BUSHvsGORE re:Horse Industry

[Razumny]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ponyperson:
[B]GO BUSH!!!

For me, this is really a religous issue, I am a devout Roman Catholic, and of course, pro-life. People are saying, “Shouldn’t a woman be able to choose if she wants an abortion.” Well, she had the choice to hop in bed without protection with some guys she’ll never see again so I’m guessing NO.

[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WAIT JUST A COTTON-PICKIN’ MINUTE! The last I heard, devout Roman Catholics don’t advocate “protection” either.

[Sannois]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janet:
Gore servred in Vietnam.
Bush never served in the military<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry but Gore was nothing more than a war reporter. He had a desk job.

[hobson]

I had the nicest trail ride early this morning - it was a bit cold, but the sky was sunny and bright. A lovely romp over hill and dale. We went over the river and through the woods, too.

Twister, the slippery slope argument seems like a very important one to you, so could you please back it up for me with some facts?

There have been gun-ownership restrictions in place for some time: I think it was you who alerted us to the fact that DV perps cannot legally obtain a handgun. There are mandatory waiting periods and background checks. These are all relatively new restrictions on gunownership.

Now, please list for me the other freedoms - unrelated to guns- that you have lost since these restrictions were instituted. And be specific: like, “In 1997 the PA state legislature imposed a 24-hour waiting peroid for abortions.” or, “In 1999, the Nevada supreme court ruled against private ownership of bathtubs.” I submit that if you have not been bathing since the gun-purchase background check law went into effect, it’s not because the government won’t let you.

And unless you hunt, or have to chase illiterate hunters off your property like Snowbird (oh, I sympathise, Snowbird - the brain power that’s packing heat out in the woods can be truly chilling - don’t you love finding a decapitated deer carcass with an empty six-pack next to it?) why would you own a gun if you aren’t willing to use it, to point it at someone and pull the trigger? By posessing a handgun, I think you make the statement, “I am willing to kill someone whom I perceive as a threat to me or my property.” Or are you using it to shoot holes in an old K-Car parked in the back yard?

Hey rockstar, stop calling me a liberal! Never call me the L-word, because I get REALLY offended. I am a radical, OK? And yes, bring your honey along to the beer outing! I’ll bring mine, too - he’ll talk about his research in bureaucratic deliberation and make your eyes roll back in your head. Oh, what fun we’ll have!

[smedley]

Getting back to the subject at hand, hypothetically, what if GWB had been driving drunk and had run into a horse trailer?

[Snowbird]

Freedom is a simple concept. It takes a lot of juggling to make the taking away of freedom sound right.

The problem Doubleeez is that the elected officials of “everything” have forgotten they are supposed to be the servants of the people and not their Lords and Masters

I too find it very sad, that those of you who prefer Gore don’t notice his take charge attitude leaves out freedom of “choice” for all of us.

That is what BUSH is saying, government is not in control to tell us what we may do, he wants the government to let the “people” make the decisions.

If you find me unreasonable in my conviction then I apologize, but I have always believed in the right of everyone to have free “choices”.

I however, will not delete nor will I concede to those beliefs which I know from experience are not in defense of the individual rights. Not only is the right to control pro-creation at stake but the right the believe differntly and be a minority.

Perhaps, tomorrow will show who is the minority.

[This message has been edited by Snowbird (edited 11-06-2000).]

[Inverness]

I have one rule in voting for a President: I want the future leader of the free world to be smarter than me. Let’s face it - Bush is a 40 watt bulb.

Magnolia is correct on one count, however. State (and local) elections are extremely important for the horse industry, and neither Bush or Gore is going to be able to deliver w/o a cooperative Congress.

[Magnolia]

The reason I’m voting against Bush -
IF HE HAS HIS WAY, OUR ENVIRONMENT WILL BE $%#@*&. THE ENVIRONMENT WILL NOT NECESSARILY BE ABLE TO BE REHABBED AFTER 4 YEARS OF CORPORATIONS RAPING IT.
Yes, we can get our rights back after Bush tramples them. But, do you want to go fox hunting and have to wear a gas mask (oh, wait, the republicans let the developer build a chip mill over there…sorry!). Look, there is no second chance for our earth. sorry. Would you rather your tax dollars subsidize roads for a millionaire to clear cut our forest, or would you rather they be spent exploring new energy sources that may eventually save you money?
If you can show me that BUSH cares about the environment, you will sway my vote. And, no, Gore is no environmentalist, but at least he gives it a thought.
We all have to share the earth. It is a cycle. Pollution effects all people, and if we let it get much worse, well sorry, we may all just die of lung cancer from all the smog.

