This all reminds me of Survivor. First, there were 4. I really liked Rudy (McCain). He was neat and honest. First, Sue went down - (not all that poular anyhow) (Bill Bradley) Then, Rudy went by by (Mc Cain).
So, we were left with 2 jerks Richard, a conniving smart guy that you hate (Gore), and Kelly (a backstabber 2 faced queen of fake that you hate.)(Bush)
So, like the dissed castaways, we have to vote for one of these jerks, and it’s gonna split right down the middle.I would love to see neither get a majority! :>
Let’s all sing along now:
My God is better than your God,
My God is better than yours,
My God’s better 'cause he’s a Republican
My God is better than yours.
To those of you too young to remember the old Kennel Ration jingle, just do the best you can. Oh no, Erin is it taboo to mention a dog food jingle on a horse BB?
I must say, this has been an interesting thread. I think, more than anything, it reflects how some of us feel they have been or should be affected individually by our government. [Hummm…how 'bout the BIG picture?]
Isn’t an understanding of government historically, important in shaping reasonable opinions on the subject. For instance it’s argued that, as far as leaders go, the trends of society determine the course of government or…if not Hitler then someone by another name.
For a good look at how government can evolve, try an in depth study of Republican Rome and then Imperial. For those who instantly conjured up thoughts of brutality and lions, you, most of all, need to lose the Hollywood perception of one of the most successful governing machines ever. The similarities in that government and ours, is most interesting.
One example is that of unreliable political rumours. Petronius from the time of Nero writes:
“People would rather swallow a lighted candle
Than keep a secret that smacks in the least of scandal.
The quietest whisper in the royal hall
Is out in a flash buttonholing passers-by against a wall;
And it’s not enough that it’s broadcast to the nation-
Everyone gets it with improvement and elaboration.”
A thoroughly enjoyable read including the subject of government is “The First Man In Rome” a novel by Colleen McCullough who also wrote “The Thorn Birds”. Once read, you won’t be able to resist her second in the series, “The Grass Crown”.
Gore!
However my trainers are for George Bush. we students try to keep out of any political discussion with them so we don’t loose our stirrups
I’m with you Heather. I once worked for one of the country’s largest law firms and was continually put upon to do extended travel b/c I was the one in the group that didn’t have kids.
My response (after 2 years of putting up with this) was that if the people with the kids can’t do the travel, then they have 2 choices: (1) get a job that provides them the flexibility they desire; or (2) get rid of the kids.
The bottom line is that they decided to have the damn kids. If they are unable to manage the precious darlings and the demands of the job, they need to fix the situation - not stick me in a hotel room in downtown L.A. for four straight months b/c they can’t do the necessary travel.
Thanx, I’ve been wanting to vent about that for years! 
Snowbird said: “OH! Yes Pwynn and what about taking it back a step on all those unwanted children…she just had to keep her legs closed and say NO! Remember we want to be responsible for what happens to our bodies!”
Have you ever had a conversation with “her”? As a teacher, I have, and guess what? She can be pretty damn dumb. Amazingly, how-can-you-survive-in-this-world stupid. What about the simply stupid–or the mentally borderline on incompetent? Who takes care of them? What about the crack baby girls and the lead-paint eaters and the three-generations-inbred offspring? What about the mentally ill, the uneducated, the timid and will-less?
If battered woman continue to expose themselves to physical abuse due to whatever mental complexes they may have, how can you just ignore the mental complexes that causes some of these girls to spread their legs too often? I’m not excusing all of them, not by any means.
But who takes care of the ones who just aren’t that intelligent? And not just in the abortion issue, but all of those other issues that Republicans want the people to just sink or swim through? Who takes care of them? Who helps the inner-city grandma invest her social security funds? Some rip off artist or social aide paid minimum wages? Who cares about people stuck in that cycle of poverty? The way some Republicans talk, you’d think all those people will just die out in time or something. They won’t, of course–they’ll just get poorer while the rich get richer.
I can’t help look at other advanced countries and see how, yeah, they pay for in taxes and for fuel, etc., etc. Their rich aren’t as rich as our rich…but their poor aren’t as poor, either. It’s an age-old dilemma, but I am thankful that at least there are rich Democrats. Except for gun-toters, however, I know of few poor Republicans.
[And, yes, Vik, I remember calling myself a social darwinist. But my conscience of late is having a harder and harder time maintaining that attitude. There’s just so much genuine stupidity in this world. I’m finding it hard to ignore the needs of those people whose circumstances put them at a disadvantage through no fault of their own.]
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jumpcrew:
This is NOT a negative statement, but women sure are complicated!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
But, my dear, that’s part of our charm
Holland, are you really Peggy Noonan, Ronald Reagan’s speech writer? - I see a credit to a Noonan at the bottom of your post.
GOOD NEWS all you liberal love festers out there!!!Jumphigh has deleted ALL her previous posts!! In the spirit of liberalism, equality, fairness and leveling the playing field, she has deleted all previous posts for your viewing pleasure. She decided that a battle of wits with the unarmed would be positively unAmerican! So remember…vote early, vote often AND look for that union label!!!
