Looking good Jealoushe!
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Back off. Seriously.
Jealoushe is a very competent rider and trainer who turns OTTBs into forward and confident jumpers.
Any goals she has in this sport are, for her, realistic goals.
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Back off why? LOL. Iām not sure why my question is so improper. Iām a cross rails jumper. Pretty sure Iāve said as such before. My saying I changed my mind about competing at that level after watching today has no weight to people making decisions. Others at higher levels making a decision change might. Losing potential entries could make organizers make different course decisions .
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I donāt think Burghley will be holding their breath.
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Has anyone found a replay from the live stream today? I only saw the first half before my farrier came out
@JER Thanks 
Burghley doesnāt give a sh*t about me, thatās true and I am not bothered by that, but Iām a dedicated eventer so I can only imagine what the outsiders of our sport think after watching that.
Its a bad look, and itās unfair to the horses to punish them fence after fence.
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Not to change the subject, but I missed Pippaās ride, Will the rides be available to watch again?
I think they are usually posed tonight or tomorrow on their website or YouTube.
You can see replays in several parts at the livestream link from before. Just cklick to the main Burghley channel.
I think the gates were mim pins, as opposed to frangible pins. Not quite sure of the difference, (I am quite sure I will be corrected if this is wrong;)) I think the mim pins have to have a head-on crash, where the frangible collapse under downward pressure. Only one person hit the gate head-on, everyone else hit it at an angle. I think that is right.
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I can explain this. Iām going to try and sit down and write a better explanation with diagrams for distribution later this week but for now, hereās the cliff notes:
To begin the explanation, I have to start with the idea that force has two components: magnitude (how strong the force is) and direction (the angle the magnitude is aimed, in three dimensions). In order to simplify forces, you break the magnitude into three āunitā directions: one each in X (along the plane of the fence), Y (perpendicular to plane of fence), and Z (towards the ground) directions. MIM clips activate based only on forces in the Y direction, frangible only in the Z direction.
So when a horse hits a gate like that, itās not just one force, but a combination of the magnitude of the X and Y forces. Thereās no real Z force on a gate unless the horse lands directly on it, which is why the gates arenāt frangible pinned.
Now, the more you jump on an angle, the more you are directing the the magnitude of the force towards the X direction and away from the Y. At a 45 degree angle, the magnitude is split evenly between the X and Y directions. So if the MIM clip is designed to break with 100 lb of pressure, and the horse jumps the gate straight on and hits with 150 lb of pressure, the MIM will break but if the horse jumps at a 45 degree angle and hits with 150 lb, the MIM clip will only experience 75 lb in the direction required to break the clip and will not break. This is not a flaw in the clipā¦this is a flaw in the implementation of the clips. User error, as we say.
So now, to break the clip on an angle, the horse would need to hit the gate with double the force required to break the pin in normal operation. And to make things worse, it seemed to me that these gates were well beyond a 45 angle which means the Y magnitude would have been significantly less than even half of the total magnitude. Which is why only Carryon Bobby Boy broke the clip; he basically chested the gate rather than just hit it with his legs.
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Burghley is, and always has been a very testing event. On this occasion,some horses and/or riders were not ready for the experience. For the most part this was due to the lack of entries from those involved in the Euro Champs.Some made silly errors. THAT IS ALL. So quit your bleating.
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Many of those that had falls were not inexperienced combos.
Any idea when the replay will be up?
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Yes. Itās the sort of thing that could make one wonder if they should support eventing. I know plenty of people in the horse world who rail against racing, saying it is (or fosters) horse cruelty. Eventers should not want that to happen with eventing.
With this level of carnage, will the course designer make any kind of statement or apology about the course? Will there be any kind of review as to why so many falls happened?
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@Divine Comedy thanks for the great explanation! I guess now I donāt understand why you would use the MIM clips in the first place. It seems like the most likely cause for a rotational would be when the horse hits the fence on the y axis (chests it or hangs a leg). I canāt imagine a scenario where the z access would come into play, without the y axis also being involved.
