In bringing up what my Arizona email friend said, I believe I acknowledged the sad but true nature of capitalis, but acknowledging it doesn’t mean one has to like it. Me, I accept reality as a complicated matter–my mind can handle that, even if it doesn’t LIKE the result and so is willing to work on changing it.
Meanwhile, over-simplification is a sign of a simple mind. And there’s also nothing anyone can do about THAT, either–scary as it is.
Sorry, I have had enough of “no morrals” making the US the laughing stock of the world. And you can do what ever you want with your body, just not someone else’s. And you will always have the right to choose, just not to “change your mind” after your neglect, lack of careing, and incompetence creates another life. You already made your choice. Just check out what the baby looks like at a month or 2 of gestational age and tell me it is nothing. Count the fingers. See the smile. So at what day do YOU think it becomes a life? Environment? How about shutting a long term family business of making apple juice down and fineing them hundreds of thousands of dollars due to a sugar spill? Especially when owners asked for the test to see how they were doing cleaning up the higher sugar ground content that they reported. Sugar? The rich getting richer might not sound good to you, but trickle down economy does work. It creates jobs, and jobs create competition for employees. If you heavily tax the rich, they sit on their money and don’t invest in the future. Yes, Bush has not had the experience public speaking, and Gore is very practiced. I would rather have honest. And remember, you are getting all of your information from the media (Another word for media is liberal) I will definitely make time to vote now… BUSH
Ash,
You do yourself no favors in the credibility department with your post.
I urge you to investigate the “facts” yourself instead of relying on spin. For example, if you go to the CNN website and look up the transcript from the interview (I believe it was in March, 1999) where Gore made the statement re the Internet, you’ll see first hand how egregiously the remark has been taken out of context.
This goes for both candidates, of course. Please people, don’t simply believe and accept what you hear. Take some responsibility and verify the “facts” yourself.
Reading through all of these posts has been a really interesting social study of the American populace - America does seem divided among several lines:
Those who are bitter in life and are certain in their conviction that it’s someone else’s fault - welfare mothers, immigrants, drug addicts, pro-choicers, anti-choicers…
Those who believe stridently, offensively at times, in a party or candidate regardless of fact and truth;
The indifferent who don’t give a damn about anything but their own comfort and welfare and haven’t the interest or curiosity in actually arriving at independent and informed conclusions on political issues and candidates;
Then there are people like rockstar who believe that the political process can lead to benefits, value, and good for all.
I laud you rockstar for committing yourself to the political process (as faulty as it may be) and for defending that admittedly faulty process with integrity, perspective and PASSION. We do not effect change by sitting on our ass typing away on a bulletin board.
NEVER settle for the diminished role of “wife of…” The frustration will gnaw at you for the rest of your life - you are too smart, ambitious, honest, and independent to settle for such a thankless job. You posess instinctively what is lacking in this election - PASSION.
Somewhat naively and simplistically, I am hopeful that the American electorate will eventually wake up one day and, with revelatory bells and whistles, realize that passion, conviction and integrity are the values that you seek in a president - and that political decisions should not be based on whether one inhaled or not. I look forward to the day that rockstar is named a U.S. senator. The nation’s first equestrian senator. How cool is that?
[This message has been edited by heidi (edited 10-27-2000).]
oooooo, Lisa, I like your ideas!
>“It isn’t pollution that’s harming the environment. It’s the impurities in our air and water that are doing it.”-Al Gore
This is particularly funny, because I’ve seen this same quote attributed to Bush.
Anybody seen the new Snickers candy bar commercial with the Donkey/Gore and Elephant/Bush sitting on the guy’s shoulder??
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>“Not rich” is not having any discretionary income on which to buy luxuries, like horses or show circuits. For the person in the trenches, it means you MUST produce something worthwhile or YOU CAN NOT CONTINUE. You MUST sell or you will go out of business.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Geez! Pwynn, So what’s so terrible about the that concept. Are you saying that you should be able to produce whatever you want even if it has no sales value, potential or use to make life fair?
