Building from bare land-- from the beginning (almost) please?

[mvp]

I have found a piece of land on which I want to build a barn and house. I can/have looked at zoning and looked into the cost of bringing utilities there. Water will come from a well and sewer will be by septic.

And so I have questions about doing my due diligence before purchase.

If I don’t know where I want to put the buildings yet, how to I know where I want the leach field to me… so that I can determine the location of the perc test as part of the purchase agreement?

I’ll have other questions, too. But I see plenty of people buying lots years before they build, so someone out there must know how to answer my question. Could you all give me a clue? All our welcome! Thanks.

[ToTheNines]

I bought my farm as raw land in 1993. Locate your house as far away from existing or potential neighbors as possible. Start in the middle of your property and work outward for potential locations.

[clanter]

To get a rough idea before investing time and money in testing, dig below the top few inches of topsoil (loam) to the lighter soil beneath. If you can take a handful of the damp subsoil and roll it into a thin, flat shape or worm shape that holds together, and it had a sticky firm texture, the soil has a high clay content and will probably fail a standard perc test.

http://buildingadvisor.com/buying-land/septic-systems/soil-and-perc-testing/

[poltroon]

Think about how water flows over the property and where the wind blows and that will also be of help. For the perc testing, I’d call them up and start asking questions … often they have a really good idea of what will perc and what will not in an area, and they may have a better idea than you of where is going to be a good place to test.

You might bring a builder in to give suggestions about the site. Don’t forget to include the cost of any roads or driveways. Those suckers are expensive! Oh, and verify that you can get acceptable internet at the property.

[js]

I’d bring in an engineer or builder that is well known and can answer your questions after they see your property and your plans for where you want structures to go.

With all the houses we’ve had that had septic systems, they were usually fairly close to the house, like one or two hundred feet away give or take. No special zoning or restrictions were in these particular areas though. The well for the house was same, just a few feet away (maybe 100) but on the opposite side of the house from the septic.

You’ll need to get someone out that drills wells and have them check to see where the best location for water is.

It’s best to consult professionals to ensure things are done correctly from the start.

[Marla_100]

^^^^^^^^^ js said it all. Good builders can usually guide you here or a good civil engineer. If you want to do some initial
investigation, pull up the USGS Topo Map and see the land elevation. The maps will give you a good idea of the natural slope, if any and where water will tend to flow to.

[2DogsFarm]

DEFINITELY not DIY projects.
Get professionals - excavators, septic installers, well pros, etc - to give you estimates (generally free), guidance & information.

I moved from the Big City to a place with acreage & existing house.
Former owner - for whatever reason - had breached the old septic tank so it failed the perc test.
Sales contract included a new septic system, installed at Seller’s expense.
If this clause had not been included, CityGirl me would have never known what the cost of a new septic was.

The contractor who had the prepaid contract for the work was also an excavator & gave me great information on where to locate my barn & why.
He ended up laying the foundation for the barn & attached indoor.
Then came back once structures were up to put down the stonedust aisle & stall floors & bring in 2" of sand for the indoor. And referred me to a plumber who installed the frostfree hydrant in the barn, tieing the line in from the house.
Plumber was the son of a friend of his who did the work as a side job, saving me $$.
13yrs later no complaints or problems with any of it.

Also (literally) walked me through obtaining variances for the barn/indoor & later helped me get a permit to add a driveway. < This after Highway Dept originally turned down my request. He must have been connected, as they called me a week later & said to come & pick up my permit.

Over the years he has done additional work here for me.
Always fairly priced & well executed.
In return, I have referred people to him for jobs they needed done.

[mvp]

@poltroon

Think about how water flows over the property and where the wind blows and that will also be of help. For the perc testing, I’d call them up and start asking questions … often they have a really good idea of what will perc and what will not in an area, and they may have a better idea than you of where is going to be a good place to test.

You might bring a builder in to give suggestions about the site. Don’t forget to include the cost of any roads or driveways. Those suckers are expensive! Oh, and verify that you can get acceptable internet at the property.

So the right way to do this is to find the builder and well-digger first, even before I have chosen the land?

I can call the county’s Department of Health and Environmental Control. (Did that for another question I had about ground water; they were very helpful). And I have looked at a GIS map with various “layers” of information put on it, including topographical contour lines. I have walked around on it once. Not sure I know enough to pull the trigger.

[mvp]

@Marla 100

^^^^^^^^^ js said it all. Good builders can usually guide you here or a good civil engineer. If you want to do some initial
investigation, pull up the USGS Topo Map and see the land elevation. The maps will give you a good idea of the natural slope, if any and where water will tend to flow to.

On that note. I have looked at the 10’ and 5’ contour maps and walked around on it. It seems “flat enough for government work” to me. But I need a builder to help me interpret what these elevation differences will mean?

[Pocket_Pony]

When we bought bare land we had it perc-ed as part of our PPE. The guy who did the test picked the site . . . I’m guessing because with his engineering background and history of living and working in the area that he knew the different soil types, could pick out different soil types/elevations/appropriate sites on the property and use his professional experience to suggest the correct places.

Hire professionals. Let them do their work.

Hire the perc-testing or septic guy to come out and do the test and see what he says about the best way to place the septic. For some properties there may be only one obvious solution for a simple system that does not require a lot of engineering.

