Bua saddle for dressage

Hi all,

Haven’t been here in a while, but you all have been super helpful to me in the past (helped me pick my horse!) and good to share notes with. I have a gelding who is very hard to fit (pear-shaped, long defined withers, dippy back) and have been through numerous saddle fit struggles with him. Everything sits pommel-high on him because of how he’s shaped, and most saddles migrate forward because of his forward girth groove. We have been through literally years of saddle fitting appointment hell.

In the past I had a L&R and then a Stubben Tristan, and he’s been going in a Custom Icon Flight for the past few years that’s the best fit I’ve gotten but it’s never been quite right and needs to be reflocked constantly because his conformation causes the flocking in the back of the panels to compress rapidly. And I’m just done with it. So I decided to try a Bua and ordered a demo from Badlands Equine, which I think is the major (maybe only?) American dealer. I’ve only ridden in it twice so far, but so far I really like it for me - the balance seems much better for me than my Custom - and the design of it really seems to render his conformation quirks mostly moot.

I wasn’t able to find much dressage-specific commentary about this saddle online, so I thought I’d ask whether anyone here has tried one, or would like me to share my experiences about my demo. My horse and I are schooling 1st-2nd movements, max (after I bought him I had a kid and other responsibilities and our training has been a lot of two steps forward, one step back) but I hope eventually to get my bronze on him, and my trainer now is a gold medalist/USDF finals competitor, etc. with fancy horses and I’m hoping to get feedback from her too as well.

I’ll end this wall of text here. Let me know if you have any questions.

I have never seen or heard of the Bua Saddle so I googled it and it is intriguing. My one fear with saddles like this is, :“Will it turn under the horse’s belly if the horse becomes acrobatic?”

It does look like it would be very light weight which would save my arms hoisting it up on the tall horse.

I’d love to hear all about it.
Specifically:

  • How is the twist?
  • What kind of build do you have, and how do you feel the saddle accommodates your personal conformation?
  • Did your horse move better in it? Did he seem to like it more than your other saddles?

It took me a moment to place the Bua name, but I’ve actually handled one that an eventer friend has. Interesting concept…

My question about it for dressage is whether the cantilevered tree/seat construction interferes with more subtle use of the seat.

Curious to hear more about your impressions!

Regarding stability - I was surprised but it’s very very stable. The first ride in it my girth was too loose because it was borrowed (the billets are IMO too short and my Prolite was therefore too short) and I was in a hurry and it didn’t move laterally at all. I tried to get it to roll while mounted by weighting one foot and then the other and it did not roll. It DID slip forward and walk the saddle pad back, but the second time I rode in it I got the girth properly tightened and the forward slip was minimal. To be clear, most saddles creep forward on my guy due to his forward girth groove. I think I need a longer Prolite whether I keep this saddle or not. Putting a Thinline pad under it cancelled almost all of the forward movement on the second ride. Since the tree is dynamic I can see how on some horses it might “walk” a bit but overall I think the fact that it moves with the horse is a good thing.

It is SUPER light weight and yet has a tree so that in and of itself is a major plus to me. It’s not like my Custom is so heavy (it’s a monoflap so it’s also light for a traditional saddle) but all things being equal I think lighter is better.

The twist is wide. The one in the saddle I am demoing is the “narrow” version or dressage style, but I think most dressage riders would find it wide. If you need a very very narrow twist you might not like it, but I’m not the best judge because I am not that picky about twists and will ride in pretty much anything.

I am very very small - just under 5’2", 105#, 28 inch inseam, narrow hips. I can ride small ponies if that gives you an idea of how small I am. I found the saddle extremely comfortable for me. I have always ridden in saddles that are too big for me because otherwise no one else can use them, and am chronically fighting the stirrup bar position, which in my current saddle (17.5) is exacerbated when the flocking in the rear of the panels gets smushed down and the pommel starts pointing toward the sky between fitting apointments. The Bua is a 17.5, but since you can mess with the seat separately the dealer put a seat reducer in there (under the leather) and it fits me more like a 16.5. I find the balance very comfortable for me and that my leg is back where it should be instead of swinging toward the dashboard. It has two stirrup bars, one forward for jumping and one aft for dressage.