Oh well, Iām sure someone much smarter than I chose which clips to put where!
For those who watched the full day, take a moment and consider what falls we would have seen had we not had the collapsing fences.
Today would have been far, far worse. I donāt even have time to review and count ALL of the potentially bad falls, with horse legs caught in the fence, that were saved by the forgiveness of the fences. And the actual falls that were softened for the same reason.
Because had those logs not given way when they did ā¦ the end of this day might have seen a tragedy, and maybe more than one. Thatās not what I expect to see when I pull up a 5* live feed.
Regardless of the explanations / excuses for why there were so many falls, so many broken fences, none of those reasons excuse what I saw out there today. Whatever is wrong has to be fixed. This canāt be what happens at a 5*.
Some of the riding and near-misses had given reason enough for a rider to be pulled off course before they got into serious fall trouble. Why werenāt they? Why were they qualified at all? That needs work.
It seems that once a rider is out of the start box, no one is going to stop them for any reason. This āride or dieā attitude by some of the old school, get out there and donāt stop for anything, drive the horse into the ground if you have to, has to removed from eventing thought processes and policies.I saw it out there in abundance today. We had a very ugly round of that attitude last year after one of the more unpleasant eventing incidents, and the names who spouted off publicly supporting a negative horse welfare situation are hard to forget.
As for the jumps, an example is that, in past years, the Maltings open oxer was scary and one to get in the rearview even when it was just the one. A lot of top event horses have barely had the scope to get over it. So what was the point of adding second one on a left turn directly after the first one? Itās an open jumper jump, not a cross-country jump. What was expected from that, exactly, other than to trap some horses and riders?
There has to be a more effective set of brakes on course design oversteps. Itās unfortunate that is necessary, but clearly it is.
Of course the collapsing fences have to be more effective at saving horses and riders. Where the collapse didnāt happen, there were some awful falls that could have ended more badly than they did. But in addition to improving that technology, the need shouldnāt be nearly as high as it was today. And it isnāt just the collapsing fences that are adding to course difficulty, the course designer may be getting a break from the inflatable vests as well (Savannah Fulton).
Basically - If today is what eventing presents and continues to present, I will feel zero sympathy when the forces that we donāt control step in and do what eventing didnāt do, to protect both the horses and the riders who are making mistakes.
I support everything about the basic philosophy of eventing. I do not support what I saw on Burghley XC today. That is not what eventing is supposed to be, and not what I want to see or to follow.
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Iām catching up on the livestream now.
I agree that some of the courseās perceived difficulty, compared to the Burghleys Iāve seen in the past is due to the fact that there were far more younger and less experienced horse-rider combinations than usual. I also felt that some of the most difficult and technical questions came up very soon in the course, resulting in horses and riders either getting tripped up before they were really in harmony and had a sense of the flow of the course, or getting weary early on, and then making poor decisions or simply running out of gas later. Even taking more of the long optionsāwhich was clearly the right move for many, especially those on less experienced or more impressed horsesācan result in greater tiredness over a tough course and errors that the pairs might not normally make.
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True. But. If they are not ready for this course, if it is dangerous to horse and rider for them to be out there ā¦ then why are they?
If itās qualifications, then that has to be looked at more closely. Because some of them were taking the āeasyā routes and finding them not so easy, so it was not just down to that.
If itās just to fill up the entries, that has to be reconsidered as well. If enough qualified riders just arenāt available for the next 5*, some other solution has to be considered.
If they should be able to manage the course but then are making hash out of it once they are out there, and wonāt retire on their own, there needs to be more clear standards for when riders are pulled off. And they must be pulled off. There seems to be a deep reluctance to do that, no matter how dangerous the riding.
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Where are you watching it? I canāt find the replay of cc, just dressage
Thanks very much for taking the time to explain this!
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