Generally I don’t do clinics with my horse. I find I learn better by audit. I can make notes and usually auditors have a chance to ask questions. Best clinic I have watched lately was Ty Evens Mule Training. But only 8 handlers so everyone got attention. Since I was the only auditor, I got to hold his mule when he dismount Ed to help someone. I learned a ton and had fun! All for $20. Nice mule too.
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I guess I feel where you’re coming from as far as the disappointment.
I went to an equine clinician – I’d gotten all her books, all her videos, and was so dang excited to work with her live. There was an audit option and a participant option, so I chose the latter and paid a huge premium to bring my own horse.
At the end of the clinic, I was terribly disappointed. We actually worked with my horse for, I dunno, 30 min the whole clinic? The rest of the time he stood in his pen, and we humans all worked with each other on exercises (they were all handling and timing things) – in other words, the auditors that paid a fraction of what I did had the exact same experience. And frankly most of the time we sat around a circle and had a tupperware party for her materials (videos, books).
Anyway, it’s not like it ruined my life. Just really disappointing when you have such high hopes.
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To be honest many of these clinicians are how we got to this place. They made their bed by promising miracles. Not that Buck B was one of them but he has reaped their “benefits” both positive and negative.
I also will stick with his books and videos.
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I audited one of his clinics in 2019 as I was trying to screw up the courage to start my 4 year old after a terrible experience with the previous horse I’d tried to start (I’d started others before, but this experience shook me). It was half colt starting and half the Horsemanship 1 the OP attended. I agree to being underwhelmed by the Horsemanship. There was a brilliant young rider there, and he gave her lots of instruction and used her as an example. OTOH, I noticed that a couple people were completely ignored, and I bet they felt ripped off. I definitely wouldn’t pay that kind of money to ride in a large group.
Watching the colt starting sessions, and watching Buck work with his own and a few of the clinic horses though, was invaluable to me. There is no way I would take one of mine to a clinic (all the colts were turned loose together in the arena with their saddles on; it got kind of western, and I would have had an aneurysm if my mare had been in there), but gained a ton from watching it, and for a fraction of the cost.
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Eons ago I attended a clinic with someone I do not remember. There was kid beginners and experienced adults in the same clinic. I don’t remember what I learned but I do remember being really impressed that this clinician took the same amount of time with everyone and was able to switch gears on the run from the kid who was scared to canter and in a western saddle to the adult who was working on transitions. I so wish I could remember who it was. I think he was an eventer. He probably burned out as a clinician pretty quickly. LOL
I also remember a dressage clinic where I though mmm this guy is pretty western! He was also surprisingly good with all levels but not as enthusiastic as the above mentioned clinician.
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Some people who are good with horses just aren’t good with people. I would be mad about this, thanks for the heads up for others to not waste their $$
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Oh geez. At that point it’d be hard not to keep my mouth shut.
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Actually, BB has always been… blunt. Never hides he hates solving problems then sending them home knowing they don’t really have the experience to repeat the lesson at home, don’t have time for daily sessions or have no intention of following through. He’s no handholder out to solve problems for those scared of their horses wanting an instant cure and that, unfortunately, is who attends his clinics.
Gallop Girl is NOT one of those but got stuck with the fallout. Perhaps she can still use his videos or articles for hints. Or find a lesser known, younger, still passionate clinician. We all know the stuff can be effective and helpful without the marketing and celebrity.
IMO MR and PP set the ball rolling targeting middle aged ladies afraid to really ride and work their horses. Sideshow hucksters complete with embarrassing middle aged groupies following them from show to show. “Instant makeovers” of “ untouched” horses. Instant gratification anybody can do after watching a clinic. And for those too scared to ride, we have games and majikal, speshul tools and toys so they dont have to ride to feel they have accomplished anything.
Seems what the market wants these days, God forbid having to work over time for it.
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This is how I felt about the Ray Hunt clinic I participated in. I was not merely disappointed, I was appalled. Every time his name is mentioned as the be all and end all of horsemanship, I think back to my experience.
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Wholeheartedly agree. But don’t forget Lyons in all of this. Although he may not of set that same target audience, he certainly pioneered the pay for levels philosophy.
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Sorry you had such a lackluster experience, OP.