My horse is very stoic and does not express opinions about tack, so it’s tough to say how he personally felt about it. I did think his canter was bigger and more elevated, but it could just be that I wanted to think that. I’m going to get several more rides in while I have it on trial so we’ll see.

The cantilevered tree made no difference to me whatsoever and I felt no movement, but I have it ratcheted down all the way and may be too light to compress the tree at all in this configuration. We are not advanced enough to be using all the fancy “go” buttons, but I’ve ridden highly trained horses regularly in the past and don’t personally have objections to the feel of the saddle based on that experience either. My trainer is riding him in it this week and she’s very accomplished so I’ll be curious to see what she thinks of it.

I can see how the design could dampen subtle cues, but on the other hand I think traditional saddles (and the mountains of pads and shims often used with them) also do that. Like, if you drop your right ischium slightly, there is no way the horse is feeling exactly that through even the nicest custom dressage saddle - they are feeling whatever doing that does to the rigid structure of the saddle and the cue is translated by the saddle. So I think if a horse is used to a traditional saddle, he might need to relearn advanced cues if you switch saddles, but really it is the same problem in a different saddle dialect, if that makes sense.

My vet boards at my barn and she looked at my horse and the Bua before and after my ride and was very positive about it.

Cons: The billets are not jump saddle short, but I wish they were at least 2" longer on each side. The billets are swing and there isn’t a point billet or a way to install one (since there are no points) if you like those. The flaps are also short for dressage, which is not a problem for me but might be for others (but you can order longer flaps). The flap is also slightly forward compared to a lot of modern dressage saddles. The seat is not deep and the knee rolls are pretty conservative if you like knee rolls (I’m agnostic about knee rolls - like I said, I’ll ride in anything). If you are bigger than me the seat might travel vertically - I’ll have to get feedback from other riders at the barn who try it. It looks weird, but not really when you are sitting in it. The leather is nice, but does not have the scrumptious “OH MY GOD I’M SO LUXURIOUS AND EXPENSIVE” aura that my Custom has. Oh, and my best barn friend totally HATES the saddle although she hasn’t actually sat in it because it isn’t traditional and she’s skeptical of the science, so there’s that. I’m a scientist and I like innovation, but if you’re a traditionalist I’m guessing you’ll just hate this thing on sight.

I’m taking a lesson in it tomorrow so I can update after that.

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What is the textile portion of the saddle like? Does it seem durable, and easy to keep clean? Thanks for all the information

It’s a sort of thick meshy fabric, and it seems durable, and at any rate is extraordinarily easy to remove/machine wash/replace if necessary. You just unvelcro it at the front, slip it off the rear of the tree (I’m making it sound like it’s not secure but it is), and unzip the superior side (the side facing away from the horse’s back). You can remove the panel foams altogether and install shims in there yourself if you want. If you put them on the top of the foam (so between the panel foam and the zipper) then they will be on the side facing away from the horse and there won’t be bumps unless you put something huge in there. This is HUGELY appealing to me, since when my saddle needs reflocking I know where it needs more wool, but I don’t have the tools or the materials or the voodoo necessary to get it packed into there correctly. So basically if you ever play with shim pads, etc. you can kind of do the same thing, but in the saddle panels instead of using a shimmed pad (although you can also use shimmed pads). The one I have on demo has wool felt shims installed for my horse’s dippy back. It would be ridiculously easy to obtain wool felt and cut your own shims to fit as you can take the foams out and use them as templates to get a perfect fit.

I feel very positive about the saddle right now, but (a) I’ve only ridden in it twice so far and (b) it’s totally possible my trainer will hate it and have valid reasons I’m not seeing. I’ll need to alternate rides between it and my Custom (which was recently reflocked, so fits as well as it ever does) to see shortcomings I’m not seeing right now.

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I’d love for you to keep us updated several months down the road, OP. Specifically how long-term use changes or affect[ed] the horse’s back. IE does he show less soreness or more soreness down the road, that kind of thing.

I am very interested in the design but wonder about the execution. I have seen next to no non-testimonial feedback on this saddle, and haven’t had anyone I know try one.

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If I could get the money I would love to get one.

OP, during the sitting trot is the concussion on the rider’s seat and spine any less than with a regular treed saddle?

