Building Topline on an out of shape ArabX... neck stretcher??

[tikkamasala]

Hi,
I just bought my 12yo Arab-QH-X mare two Weeks ago. She has been out of regular work for 2.5 yrs so needless to say she is super out of shape.
I bought her, put her on good pasture, beet pulp w/o molasses, plus oil (BCS 3.5-4/9). We started week 1 with 5 days on, 2 days off of lighter work, up to 20 min. We w/t/c but focus mainly on w/t transitions. We also ground drive & long line some days instead of riding.
Week 2 we upped to 30 min, and tried out some hill work at the end of the week (w/t transitions up and down hill).
She is building butt muscles but I want to make sure she gets topline too. She really tries for me and usually is ahead of my leg but when riding she carries her head super high like a saddleseat Arab. I push her into my hands but she only stretches for the bit like that maybe 10% of total riding time.
I was wondering if this saddleseat/giraffeing will prevent her from building topline. If so should I lunge or long line her with a neck stretcher? My thoughts are NOT to get a headset but rather to encourage long and deep and low relaxed.

Thoughts?

[enjoytheride]

Has she been ridden before that or has she been a pasture pet? It sounds to me like you are in a huge hurry.

[copper1]

Takes time-working long and low will do wonders but you can only work with the conformation you have and if she has a high set on neck then that won’t change. You need to teach her to accept the bit and work from behind and it is not an overnight deal.

[yellowbritches]

Proper toplines come from consistent, proper work. You’ve only had her 2 weeks, and toplines take time. Keep riding her correctly with lots of PROPER long and low work, gradually building her fitness, with plenty of riding out over varied terrain, and you will start to see improvement.

Neck stretchers aren’t something I’d use consistently for topline (honestly, I’m not a fan of lungeing for regular work and prefer to ride a horse to build its strength and fitness). While it does encourage them to lower their head, and some horses when properly lunged will push from behind and swing their back, most just drop their head. I save neck stretchers for teaching a tense horse to relax more than anything.

[Winding_Down]

I am also not a huge fan of neckstretchers. I much prefer draw reins (if used properly and with skill) and vienna reins. That being said, I would not be preoccupied with the topline. Train her properly and the topline will come. My concern would be less with her appearance and more with what she is doing under saddle.

My approach in building strength is to do lots of flat work, long and low, cavaletti, lots of smaller jumps, and hacking out with hills. If there is an actual physical limitation or weakness, I would add in Estrone injections to help with stifle strength (very closely related to strength issues over the topline), and good quality protein in the form of a ration balancer. I also have learned that if you start with a horse that has a good cover of fat, then the muscle and strength come easier than if you start with one who is very lean (I am not talking obese, bur rather just a tad on the fluffy side).

[GoneAway]

Agreed with the others. She will relax more and stretch into the contact when she begins to understand what you’re asking, and has the strength to give it to you. If she’s offering it 10% of the time, then she simply needs to get stronger. Remain consistent and allow yourself some time to let this happen. As others have said, this is not an overnight deal. It will come incrementally, and I also agree with the use of hacks, hill work, cavaletti, etc to help build her hind end up. I don’t suggest using a neck stretcher.

If your goal is to introduce her to correct long and low work so you can add that to her routine, then neck stretchers will just screw her up. Horses cannot go “down and out” and open up their throatlatch in a neck stretcher because running it through the bit prevents their nose from going forward as the head goes down. So a neck stretcher only allows the poll to come down if the nose goes backward toward the chest, which is not what you want in correct long and low work.

[gardenie]

This is a subject dear to my heart because I’m riding a long term rehab project that someone decided too soon must have her head down “on the bit.” Damn near impossible to get her to open her throatlatch ;-).

Slow way is the fast way.
“I just bought my 12yo Arab-QH-X mare two Weeks ago. She has been out of regular work for 2.5 yrs so needless to say she is super out of shape.”

Yellowbritches is right “Proper toplines come from consistent, proper work. You’ve only had her 2 weeks, and toplines take time. Keep riding her correctly with lots of PROPER long and low work, gradually building her fitness, with plenty of riding out over varied terrain, and you will start to see improvement.”

http://www.amazon.com/Conditioning-Sport-Horses-Hilary-Clayton/dp/096957200X

You need to concentrate on building baseline fitness before worrying about “topline.” Taking your horse out and doing walk hacks 20 minutes on her back and 20 minutes in hand and building up to an hour might be a good start depending on her behavior, will get you fit and her fit too. Having a chiro out to insure her high headed ness isn’t discomfort might help too. Having a good sport vet or eventing trainer help you design a program for this horse will stand you in good stead over time to get the horse structurally fit.

I find people also get too interested in a horse’s head position too early. If you don’t allow the horse to find her own balance over time and are “pushing the horse into the bit” the horse gets defensive. If you practice riding terrain with the thought that the horse must look at what it is doing the head drops on its own, which builds the right topline. Scattered cavaletti in an arena helps too. Being more aware of the back and ribcage is helpful, and realizing you are sitting on a free floating system that requires a lot of time to develop.

[tikkamasala]

Thanks for the responses, all. We will continue upping our workload incrementally week by week. I am not in any hurry, I just don’t want to prohibit her topline from developing out of negligence. Good point on the neck stretcher pulling them in as opposed to pushing them from back to front. We will be trail riding a LOT through creeks, hilly terrain for the next two months (June and July) so hopefully that helps too. Yes, trot poles will be happening soon as well to the person who suggested those. And I am trying to get her to a BCS of 5.5/9 so that we have wiggle room when summer hits and we are constantly on trails. She is the best mare ever… Known her for 3 years and she always gives 100%. I couldn’t ask for an animal with more heart.

Thank you all for your responses

[subk]

[QUOTE=tikkamasala;8138069]
We will continue upping our workload incrementally week by week. I am not in any hurry, I just don’t want to prohibit her topline from developing out of negligence. [/QUOTE]
If you can only get her to stretch for 10% of the ride it is because 1) it hurts to do more since she isn’t in shape and/or 2) she doesn’t trust you. Probably both. When you consider how much to increases the work load remember this: If you improve 1% a ride in in 3-4 months the horse is 100% better. You are moving WAY to fast. If I had a horse that hadn’t been in work for longer than 2 years the first 4 weeks we would be only walking. “Hill work” at this point is too much and nothing good is going to come of it. I would expect you horse to be body sore and when you show up to ride she is NOT happy to see you. Building resentment right off the bat does not bode well for a future partnership.

All that being said you don’t build the topline from stretching the neck. You build it by lifting the back.

Edited to add:
On re-reading my post I realize it may sound kind of harsh. I’m going to let it stand, but just try to imagine my voice is that of a little old lady who is patting your hand as she is talking. I’m not trying to be mean–only realistic.

[tikkamasala]

I appreciate the input it; it didn’t come off as harsh. I would say the mare trusts me as she LOVES working and really does try for me. She runs to me/the gate every time she sees me, even with saddle in sight and no food. From the responses sounds like casual trail riding is #1 on the menu which works for me because I love trail riding! ! Nothing better than some woods with friends on my trusty mare.

Thanks again folks!