Want to build muscle on a 17-year old that hasn’t been ridden in two years. I’ll be taking it slow and lunging the horse. Have heard great things about the chambon provided it isn’t tightened too much. Have also heard good things about the Vienna sliding reins. Any preferences and why? TIA
Guessing you want to build the topline?
If so, and you can get the horse working over his back without gimmicks, why not do that?
I wouldn’t lunge a 17 year old that hasn’t been ridden in years, maybe once to see if there were bucks lurking, but if at all possible, why not ride. I’d be concerned about aged joints on a small circle. I sure wouldn’t introduce gimmicks for quite a while.
I’d suggest starting with hand walking, and then graduating to walking under saddle and avoid lunging unless absolutely necessary in this case.
YMMV
Personally I prefer lunging when starting to build topline. But I do not do it on a small circle, I prefer to work in a large, generous circles and straight lines, this requires the lungeing person to walk small circles and straight lines too.
In order to build topline correctly, the horse must keep his head low but must engage his feet. So a lunge whip must be used to keep the hindfeet active, and some kind of gadget to take care of the head. Both chambon and sliding reins are useful, but the simplest gadget is this lungeing rope, I have one I bought for my horse but it is a very simple rope you can manufacture yourself with a piece of rope, I made one for my pony. I don’t know its correct name, each seller gives it a different name. Around here is known as the Priest rope.
http://www.classicdressage.com/38/products/lunge-aid.aspx
If lungeing with any other purpose I wouldn’t use any kind of gadgets, but you cannot start building muscle on a back adding your weight from day one, IMO.
neither, really. the horse doesn’t have the muscle to carry himself anyways.
No side reins for several weeks than just simple straight side reins. NOT under the legs, they work like draw reins.
I don’t keep the head low, why? you want the horse to be in balance and lift the shoulder. Nose up and out of the vertical.
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In order to build topline correctly, the horse must keep his head low but must engage his feet. …[/QUOTE]
I don’t know about this ^^. I believe to build the topline the horse has to be stretched over his back with his haunches engaged. He can have his head low and be scrambling with his feet and just be on the forehand.
Neither. I personally don’t like gadgets that set the head (although I do understand how side reins can be tactfully used in certain very specific situations). Lunging itself can be quite hard on aged horses, especially aged and unfit ones. Handwalking is a good place to start, especially if you can add in strength-building groundwork exercises. Ponying is also good. Riding out is a fantastic way of building strength back up in a horse. Lunging does have a place in reconditioning the horse, but hold off until there’s more fitness, and don’t bother with auxiliary equipment.
Go looking for hills, but watch the downhills.
Can you long-line and then go ground drive out and about–looking for hills/terrain?
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neither, really. the horse doesn’t have the muscle to carry himself anyways.
No side reins for several weeks than just simple straight side reins. NOT under the legs, they work like draw reins.
I don’t keep the head low, why? you want the horse to be in balance and lift the shoulder. Nose up and out of the vertical.[/QUOTE]
Yep. Agreed.
It’s one thing if the horse is very inverted and hollow - then you want the head lowER as part of the overall improvement of how the horse uses itself. But a horse needs to learn to carry itself, and the more time I spend shaping muscles to help a horse lift in front, the less I see the point of asking a horse to carry its head low.
Building muscle is all about doing good work, and using good diet, and putting a lot of time into it - muscle and fitness are a slow journey. Gadgets won’t speed it up.
Is this a horse that has been turned out in a large pasture with company, or one who spends 20 +/- hours a day in a stall?
For the former, I would suggest longeing with loosely set Vienna reins initially, tightening them down gradually. For the latter I would saddle up and start walking,gradually adding in hill work. There really is no reason to stay off his back unless you are an uncoordinated, weak rider, who lolls in the saddle. Expect it to take months to totally recondition.
Wow! Thanks for all the responses. I probably should have given some more background information. He’s an appendix, did a few eventing shows for 1 1/2 years, did dressage and then some jumping. He’s turned out every day, some days in a very large pen and other days in a pasture. It is the topline I want to build as well as overall muscle. He looks great and doesn’t look his age. I’m either lunging him in a 60-foot round pen or an arena. The property owner doesn’t want lunging in the arena if there’s someone riding in it. We’ve started slow, 10 minutes of walk and trot, then built up to 20 minutes walk-trot. I started using a chambon as it lowers the neck/head without pulling him back, which the sliding reins would do. The chambon is hardly engaged. He’s pushing with his haunches at the walk and trot. I just started with walk/trot/canter with lots of transitions and decreased my time to 10 minutes again to allow him to adjust. I’m ready to start adding more time. He just had a chiropractic adjustment, is on Cosequin as he’s a tiny bit off, but not enough to inject hocks, etc. according to the vet. I ride my horse and this one is my daughter’s, who’s working a lot. We want to keep him in shape and she’s actively looking for a new dressage trainer, so she’ll start riding again. In the meantime, she asked me to lunge. I do better with horses that are on the cold side and he’s a little sensitive, so I’m not overly anxious to ride him. We’re both really picky about who gets on our horses and unfortunately we’re not a dressage barn. Chambon vs sliding reins??? Or more votes for no gadgets??? Any more thoughts?
you really don’t want pressure down on the poll of a dressage horse so that is why I don’t like chambons. It should be up and out. Its not about the height of the neck, it is where the energy is going.
AND I want the horse to do it not as a result of pressure, since when I am riding it has to be a by-product of the balance change and thrust over the topline,.
Any horse will put the head down if you press on the poll with your hand. What is that teaching them?
It is a horrible idea to try to lunge this horse fit. You are putting excessive strain on older joints.
To properly bring back a horse of this age requires careful warm up. You need to get on and walk on a long/loose rein for 20 minutes before doing anything else.
Spend less time on circles and more time on long straight w/t/c. Hill work is great, if available.
Cranking a horse’s head down and working it in circles is not a good thing.
Put away the lunge line. Step out of the round pen.
This horse.needs to be ridden.
Neither. Long line or ride.
I am doing less and less longing every year, honestly. It has its place but not for every horse or situation.
However, it sounds like you are afraid of him, which is ok, just consider working in the largest circles you can. Or add in flexions/ground work with a bit and bridle. Sort if like if you taught a horse piaffe in hand-- not just walking on a loose lead rope or cowboy stuff. Like a dressage horse would work.
“I do better with horses that are on the cold side and he’s a little sensitive, so I’m not overly anxious to ride him.”