Right now I mostly avoid the sitting trot because of this concussion, I am desperately trying to avoid more damage to my spinal cord and brain (I have MS.) I am not talking about the concussion from the seat bones falling back into the saddle after being propelled into the air, as I am quite good at keeping my seat bones glued to the saddle at all times during the sitting trot. But, on a lot of horses, no matter how glued my seat bones are to the saddle seat, I STILL feel jarring during the sitting trot and that jarring irritates my back.

I have been trying to find out an answer to this question ever since I learned about the existence of BUA saddles, but I have not been able to find any information on this particular question. I would be extremely grateful if you could answer my question. IF the BUA saddle lessens this jarring I will probably start saving up my money to buy one.

Since it moves independently, I think BUA saddles would be more concussive. There’s, in theory, much more movement.

Have you tried a thinline saddle pad & a thinline seat saver? I’ve noticed it made a huge difference for me.

No, the design of the tree does the exact opposite if you loosen up the suspension and allow it to work. The tree is actually quite stiff; I know you are imagining something that just squishes down easily and then bounces, but it is actually difficult to compress. To ratchet down the suspension you need to put it on a stand or some firm surface and then press down on the seat really hard while working the adjustment. Or you can do it from the saddle. It is stiff enough that I do not weigh enough to adjust the suspension while mounted. I don’t personally notice any bounce in the seat, but I have it on the stiffest setting and I am very light. The only way to really know if it will work for you is to test one. If you are anywhere near Portland, Oregon you’re welcome to come look at the one that I have on demo. I should have it for the next week and a half or so. (No, I am not getting paid for any of this.)

Don’t get me wrong, this saddle is different enough that I can see it just not working for people. And ultimately it might not work out for me. But I don’t think it would not work for the reasons that people tend to think that would not work. When I was doing my research I ended up joining the Facebook group for #twittereventing, which is mostly eventers in the UK, and there are a number of folks there who have either tried one or own one. It isn’t a bad resource if you are serious about looking into one.

Thank you for the response about the fabric! I do hope you will keep updating as your trial of this saddle progresses.

OK, so my trainer and her assistant have both sat in the saddle. Neither of them likes it, too much bounce, especially on my gelding who has a very bouncy trot that is very difficult and not terribly fun to sit at the best of times. They felt like they were fighting for position and were too unstable. The seat is also reduced down to my size (16.5) which doesn’t give them enough room to move. We got video during my lesson today and there is definitely travel up and down when I both post and sit the trot. It probably isn’t helping me sit the trot. On the other hand, the movement doesn’t bother me, I don’t particularly notice it, again maybe because I don’t displace it much, maybe because my gelding is so bouncy to begin with, maybe because I really want it to work. The movement is not concussive, but rather shock-absorbing, but how you feel about it will depend on how much movement you can tolerate really.

We weren’t sure if the issues that bubbled up (my leg going forward while sitting, etc.) were worse than they are in my existing saddle because the same things happen in my Custom, partly because I’m working so hard to sit (I could certainly be more fit) and partly because the stirrups hang in front of my leg in that saddle. I am way happier in my Custom when I drop my stirrups and that seems wrong somehow. I should be able to use my stirrups. The Bua also moved forward again during my ride, but so does my Custom, which was just reflocked like two weeks ago. I am going to have to do some rides where I swap saddles to compare them.

Points in favor are that it fits him better than anything else I’ve put on him (largely because the structure of it renders his conformational issues mostly moot) and being able to mess around with the panels and seat myself is glorious. The lack of tree points means there is nothing to impede shoulder movement and it weighs basically nothing. My trainer wants to try it on one of her horses just for funsies and I bet it will fit. I’m going to have my husband try to ratchet it down tighter because it’s very hard to compress and even putting about three-quarters of my body weight on it upside down on a table (the Bua site has a video showing how the suspension is adjusted) I don’t think I have it down all the way. The jury is still out but the verdict is yes, it bounces and especially when I sit the trot, not to the extent that it’s tossing me into the air, but I’m not sure how I feel about that. If I am strong enough, I can see how it might even be beneficial in a way, if I can recycle that energy (which is what we’re trying to do, right) and it minimizes impact on the horse’s back, maybe that is something I am willing to work with since sitting trot it hard on them as it is on us. Or maybe I’m just so sick of trying to find something that works that I’m willing to sit in pretty much anything.