Look at the environment around you, or go on Google earth for a different vantage point. Many times it is clear by the flora or drainage patterns where the water goes. Keep your house and barn away from there.

Hire someone who does dousing to come out to the property and see where will be the best place for a well. It sounds like a bunch of hoo-ha, but I’ve known multiple people who have used dousers and swear by them (even when the traditional well-driller thought he had the best spot).

You don’t need a builder per se to help you at this point, but a soils engineer might be a good person to consult with so you have an idea of what kind of soil you have, where might be good building spots, if you need to do any leveling or filling in order to create better options, etc.

And know that it will cost more to build than to buy.

[DQ_Foxhunter]

When we built because we had to clear land the first person we talked to ( prepurchase) was a land guy!
we asked his opinion about the land before we made an offer.
Then we talked to a builder whose houses we liked about possible locations for the house.
Then we talked to the well guy, only then did we make an offer.
Our experience was great, and we are very happy, so ask around and find good people to do the work.

[mvp]

@DQ Foxhunter

When we built because we had to clear land the first person we talked to ( prepurchase) was a land guy!
we asked his opinion about the land before we made an offer.
Then we talked to a builder whose houses we liked about possible locations for the house.
Then we talked to the well guy, only then did we make an offer.
Our experience was great, and we are very happy, so ask around and find good people to do the work.

Thank you. That gives me some experts to ask so that I can get a real sense of costs.

[Manahmanah]

As the others have said get an engineer out BEFORE you buy the property.

[mvp]

@ DQ Foxhunter. So the “land guy” was someone who was a pro at clearing and seeding/sprigging?

And the engineer is someone who understands soils and drainage? I mean, which branch of engineering?

[ShotenStar]

We bought bare land 30 years ago. We (and the bank) insisted the land perc to county standards and that the well was installed and tested clean / potable before the contract went through and the loan was approved. Without the approved perc test and well, land here is unbuildable.

We then ‘lived’ with the land for a year while we cleared the scrubby parts, established pasture, and walked and talked through where the house, barn, arena, and driveways would be located. I would say we got about 90% of it ‘right’. There are some things I would change, knowing what I know now, but they are small-ish things – where one fenceline runs, where some trees were planted, the arrangement of stalls in the barn.

We drew ourselves lots of diagrams and set out stakes indicating where things would go. And measured distances between buildings and lot lines to be sure we conformed to all the county building regs. We talked to several builders (both barn and house), as well as the County permits people. Each and everyone of them offered good ideas and recommendations along the way.

This is not a project for the faint of heart. The closest I ever came to divorce was the day 5,000 linear feet of split rail fencing was delivered - the look on Husband Person’s face! We had talked about this and agreed on how much to order, but the sight of a flatbed loaded with posts and rails just stunned his little heart …

star

[fourfillies]

Great advise from all. Insist on the seller putting in the well or discounting the price accordingly. Likewise the perc. Without these you are buying farmland, not a building lot. And check and recheck the zoning. An error there likewise can be an expensive lesson. If you can talk to the neighbors. Unless you are buying in an ag district there is often a reason why parcels aren’t already improved and sold. Your typical realtor could be way out of their depth, pardon the well and perc pun, Good luck, I second not for the faint of heart. My near divorce was the moment my suburbanite DH realized what having a drain field REALLY meant. And, don’t get backed down. These are the same things any buyer should be asking.

[mvp]

The story is that the developer bought at the height of the market and has since run out of money. He wants the parcels sold. Two others have bought and built on nearby lot in the last year/18 months. I have spoken to one of those neighbors and the other neighbor’s builder.

I think the land is well-priced for what/where it is and I know I’ll have to pay to drill a well and create a septic system (BTW, no idea what those cost… and are they figured into the price per square foot of a house or barn?). But I was/am mostly worried about water flow and quality if no well yet exists.

[js]

Putting in wells and septic systems is expensive, no they are not figured into the cost of a house or barn. They are separate expenses that you will likely be paying out of pocket. Both will cost you several thousand dollars each. Just having the leach field redone on our new house cost the sellers $3700.

building from scratch it is much more expensive then buying a place already built.

[ToTheNines]

When I bought my land, I asked the neighbors about wells. Also, you can call a local well drilling company. I called one recently and asked about a second well on my land. They had a map of all wells drilled recently (not sure if just them or everyone). The guy told me over the phone all about local wells, depths, costs, etc. The estimate here was $15,000 for about 450 feet.

[Bianca_Castafiore]

@fourfillies

Great advise from all. Insist on the seller putting in the well or discounting the price accordingly. Likewise the perc. Without these you are buying farmland, not a building lot. And check and recheck the zoning. An error there likewise can be an expensive lesson. If you can talk to the neighbors. Unless you are buying in an ag district there is often a reason why parcels aren’t already improved and sold. Your typical realtor could be way out of their depth, pardon the well and perc pun, Good luck, I second not for the faint of heart. My near divorce was the moment my suburbanite DH realized what having a drain field REALLY meant. And, don’t get backed down. These are the same things any buyer should be asking.

ditto ditto asking the seller to put in the well…if you’re not going to have good water you’ll be screwed.

5k for each well and septic sounds cheap to me…the cost if the well will depend in how deep they have to drill. cost of septic will depend on type of system.

id guess around 30k for both would be average.