than eventing assuming you are a eventer who competes regularly. Around us in VA the annual dues are 1300 per year. That is fox hunting from Sept 1 until March 31. If you hunt once a week, that makes it inexpensive. I hunt two horses so it is really inexpensive.
I am not sure what time commitments you are speaking about. Typically it is about a five hour commitment from leaving the house to arriving back home. That is on par with doing a one day event.
I think most people who don’t hunt are not knowledgeable about hunting and are using images from movies as depicting what hunting really is. The hunts I have been part of are not just a collection of wealthy people. They are populated with teachers, nurses, etc.
1 Like
some of his horses, a small percentage, of course compete into their late teens. And I heard from WFP that MJ’s training schedule does not give horses time off like other Europeans, and he jumps much more often at height and cross country schools much more often(he has xc jumps on his beautiful property). WFP schools UL horses xc 4 or less times per year and he rarely jumps at height at home. Also WFP told me that MJ retires more horses at younger ages in comparison to other Europeans. Maybe WFP is misinformed. Or you are.
I have no motivation to make this an issue, one way or the other. Small potatoes.
It’s not that we do not understand what it takes to Fox hunt, it’s that we do not have the time or cannot justify the time versus money.
I currently show mostly unrecognized because I can at my level and in the area I live in. My plan for 2018 is 2 shows in May, one in June, one in Sep, and one in Oct. I also may do a recognized show in July since I can’t find an unrecognized one in that area. If Fairhill is doing the derbies again, I will do those. I will also likely do the winter jumper series, which is once a month Oct - Mar, $25/class (3 in a division).
Unrecognized is about $125, recognized is about $250, derbies are about $35/run (did 2 runs last time, so $70
So, unrecognized is a total of about $625, recognized is about $250, let’s say 2 Derbies, $140, and all 6 jumper shows is $450. So, over 12 months, I will spend about $1465. So basically, I need to double my show budget to both fox hunt and show - since showing is what I want to do.
If I only show recognized, I will show most likely once a month, May through October. At $250/show that’s $1500 instead of $875 (replacing only the horse trials, not the derbies or winter jumper series)
Then, I also need to find a hunt that hunts regularly on the weekends (no idea how easy that is) or take a day off of work to hunt. If you can hunt once a week, you can hunt about 33 times per season, which is roughly $39/hunt. I work at least one weekend a month, which brings the number of times I hunt down to 26 and the cost up to 50. Take another couple out due to weather and other commitments (such as the previously mentioned horse shows) and I’m down to probably closer to 15, which is about $87/hunt.
The hunts that I have looked to in my area will allow you to cap at $50/day but only once or twice, then you have to commit to joining the hunt at about $1000/hunt (or more - have yet to see less).
Now, lets look at the time constraints - I have to get my show clothes and tack clean, pack up the horse and go out in the cold all day to hunt. That’s not something I want to do once a week or so in the winter -keep in mind, in the summer, I only do this once a month. The jumper show I go to is “come as you are” and only once a month. I am also only out 3 hours at most (you know what time your division is so it’s easier to get there enough time to warm up but not to much time). I don’t have to clean tack or dress up, either.
So, every time I do the math for finances and time, it is not worth it to fox hunt. Keep in mind, I HAVE fox hunted with some nice, friendly hunts, it just isn’t worth my time/money to JOIN a hunt. If I could cap unlimited, I would as I could do that as time/money/my delicate adult ammy sensibilities allow.
Someone like Boyd Martin may be thinking the same thing since he’s A-riding the same horse for 5 hours instead of several he’s getting paid to train, B-he’s missing on opportunities to teach and earn money.
11 Likes
Thanks @Ajierene. That’s basically what I was going to say. Not to mention that so many pros and serious amateurs snowbird in Aiken or Ocala for a large portion of the hunting season.