The point is very simple you can have anything you want if you are willing to pay the piper. For example I could have been a concert pianist but I couldn’t stand practicing the piano 8 hours a day. And, even if I did, the chances are no one would be willing to pay to hear me play.
I didn’t mind painting pictures 14 hours a day, and I painted more ugly pictures than you can imagine but I did get the bills paid. Because people were willing to pay for my paintings.
That is the basic element of supply and demand which creates the economy. There is nothing that says you are entitled to an above average income producing a product that you love but no one else wants.
The big fortunes were all built on designing a product that enough people wanted, and advertising is convincing them that they need it.
Fascists are no more far right than the Lords of the Manor who kept everyone in “serfdom”. That is simply a mis-definition. The fascist believes that they have the only “right” solution to a problem and they believe in their superiority as a “right” to dominate the rest who are not in their forum.
If you examine the two forms of economy you will discover that the “right” belongs to those who believe in the individual and inndividuak dignity and beauty, that would include the first democracy in Greece.
The “left” are the ones who have the patronizing attitude of the slave owners who felt that it was their “right” to dominate any group that in their opinion was inferior.
If you can be objective about the “liberal” establishment they enslave the masses by making them dependent on the government for their survival. It doesn’t matter much whether you call them entitlements or bribery.
Pwynn what you are saying about the days of “old” is just plain wrong. In those days a weekly salary was $8 or $10. It wasn’t rare that a trades person earned $1.00 a day. Yet, they bought houses went on vactions and started businesses. Everything is relative to the times in which you live.
What I am saying is that you may not be willing to pay the price in terms of your personal dignity and pleasure, but that doesn’t mean the opportunity is not there.
I have made a choice of my life style, I don’t want to give up what I have for the privilege of touring in a camper and living in a tack room. Now, if it was important to me to be a “winner” then I know the route and would have taken that route.
If it was important enough to you, you find the time to network, you would play the academic games that are required to be accepted in their “successful” groups. BUT, you don’t want to pay that price.
That’s what I meant earlier, the “left” is any group that attempts to control others and force them to live by their rules and permits no individual preferences of opinions.
That’s why so many on the “right” become hermits and seem anti-social. They are not willing to pay the price required to be socially acceptable and in many cases like mine to be politically correct.
We of the “right” want to have choice, not just on the issue of abortion but in all facets. We believe that we are able to determine and captain our own ship and do not require Big Brother to look out for us.
We know that there is no free lunch, and for every entitlement we must give up some individual rights. So, we want small government, they can maintain the highways and pick up the garbage. But, the real issues of life should be solved by real people. We don’t require a Washington Bureau to supervise us and tell us what to eat, what to wear and what to do when.
I want to teach and raise my own children and grandchildren. I want to be the font of all good things so that they will respect my point of view until they are old enough to have opinions of their own. The operative word is respect and not discipline.
[This message has been edited by Snowbird (edited 11-05-2000).]
We recieve dthe debate e-mail in my office too.
Also, Portia that Snickers commercial is my favorite!!! The best is the end:
Elephant: My Dad and I wear the same the pants.
Donkey: I invented pants.
God, I just fall off the couch every time I see that one.
I too will support Magnolia’s ticket, but only if I can have some concessions on behalf of baby cheescakes–dessert isn’t always fun and games!!!
Another political perspective story:
Growing up in my community, among my friends I was always considered the radical left-wing liberal (got it from my mom, I guess, Dad’s a libertarian). It was sometimes an uncomfortable mantle to carry, cause no one likes being odd-man out. However, when I went to college I went to UC Santa Cruz (right now every Californian reading this is reflexively screaming “Hippy College”), not for the politics but because I loved the area, and it was close enough to home and trainers that I could still get horsey help. Well, I got there, and suddenly I was the facist, right-wing Nazi. It was rather startling to have such two different views of myself.
Anyway, the point is, political perspective changes with the backdrop–so don’t sweat what everybody else thinks. If you disagree with how I’m using my vote, then use yours to counter it–there’s no reason to get all angry and personal about this.
With regards to the poster for Nader, I hope you do vote for him! (even though I don’t support many of his ideas.)