I have audited this same clinic (Horsemanship 1?) and I was also underwhelmed. This was a few years ago (3 or 4) but from what I remember Buck had brought a different horse than he typically did. He told us he had this horse well broke but then she had sat in a field for 2 years but he pulled her up for this clinic. We watched him back her up in hand along the full length of a very large arena. He didn’t talk much during this time but what he did explain was she wasn’t moving the right foot backwards when asked and not quick enough.
Honestly I was appalled. It sure seemed to me that the mare was trying, but was obviously a little rusty. At one point she was rearing up, frustrated, And I seriously thought she was going to flip over the arena fence. Me and my friend were sitting right in the front row and the mare reared up right in front of us and we even stood up to get out of the way if needed. I will never forget the look of complete stress and frustration on that horse’s face. Edited to add: the rear occurred not at the beginning of the exercise but towards the end after she had already been backed around most of the arena.
And the rest of the clinic was very much like the OP said. Lots of walking circles and very little instruction. Lots of trash talking English riders.
I absolutely think he is a great horseman and I definitely do use a few of his techniques. But I would never ride in a clinic of his.
I will recommend another clinician named Jim Hicks. He comes from a horsemanship background from Ray Hunt but it’s also a fairly successful dressage rider and silver medalist. He is very down to earth and the clinics are more private or at least the ones I did. I totally recommend him for anyone.
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I saw two of the first and second year he was on the road and he was then appallingly ignorant of how to teach or the technical parts of riding horses.
The original seat of the pants, horses will do as told cowboy, not realizing a horse is not using himself properly or seemed to even know about leads.
At least those that have a competition background had to learn something, if they were to do more than be an also ran.
I assume he had learned some since, so many kiss the ground he walks on. 
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Ugh.
So frustrating, and yet apparently not uncommon. I am astonished by how many people flock to these “Horsemen “– who may be horsemen in terms of effectiveness at training horses, but who are not “teachers“ or “clinicians“, can’t (or won’t) effectively teach riders, and are literally just in it for the money.
$750 for this clinic? 35 riders per session who get zero attention?
IMO, this just smacks of unbridled greed.
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I think it just shows that no one is perfect. Not everyone is a great teacher and anyone can make a mistake or have a bad day. Hero worshipping isn’t a great thing to do.
I bet Buck would find greater joy just training a few horses up. Maybe for resell. I don’t know his financial situation of course. But it does seem like there is some burnout.
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I’m still trying to figure out how big the arena must have been to have 35 people riding in a clinic at once.
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John Lyons’ has “levels”? I don’t ever recall that. I do remember him saying to use what works for you, and not being hardline about using his “insert product here”, but I never really paid that close attention, other than reading the odd useful advice article in one or two of the western magazines. Found his videos useful too.
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Gee 35 people at $250 a day. That is almost $9k a day. Olympic riders don’t even charge that much. For that kind of money, even though it is contrary to my nature, I could put on my Susie Sunshine cap and actually teach people. I also think with those NH guys you get more out of auditing. I am gobsmacked what some of them charge who have never really trained a horse to do much and have very few credentials. I am not saying BB is one of them.
If you are burned out - then quit teaching people you don’t want to teach.
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He was the originator of the trainer certification programs. People spent many dollars to become certified. I know two people that spent tens of thousands in the early to mid nineties- sometimes attending clinics where they were never even taught by Lyons himself. I do think his methods are sound and as I said before he wasn’t targeting the same demographic as Parelli, Roberts et al, but they all emulated his program for financial success.
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I audited a clinic with Ray Hunt years ago. There were about 20 riders there, and it was most confusing. He had them all riding together, some going one way, the rest going opposite direction and told to pass inside then outside. There were unequal numbers going different speeds and it was chaos for at least 30 minutes with no comments or explanation, then he told them to stop and that was that. No discussion, and I never found out what that was about. Then there was colt starting 2 at a time, and I never saw RH actually teaching, he just watched. I certainly didn’t learn anything, and was really glad I hadn’t paid to participate. Maybe I missed something of the purpose of the clinic?
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I watched one of his clinics, didn’t take part, it was going on where I board my horse. I thought it seemed pretty repititious and tedious.
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