I’ve capped with hunts in PA, VA, and TN and my experience is that they vary wildly in expectations and dues. The one in TN recently started doing a VERY good job of “recruiting” and becoming accessible to a larger mass of people. The one in PA… not so much…
11 Likes
And that’s why so many horses lack conditioning when they run international level courses. It’s far more likely, due to time constraints, that riders will work on dressage or show jumping than to get out and run and jump for hours.
2 Likes
Well, a couple of years ago I didn’t hunt past Dec the footing was so bad (no one did that year, not even Cheshire). This year my hunt hasn’t gone out since the week before Christmas. They may go out tomorrow, but the footing is terrible so I will stay home. So you really can’t count on keeping your horse fit through hunting, at least around here. And you don’t get your money back if the hunt can’t go out. (Not that I am running international level courses lol!)
7 Likes
They don’t really need to “run and jump for hours.” Most UL horses 20-30 years ago got fit just fine without hunting. I suspect what needs to happen today is walking. I’d bet a ton of money that not many people are putting daily hour long hacks on their horses on top of daily schooling and on top of gallop sets. I don’t hear riders talk about it, I don’t hear grooms talking about it and I don’t hear about working students talking about getting stuck doing it.
I just looked back at the last 3 USEA conventions and I don’t hear them talking about horse fitness either. In fact the sessions look a lot more rider centric than horse centric in general, but if you want to get advice on using pilates, yoga or martial arts for rider fitness then the USEA Convention looks like your kind of gig. Want to study horse fitness? Maybe not so much.
12 Likes
Except I’m pretty sure Boyd is a member of a hunt? I think there are more UL eventers that still hunt in some capacity than most realize. The bigger issues is that there aren’t many JR/YR kids that do,
For me, a hunt membership is about the same as what an overnight horse trials costs. And it’s a lot more fun than gallop sets in my hayfield.
1 Like
I just picked that name out of a hat. He may belong to Cheshire since he’s in that area - so insert your name of choice instead of his if it makes you feel better. You can also insert the name of a more up and coming type that really has to balance moving up the levels and earning money to keep from living in one the stalls they rent.
Maybe the point to be taken is that it’s hard to bring home a 4* win for reasons that Bruce did not include in his article. Perhaps for instance Buck is less ruthless than needed… (if so I’m sure his horses are quite happy not being 4* winners).
4 Likes
Yes, he hunts with Cheshire some before he leaves for Aiken, but it seems like it is more a social thing. What better way to meet and shmooze with the area wealthy horse owners?! Boyd’s success (IMO) is not only because he is an amazing rider but it also very good at marketing himself.
12 Likes
From the other side of the pond, here in the UK eventing is in good health. The biggest number of competitors is in BE100 and the importance of training amateurs to participate and enjoy themselves is well recognised by British Eventing, who provide easily accessible training with qualified instructors all year round. The season is packed with events and distance is small (compared to USA) so failure one day just means another go in a couple of weeks, possibly after some more training. We have multitudes of world-class riders, from many nations, jumping around from BE90 upwards so standards are consistently high and riders appreciate that small fractions of improvement make big differences in performance. The elite riders compete alongside the complete beginners and there is a culture of support. An Olympian will give advice if asked about a line or a fence and will think nothing of doing so. That provides a deep well of potential 4* winners. We are fortunate.
Hunting is used as early training for young eventers rather than a fittening exercise for established ones. 4 and 5 year olds will hunt a bit to find their feet. But then, the one horse amateur owner oftens hunts in the winter and then events in the summer on the same animal. It is just jumping, after all. Most worry more about that boring dressage thingy. We expect horses to be multitaskers.
One thing that British and Irish riders have always been good at is horse fitness, which probably is a horse culture based on hunting experience. When I see American riders at competitions I habitually do not expect them to make the time. That might be due to lack of fitness and lack of experience on varied terrain. So perhaps in this discussion should not be about foxhunting but rather about how to get horses fitter - hills are widely available - and time out of the arena.
Another observation from this side, dressage is important but you still need a horse that can gallop across country. That is still what wins an event. And modern 4* courses are stressing it more. Look at 2017 Badminton, Burghley.