If you are considering voting for a 3rd Party candidate that represents your ideals very closely, please do. If you are thinking about staying home because Gore and Bush both stink, come out and vote a 3rd Party!! If we could get some new blood taken seriously it could help us all. I know Ralph Nader has many great ideas, and the Libertarian Party would probably be the best party for horse folk (their lack of regulation makes it good for small businesses).
IMO, unless you like Al and Dubya a whole lot, you are wasting your vote to vote for them. No, Nader has no chance in winning, nor are we going to have a Libertarian President, but, they can gain momentum for the next go round, instead of being discouraged by 2 parties afraid to even debate them.
I’m going to be out of the country on election day, so I’m going out today to do my early voting. And no, I’m not telling you who or what I’m voting for. 
The point is to examine the issues, examine the candidates (no matter how gawd awful they may be), make up your mind, and then vote – or keep your mouth shut for the next four years. 
Don’t worry, snowbird, under my dictatorship you may have a beige house as long as it is not in a development with 500 others. You get special dispensation if you help to maintain open space.
At least Bush won’t be a dirty joke as President, he did promise to scub out the oval office.
Please don’t even try to to talk about what Bush might do to the Presidency, compared to Bill Clinton he’ll look like a saint and a genius. Who knows we may even learn to have respect for that office again. I’m certain he won’t be renting the Lincoln bedroom, or sneaking around meeting interns for phone sex.
Arkansas certainly is is no big winner as a state and compared Texas sounds pretty good. Have you listened to the news really, and seen how many of the really big stories happened in Arkansas?
And, cut the whinning about Nader, we had Russ Perot who was the only reason “Bush Daddy” didn’t get elected and we wound up with a bad actor in the White House. If we survived the Governor of Arkansas, we might be really surprised at Bush! And, by the way since they know them so well, why wouldn’t “Hillarious” run for the Senate in Arkansas? Maybe they know the Clintons too well to ever go home. Have you noticed they have no plans to go home to Arkansas?
I’m too old to get riled up, you forget I started my politics with good old FDR and outlived them all! Look when the government decides what you need to do, and how you should live and are convinced they have the only right way, which is to take all your money and spend it for you! I don’t care much what the name is. It seems to me there are a lot of benevolent dictators that have claimed to be “Social Democrats”.
The “test” whether or not they’re the only ones who get to do what they want. I saw the video of Bubba Clinton smoking a big cigar in the oval office to celebrate after one of his best con jobs. They had to photo it through the window because the White House is “smoke free” for everyone else.
Now Gore almost did get my vote, I heard that in one his speaches he was in favor of using manure to run cars, that could get my support. The perfect environmental solution even better than sending us all back to the “out-house”.
Sannois and Jumphigh,
Your irrational, hate-mongering ravings have convinced me to vote Gore/Lieberman tomorrow. Thank you.
Signed,
Previously Undecided Voter, Smedley
There’s a survey at the following site which attempts to match your views with a candidate based on your answers to some survey questions:
My top choice ended up being a Socialist: David McReynolds (91), Ralph Nader (79), and Al Gore (73) . . .
I am planning on voting for Gore, but I may give Ralph Nader by vote. My top issues are the Death Penalty (abolish) and Pro Choice, and JumpHigh–I have voted for the abortion issue alone in the past in a Minnesota Governor race. I always vote Democrat, but once our Demcratic (DFL in MN) candidate was anti-choice, and I went with the Republican. It can come down to being the most important issue.
Pat Ness
[This message has been edited by pat on the back (edited 10-20-2000).]
Hey- if anyone has the website or address of any of those organizations of single people fed up with subsidizing kids, please e-mail or post. Very off the subject for the BB, but I need to vent and get some help on a local issue vs some Soccer Moms.
[This message has been edited by magnolia (edited 10-23-2000).]
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aly:
[B]Forgive me folks, I’m not facile when it comes to making use of the bold and quoting options on this board; I usually lurk. So, I’m going to indicate what’s a quote in the old-fashioned way.