I have this saddle for a couple of weeks so I’ll keep you posted.

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Thought I’d come back and update this, for anyone who is looking for info online and stumbles across this page. I decided to buy the Bua - for me, the good points outweigh the less-than-optimal, with the major point in its favor being that it fits my gelding better than anything else I’ve ever tried. It doesn’t slip, the sweat marks are nice and even, and there don’t seem to be any weird pressure points. I like that I can make it fit me by adjusting the seat size and angle, but can make a couple of simple, quick changes and make it suitable for a larger rider than me. I can shim/adjust the panels myself without calling a fitter, and the thing only weighs about 10 pounds with leather and irons. It’s absolutely glorious to ride in with the suspension open when hacking out, and I’ve gotten proficient at ratcheting the seat back down while mounted so making those changes is quick and easy.

I’m also hanging onto my Custom Icon Flight for now, but the Bua is the saddle I prefer to ride in.

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So happy I found this thread! I’ve been thinking of the Bua Saddles for a while and so far I’ve seen good things (not a lot of info out there sadly). I have two horses and have been looking for a solution like the Bua Saddle for a while. How are you still liking it? I’m down in Wilsonville so pretty close :slight_smile:
Thanks!
Clio

I still like it. It’s the saddle I always ride in. It fits me, my position is good in it, it’s ridiculously comfortable, and it fits my challenging-to-fit horse. Everyone else who rides my horse (trainer, assistant, and friend) uses the Custom either for size reasons (the seat reducer in the Bua makes it too small for everyone but me) or because they hate technology. :slight_smile: I hadn’t intended to have two saddles but ultimately I didn’t want to give this one up. I can see why, due to the suspension, they would not be everyone’s (or even most dressage riders’) cups of tea. But it works very well for me and my gelding, especially now that I am used to it. I can go back and forth between this saddle and my Custom without any trouble.

I would not recommend one if you need a lot of help sitting the trot or prefer being more held in position. It’s definitely shallower than modern dressage saddles tend to be, the flap is more forward (even the dressage flap), and is clearly designed first for jumping and secondarily for flat work. But it works for me. I board very near Wilsonville, so if you’re interested you’re welcome to come by and take a look at it.

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I’ve had a BUA for a little over a year now. I am an eventing rider so really not fancy dressage stuff, but I love this saddle. I have ridden some pretty challenging horses in it and the security of the seat is a lifesaver. As mentioned the billets are shorter than a traditional mono flap so you might need a slightly longer girth than you might otherwise use, and the depth of the seat is more towards that of a general purpose saddle (not as deep as a dressage saddle, not as flat as a hunter/jumper style pancake).

In the year+ that I have had the saddle it is overall holding up very well. All of the leather components clean up like new, and the tree is solid. The fabric covering the panels does have one small rip I recently noticed. Nothing that interferes with the saddle in away way (safety or otherwise), and to replace the fabric is very cheap and easy through the website.

I’ve also consistently riddden a variety of horses in the saddle, including three thoroughbreds, a quarter horse, and a rhinelander. It has fit all of them very nicely. I do like the Total Saddle Fit stretchtec girth with the saddle as I feel it fits the forward girth groove but does not pull the saddle forward at all. I also tend more towards using a non-slip saddle pad with the saddle.

I hope this is helpful to those thinking about the BUA! Marlene Moss at Badlands Equine is very helpful and does offer trials.

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Just seeing this thread . . . interesting. How would they fit a short backed hony? Are there shorter panels? What are the panels made of? I can’t seem to find that on their website. How does the leather wear?

Badlands equine website got hacked but she’s working on it and is active on Facebook. She nicely replied to my email on trying to fit my Cushing’s gelding.

I tried one this week and neither Pony nor I liked it. The transition from seat to flap didn’t suit me, I didn’t find the seat comfortable, and Pony didn’t really want to go forward.

It was weird because she was very relaxed just standing around with it on, but forward was a no-go.

Kudos to Marleen, though. She was very helpful and responsive.

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