[Finzean]

Hi, I was just curious to get more information about the taxation of fetuses…if it’s really high, I’m going to see how long I can continue to carry this very wanted child since I am a responsible parent who totally expects to be absorb the costs of said child and will have to pay the taxes levied upon her. And I promise to never force anyone to hold her whether she’s leaking or not!!!

[Pat_Ness]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by spfarm:
[B]Hobson, I’m not sure how old you are, but I’m taking a guess that you are still fairly young. Plus I don’t think you will always be making minimum wage as your career advances. Hope you have more ambition to advance yourself as the years go by

Why are you assuming Hobson is making minimum wage? Maybe she is referring to the millions that do! I totally agree with Hobson. I am 45, I have been in the work force for 30 years and I do not foresee any problems when I retire as I have been saving, but, what if something catastrophic happens in my life? Not everyone has an extended family. I am grateful to be in a country where government helps out the less fortunate. I truly hope I will never need it.
Pat

[Twister]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hobson:

Twister, the slippery slope argument seems like a very important one to you, so could you please back it up for me with some facts?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It’s not a slippery slope argument, it’s an apples and oranges argument. More children die from drowning than from gun deaths. Why don’t you want to ban swimming???

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Now, please list for me the other freedoms - unrelated to guns- that you have lost since these restrictions were instituted.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have no idea what you are going for here.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> why would you own a gun if you aren’t willing to use it, to point it at someone and pull the trigger? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You own a horse, so why aren’t you willing to have it pull a plow?? And if you own a show harse, should you be allowed to take a hack across the field? If we limit the use of items to their original intended purpose, what will happen to Sunday drives? Does this mean I’ll have to buy a paint can lid remover instead of using a screwdriver?

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
By posessing a handgun, I think you make the statement, “I am willing to kill someone whom I perceive as a threat to me or my property.”
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good heavens!! Why would you think so??? You DO realize pistol shooting is an Olympic sport???

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Or are you using it to shoot holes in an old K-Car parked in the back yard?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, you DON’T realize pistol shooting is an Olympic sport. Do you really think comments like this contribute to the dialogue? They
DO demonstrate that you buy into stereotypes.

I did manage to come up with a slippery slope argument for you. In Australia, guns owners were required to register their guns. All the law abiding citizens went down and registered their guns. Imagine their surprise when guns were banned and confiscated. Guess what? Gun crime increased.

[HeyYouNags]

Oh no, politics have finally forced me out of lurking. Why can’t I just sit on my hands?

Here’s a horse-related tidbit to consider, although it pertains to Tennessee Walking Horses: the Walking Horse people who favor the big padded shoes, and who are opposed to federal enforcement of the Horse Protection Act (HPA), favor Bush. According to their chat rooms, they expect a Republican administration to de-emphasize the HPA. US Dept. of Ag. had in the past couple of years tried to enforce anti-soring measures more stringently, but have been beaten back by a Walking Horse Industry political action committee, which pads the coffers of several key Southern members of Congress, all Republicans.

Not sure Gore will help much, but at least he’s not likely to make matters worse!

Of course, I’m sticking with my TB’s and WB’s…

[Magnolia]

I think Hobson’s point was that not only do your tax dollars support welfare mama’s, even more go to support things like research on corn with fish genes, that mainly benefit the corporation that chooses to market that technology. Hell, my boyfriend is a taxpayer subsidy waste. He works for a government contractor. Guess what he did this summer? He supervised our military as they put non-hazardous barrels of water on a truck for 3 days. YOU paid for his beach front condo, a rental car, and a $1200.00 EACH WAY plane ticket b/c the government was too disorganized to plan better. He stood around for 6 hours a day, was paid for 8.
I believe Hobson’s candidate, Nader, is against spending money like this, hence her post. So if you are really tired of your money being wasted on garbage, vote libertarian or Nader. Bush and Gore both love to subsidize corporations!