“So then I guess Aly you are in favor of a slickly sophisticated and produced product. Doesn’t really matter what’s in the box. He can say anything you want to hear and that’s makes it better than a real person with some integrity and honesty to admit he’s not an expert on everything in the world but willing to delegate to those who are the experts.”
I am under no illusions when it comes to slickness – Democrat or Republican. If you honestly believe that ANY candidate for president in this day in age is not availing himself of the latest in spin doctors, media-savy advisors and what not, then, well, you’re going to be very disappointed. To me, it comes down to the lesser of two less than stellar choices.
I don’t know what profession you’re in, but in my line of business, we hire and promote based on EXPERTISE, not comfort. I am female, so let me put it to you this way: There are men you “play” with and there are men you marry. That being the case, the question becomes “Where do you want to invest your life energies and your time?” For me, there is no question — fun is fun, but we’re talking life priorities here.
“Which Al Gore do you like? The one from who lies about his pristeem views of the environment while his own money comes from a poluter of the water and ground? The one who didn’t know he was at a fund raiser in a budist temple? The one who backed up the Pres who was using cigars in a most unusual way? The one who got most of his money from the entertainment business he says is ruining the children? and on…and on…and…on!”
You know, I’m tired of both the spin doctors and those who mindlessly repeat them. If you want to know the TRUTH about Gore’s involvement in the internet, etc. go to various independent websites and read for yourself. He NEVER SAID he invented the internet. Frankly, I have to wonder what you gain from repeating that nonsense? Get another story and move on! I’m not going to try to convince you, the data is there. Read for yourself! What Gore actually said and what the RNC said he said are two very different things. Educate yourself and use the brain that God gave you.
“Did you know that Winston Churchill’s Dad thought he was so dumb that he wouldn’t trust him as the executer of the family estate? Did you know that Dwight Eisenhower chose to be President and passed people’s ideas because he already had accomplished all he needed and wanted to help others? He was aware of his image but he didn’t give a ****. He just did what was what he believed was right. And, what about Harry Truman who certainly wasn’t a genius, did that stop him from being a good President?”
[sigh] When you have the time and are willing to read and educate yourself, you’ll find that the history of the individuals you’ve mentioned is at once different and considerably more complex than your post suggests. The same is true for the current electoral campaign. All I can do is ask that we ALL be as intelligent in our choices as we can possibly be – whatever those choices are. For me, intelligence as a voter means doing your homework and reading more than the opposition’s take on a candidate. I don’t think it’s too much to ask.
More to the point, however, genius, per se, is not required to be President of these United States. Last time I looked, however, intelligence was helpful…
“None of them gave away the store for votes!”
Can’t figure out which candidate you’re talking about here as the issue of campaign financing plagues BOTH parties.
“Do you know if Gore’s grades were better? Do you know if he is anything more than parrot of the polls? Would you really like a President who has no honest opinions of his own, but has to check the polls to find out what he thinks on an issue.”
Well, actually, I KNOW about Gore’s grades and yes, they were better, but that is not the point. Polling is endemic in American politics; especially during presidential campaigns and in BOTH parties. But, that is not the issue either. Get a clue.
"Do you know if George Bush flunked any classes? Do you know if he graduated from Yale with honors? Do you know his IQ? How does it compare? Are you positive that you’re not just a victim of the media which so heavily supports Gore? Are you sure you’ve been told the truth? Are you sure you know what Al Gore really stands for and which people influence his opinions day to day! "
It is unfortunate that when one raises questions, this is the kind of response one receives. It is neither on point nor helpful. It’s rather like allowing your horse to go completely off-course (nothing jumped) and saying, “well, he still looked at the jumps, so we should win.” Last time I checked, going OVER the jumps was still important…
“Even his mother and father have not been saved from his prevarication of the details of his life. Which life is the truth?”
Hmmm. Which candidate are you referencing here?
“We’re obviously, not going to change each others minds on our priorities. I would like it though if you would consider whether or not there is a real Al Gore or is he a produced media package that you don’t know at all.”