14 Likes
WFP trash talking MJ? That’s professional. Sounds like jealousy rearing its ugly head.
originally you said he didn’t give them time off now you said he doesn’t give them as much time off. Does any person, anywhere have every horse they have compete into the teens? Does he perhaps retire horses early because he recognizes they do not have the talent to go on and ya know, doesn’t want to die or ease his time?
He does jump xc almost daily, but he jumps 2-5 fences after his school or fitness work. His property is such that he has fences scattered all over around his land beside his ring. He doesn’t go XC schooling for hrs like it is done in North America. It is a pop over a few obstacles to keep the horses brave.
if have no motivation to discuss why even bring it up. I have high respect for WFP and MJ. Both their programs have been very successful even if they are different. I find it however appalling WFP would trash MJ and his program.
This is actually what I remember more so about hunting and Bruce. He would often take a horse to its first horse trail at the Preliminary level, even after Novice (Pre-training we used to call it) was added. He would have hunted them as youngsters instead of competing in horse trials.
5 Likes
Not so long ago, many top pros started horses at prelim. But courses were not as technical then, and these are top riders. Not all of these riders fox hunted. They just schooled/trained much more before introducing a horse to competitions. These days, it is common to see pros starting horses at BN. I guess that they do so as the LL divisions are available and riders have recognized the value of competing green horses at an earlier time in their training.
Here in the northeast, we have more starter trials than we have historically. We often see pros at these starter trials, or their working students, competing green horses.
1 Like
Yeah, I hate it when I see a 4* rider on a Fernhill horse in my division :lol:!
Actually It doesn’t really bother me. There was a horse/rider preparing for the YEH championships at a little CT where I competed. I was quite happy to be best of the rest. Especially since I was directly after them in the dressage ring and I could hear the judge raving about the horse. When they had a rail in SJ I thought for an instant, hmmm, maybe we can beat them. Until I realized there was no way I was within 4 points of them in dressage. Which I wasn’t by a long shot!
6 Likes
Becky Holder comes to mind. 
3 Likes
A lot of the “non-trendy” riders do this stuff. They are not the ones that have their working students riding the horses 75% of the time. They also aren’t the ones that make the teams because they aren’t “trendy” or backed by big money with huge strings. They are they ones that are putting in the saddle time, not the working students. And they aren’t willing to sacrifice their horses’ welfare just for the team either (a la Clark and the Olympics and flying all over the world). They do right by their horses and don’t run them into the ground for their own gain.
I just went for an hour and half walk hack this past weekend with a 4* horse who has never been unsound in his life and is lovingly managed by his rider. The entire string and the babies get this at least once a week. Also long slow trots and easy canters mixed in with the gallops. The horse made time or had minimal time faults at 3* level in 2017.
9 Likes
Same! I capped with my local hunt in September when cost was significantly reduced (they do that every September to try to attract new members). I contemplated joining but the cost was too high to justify, given all the time I would have to take off work to make it worthwhile and the days I wouldn’t risk it due to bad footing. Instead I bought a cap package, which brings the capping fee down from $100 to $75ish. (Still a lot given that many days the hunting was not so great.) I used one and then my horse went lame so now I may be eating several hundred dollars on top of the cost of his surgery. 
I’m hoping they might let me use them next season, if he comes sound.
As far as time, my experience was that hunting was more time-consuming than I wanted it to be. I am near a fixture and will often see the trailers driving past hours after the hunt has ended, because people stay to socialize, even on weekdays. I’m pretty introverted so although of course I try to be friendly and gracious, I would rather just ride and then leave, but I’m afraid to be rude. Also, as the days get colder weekday hunts shift from morning to midday, so instead of just being a little late to work I would probably have to take a whole day off.
I really enjoyed doing something new with my horse (who I plan to event at the lower levels), riding across our beautiful country, and enjoying the hounds–but I’m not sure I will ever commit to joining a hunt due to time and money constraints.
1 Like