The ugly (but REAL) American who could give a rats behind about the rest of the world but would love to save her country from those that choose to bring it down.
Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy do I have a lot to say on this. It’s been a long day for me on the job in the world of Democratic fundraising though… and I am going to now transform into a normal collge kid and go out and have some fun OUTSIDE of the political world… so you will all have to just wait.
Simmer down now! I know everyone is dying to know my sentiments… just hold on to your horses ok? Hmmm… that shouldn’t be so hard! 
The fact that Bush sent his kids to public school, when he could obviously afford otherwise, just shows how DUMB he is and how very little he does care about education. Obviously figures being “Bush” kids is enough to guarantee their futures–reading, writing, and 'rithmetic would be useless perks!
JenniferS
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by woodbern:
OMG, for those of you who don’t/can’t/won’t/don’t want to understand… the top 1% already pays more. They pay 30% of the total taxes paid in America.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And your objection to that is…?
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HSM:
[However, you have stepped over a line to a place where you do not belong. How dare you discuss the topic of interracial or international adoption if you know NOTHING about it…But I will cordially ask you to please confine yourself to subjects about which you know something.[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
But HSM, I do know something about it, though I agree w/ Heidi (thank you Heidi 
) that perhaps your experience may be greater than mine. Simply put, I have 2 1st cousins once removed that were adopted by my cousin and his wife. They paid over $10,000 for the 1st child and more for the 2nd. They ‘tried for white’ and were “lucky to find” two students who chose not to abort. Were they concerned about how family would react to a biracial child? Yes, but in my opinion, unnecessarily so. We would’ve loved 'em if they were green. My friend’s adoptions (3 by one family) were even more expensive and offensive as the 1st one HAD to be a boy to inherit the family name (go figure). They then adopted ANOTHER boy when early tests showed the 1st ‘might be slow’. They tried telling everyone the girl they adopted was ‘greek’, but as she got older it was obvious she was racially mixed. Is this what they wanted, no. Have they become a better, more tolerant family? Well… the jury’s still out. The paternal grandmother is still horrified that ‘the family line ended’ because Peter chose to marry Melinda, knowing she couldn’t have children. But their daughter lacks nothing and has had every advantage (the market has been VERY good to them) the boys have, and as more women have fertility problems, Melinda has felt more comfortable admitting her children are adopted. I don’t know how old you are, but w/in my lifetime adoption has gone from something that was hidden, to something celebrated (“I have 2 mothers!”)
And as to my knowledge of international adoption? I was a reference, thanks very much, for friends of mine who adopted the most wonderful baby from Viet Nam. So I know the heartbreak, the waiting, the immediacy, the frustration, the “we’re leaving NOW to get our son!” first hand.
But, regardless of my experiences, I apologise if something in my remarks offended you.
But back to the topic: Bush, the “inclusive” Republican may have had a gay speaker at his convention, but he won’t support same-sex marriage. Gore will work for a compromise that gives gay and lesbian couples the legal rights that married couples enjoy. Which would include adopting children.
Good mornin’, Inverness…
It was not I, but pwynnnorman who argued that we can’t possibly know what these guys are truly like. I heartily agree, though. I’m curious to know what your take is on the wave of anti-intellectualism that’s sweeping US culture, illustrated so well in the Noonan essay. Noonan seems to say: Don’t think so hard, folks! Stop analyzing and critiquing! It’s all about feelings. Noonan is certainly a master at crafting speeches that lull the listener into a sense of happy well-being.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Baltic Sky:
Whew!! After reading all of this, I can say that the candidates have nothing on anyone. Things I’ve read: misquotes by people who would rather continue misquoting than find the truth, stretching and twisting of facts, cruel, selfish, narrow-minded ideaology, frightening reactionary beliefs, lies, stereotyping and prejudicial untruths about people who have little or no voice in this society. In short, there are many people who posted here who would make GREAT political candidates for this race, and be picked apart, looked at under a magnifying glass, and made to looking just as bad, if not WORSE than anyone currently running. Fortunately we have the right to read, go to libraries, use computers and in general, EDUCATE OURSELVES and make a change in this country by voting, writing letters, running for office, and getting involved. VOTE TUESDAY in PEACE as an AMERICAN…<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
WELL SAID!!! I really admire and appreciate your post.
But ohhhhhhhhh, how I SOOOO don’t admire or appreciate many of the other posts on this thread… this thread that has just gotten out of control.
Let’s just put it this way, to all of you out there who think jumphigh83 is a radical lunatic whose posts make your stomach turn, say “aye”!
I have spent the past few days campaigning in New York and have returned to DC and the board to find, OMG, 536 posts! That is UNBELIEVABLE!