See my earlier comment regarding media savvy campaigns. Both candidates are vivid illustrations of this problem. I’ve no clue who is the real “G.W.” just as I have no personal knowledge of Al Gore. I can only gone on their respective records – everybody “lies” during a campaign, just as everybody “lies” on a first date.
Everyone (whatever your affiliations) should read and research on their own — and not regurgitate “spins” from someone else. It’s a novel approach, but one I’d recommend. It’s also why I posed questions rather than a statement.
“If as we have all agreed the major problem today is the lack of personal responsibility for what we do, then would you prefer a guy who gets up and just says, Hey! this is me and I think I have a track record that proves I’m up to this job. What you see is what you get and you can be sure of an honest guy with integrity.”
I doubt that we have or will agree on much of anything. Further, it’s hard to place a mantle of “integrity” on any candidate in this campaign.
Read EVERYTHING not just what “your” candidate has to say and decide for yourself who’s better.
In the final analysis, I don’t have to agree with you or anybody else for that matter. That’s the beauty of this country. It’s easier, though if you’ve done your homework. This isn’t it…
Aly
[This message has been edited by Aly (edited 10-26-2000).][/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
An enlightened and cogent response Aly. I’d like to have dinner with you!!
When you have the philosophical slant that I have to my personality, people generally collect these things and send them to me.
This I thought was very appropriate for the dialog we have been having. You have I am sure noticed that I try to look at every question from many sides and go back to the source.
Personally, I think that chicken should have the right to go wherever it wants, and we should be careful of it’s right to cross the road, even if it is inconvenient. I would guess that chickens were here before us.
I am not happy with the fact that today the chicken has been so discriminated against that it is a favored choice by the current government for consumption. I think it is a gross miscarriage of justice that the government should single out the chicken as a major food source to replace cows and pigs.
And, I certainly hope that if Gore gets elected he will fight to protect the rights of the chickens. They are probably eligible to organize a union and set up quotas as just how many chickens may be consumed in any one life-time.
[This message has been edited by Snowbird (edited 11-02-2000).]
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jumphigh83:
GOOD NEWS all you liberal love festers out there!!!Jumphigh has deleted ALL her previous posts!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not to worry Jumphigh, I’ve already emailed most of your posts to friends around the country. Your circulation is increasing by the minute.
GORE.
Anyone who votes for Bush based on his ENVIRONMENTAL record must have been breathing the Houston smog for too long. I’d rather have that NOT happen all around the nation, or at least to that hellish degree.
As for things like oil and gas prices…who cares–pay a little more for gas, or get with the times and drive an electric car around town instead of your 4 ton SUV with it’s own solar system and atmosphere. We pay so little compared to most other nations, we ought to donate money just to keep from embarrassing ourselves.
Pro-choice, because it IS important. (Erin said we shouldn’t debate this endlessly, so that’s all I’m saying 
)
I am not a fan of the right-wing conservative, Christian right thing…I am a firm believer in separation of church and state, and I think that endorsing such a group is just mixing the two. Gore may be a religious person, but Bush is just pushing the “legal” limits. He said in a an interview that he knew one truth: “There is a God.” Come on! He just lost ALL the atheists, wiccans, etc. who don’t follow his religion. Couldn’t he have said something like “the sky is blue?” {Coming from him, it would sound the same–clueless; sorry, feeling evil }
Not to mention, In an interview with 20/20 at one point, Bush was asked about his “questionable” past, esp. his college years, and just said, “I really don’t feel like discussing it,” or words to that effect. ??? What happens if at some international summit, or Middle-East peace talk, someone asks a sensitive question, and Bush just says, “Um, how 'bout we don’t talk about that one, OK? Moving on…” Riiiiiiight, you figure it out.
I have so much more, but ya’ll are bored already I’m sure, so I’ll stop.
Come on people, this is not a personality contest–you’re voting for the most competent person of few options–it is a presidential election. You are supposed to pick the one of those offered who you believe can do the job–it’s a tough job!–the best. You are not voting to pick your new best friend and golfing buddy, deal with it.
kelly
15-year-old environmentalist, capitalist, pro-choice, pro-gun control, pro-personal FREEDOM
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