One thing that is very clear is that many of you are gravely disapointed in who we have runnning in this race. It is quite clear that, for many of you, it is going to be a matter between deciding which is the lesser of two evils. I am so disheartened by this… and yet I can understand perfectly well why so many of you feel let down and pessimistic about our candidates. I wish that it didn’t have to be this way… I wish that we had candidates that people actually were enthused to vote for and see in the oval office.
Personally, and I emphasize the word PERSONALLY, I am proud of and really do admire Al Gore. I know that the “snowbird’s” of the world are as incapable of understanding my good feelings and enthusiasm for Al Gore as I am in understanding why someone would want to vote for Bush based on who he is (I can understand voting for him because he is the Republican nominee and represents general republican thought… but voting for him because of the man that he is??? I will never understand that!) Anyway, I feel that Gore has blundered a few times, and I wish that he was a little more charismatic and fun, but I don’t doubt for a single second that he is not a loving and caring man who is highly intelligent (and I don’t give a shi* if he flunked out of divinity school or was a C student at Harvard… say what you will about Gore… but anyone who calls Al Gore stupid is a damn hypocrit (sp?) who is as “stupid” as they come). Most importantly, I feel that he will serve the American people well and be a dutiful and extremely capable president who will work as hard as any president ever has.
The thing is… all of us seemingly hold a double standard when it comes to politics. I mean, we expect so much from our political candidates and dote on their actions, past and present, so frequently. We discuss who they “really” are, what they have done, and what they will do… and we disccus all of this everywhere from the grocery store to the dinner table to an obscure internet bulletin board where hundreds of horse people have congregated, many of whom masquerade as the poltical and historical experts and saints that they, in truth, are not. It is very entertaining to say the least. But how can we expect so much and put candidates under such a microscopic watch and then be so shocked and displeased when these candidates are caught lying about DUI’s, bad grades, affairs, and such? Who here hasn’t driven with a blood alcohal level that would probably exceed the legal one? Who here hasn’t recieved a poor grade, but hinks they are pretty intelligent? Who here does has not cheated or does not know someone who has cheated? I am, by no means, exusing these behaviours, but I don’t blame someone who is running for or is in the presidential office (or any other major political position) for struggling to fess up to mistakes, downfalls, and vices that could consequently ruin their dreams and dash their hopes of making it to an office that they have worked harder for than any of us will ever know.
I guess that the bottom line for me is that, in this day in age, in this time of intense media and public scrutiny where nothing goes unnoticed or can be forgiven, it is unfiar and silly to expect that we will ever have another JFK or FDR or Truman… great men who we glorify to no end. Why? Because we knew not of their blunders, at least, not in the same kind of way that we know of the mistakes and disapointments of today’s candidates. Could a candidte with polio win today? Never! What about JFK’s affairs? We know about them now (or at least we think we do), but few did then, and those who did overlooked it for the most part. Can you possibly imagine a document such as the Starr Report coming out in the early 1960’s? It NEVER would have been publically disclosed the way it was in Clinton’s term. If we keep up as we do, there will always be something, some kind of scandal or problem, blocking a candidate’s greatness.
When you go to the polls tomorrow, try to block out all of the extraneous information you know about the candidates. For a moment, try to actually BELIEVE in the candidate. Imagine having a converstation with him. Is that a converstaion you would like to have? Would you joke around and laugh a lot and discuss a sports team or a pending bill on congress? Imagine crisis like an outbreak of war or a stock market crash and picture who could handle such a situation better. And what about the issues that matter most to you? Is it taxation? Abortion? Gun control? Foreign policy and trade? Who’s position is more in synch with your’s? Consider all of this and make your choice. But please, try not to base your vote on the “lesser of two evils”… matching up one’s mistakes with those of the other. We put these men in this spot… its our choice now… don’t waste that choice.
Gore.
Gore. Bush just doesn’t have the depth or breadth to understand the job.
By the way Jumphigh, gore does not have a Juris Doctorate. He dropped out of law school.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DMK:
spfarm… i think the defnition of “catastrophic” might be me as a mother…<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
LOLOL DMK!!
I’ll bet I’d be a worse mother (of humans) than you! I never even held a human baby until I was 35 years old and I have no desire to ever repeat the experience!
Shoot! Why not if there is equality we’re “entitled to all be beautiful” that is according to what is beautiful by government standards.
I’m with you, I’d like a little rejuvenation to be more competitive. A little face lift and some liposuction would sure be nice here too. Afterall, we’re all entitled to be happy at all times and in all ways equally. I think I should be entitled to the same income that Julia Roberts gets, I have done more for society, I produced three happy healthy productive children.
Snowbird - I’m not 100% on the death tax, but I was told by a republican gal that it kicks in after $600,000. So, as I interpret it, anything under $600,000 is not taxed. Now, my family is far from poor, and will not be leaving me anywhere near $600,000. I would consider myself to be rich to inherit $600,000. I too thought it was unfair - I thought, say your mom left you $5000.00 and you had to give 2500 to Uncle Sam, but that isn’t the case. Also, under Gore’s plan, land is excluded in most cases.