[DMK]

VT - that is an “East Texas” twang he has picked up… he didn’t get his accent in the oilfields, he got it from the Houston hotel he grew up in…

For all you people who are eternally amused by politics in a cynical sort of fashion, here is the queen of comentary, Molly Ivins. The article will change daily, but today’s is REALLY funny. Oh, and as a person who was very close to the legislative history on this particular subject, she ain’t stretchin’ the truth…
http://www.star-telegram.com/columnist/ivins2.htm

[Erin]

Somewhat off the topic… (but since most of this thread has little to do with the topic… )

Does anyone else feel guilty for having to drive a truck or SUV as an everyday car? I need a truck to pull my trailer, and I certainly can’t afford two cars. But it kills me that I have to tool around in a behemoth that gets 16 mpg on a good day.

Of course, these days I only drive about 25 miles a day to work AND the barn, so I don’t feel quite so bad!

[hobson]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rockstar:
hey HOBSON…i think you might enjoy this article…
-rockstar
http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=131&subid=192&contentid=2413 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi rockstar! Sure, I enjoyed it, insofar as I generally enjoy gnashing my teeth! But I’m sorry the writer was so patronizing of Ralph’s positions, since as far as I’m concerned, they’re courageous and honorable, not bought and paid for by corporate campaign contributions. Not a surprise, since I think of the DLC as a hoary old right-wing sanctuary. Lordy, even Eric Alterman is running around this week telling us lefties to vote for Gore. What’s the world coming to?

Really, if the New Dems really think they deserve and own the votes of us “lefty intelligentsia,” then why must Al Gore commit such reactionary doozies like supporting Star Wars and blaming the entertainment business for the ills of society? Nader needs my vote here in PA as much as anywhere else if the Green Party is to achieve the necessary vote percentage to get federal campaign assistance. We’ll never get there if we keep compromising for the sake of the “not-as-conservatives.” I almost fell over laughing when I read Chris Hitchens’ description of the “vote for Nader only if it doesn’t hurt us” attitude as “nonsense on stilts.” And I agree! (with all due respect, as I’ve enjoyed our exchange)I can’t vote for Gore just because there’s some vague chance he might throw me a bone once in office. Naive I’m not. I’d rather give the democrats a real scare, because what they’re doing is INSISTING upon paying precious little attention to the left. If it makes you feel any better, a lot of new voters who are otherwise jaded by the “same old” phenomenon are going to come out for Nader on election day, and will likely vote for democrats in local/state/congressional elections, which should give you guys a boost. Good luck, and how is it you have so much time to troll the bulletin board with a crucial campaign underway? Don’t they give you enough to do there at the Party?

[This message has been edited by hobson (edited 10-26-2000).]

[woodbern]

Nope, not the GI Plan… happily, my husband didn’t need to be sent to college by the government. Nor did he consider himself a “war hero”, merely an decent American - age 19 - who joined the Army like many, many others.

As for the rest of it - whatever, whatever, whatever floats your boat(s) … too fatigued to listen to any more lectures from the ilk of the Kryswyns of the world.

Let’s just see what the election brings. Then some of us will like it and some will lump it, right?

[This message has been edited by woodbern (edited 10-29-2000).]

[Inverness]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snowbird:
Wait a minute, now I’m confused! A vote for Gore and hunting? How does that make logic?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To my knowledge, Gore has never opposed the sport of hunting. I believe that the gun control measure advocated in his agenda is the banning of assault weapons, continuation/extension of waiting periods and background checks for prospective purchasers, and closing the “gun show loophole.”

I may not be correct on this point - I haven’t really focused on this particular issue. Perhaps someone who has actually studied the issue can give Snowbird a more informed answer.

[Twister]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hobson:
Amen to that, magnolia! Have you seen the modern windmills - the really tall, three-bladed white things? I just think they’re some of the most beautiful pieces of technology I’ve ever seen.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I’ll amen that to you, too! And even though I b[]feel[/b] old enough to have been around then, I imagine when the suggestion came that there was something better than coal firing, it was met with sceptisism, too.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Just so you know, I"m voting for the Libertarian cadidate for our US senator here in PA - there’s no green candidate, and the Libertarian guy makes a lot of sense, even though some of the policies can be tough on cities.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I yanked the lever for every Libertarian on the ballot, including Harry.

[Inverness]

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chief2:
Furthermore, not only is it illegal to hold office in TX with a conviction on your record, but turning in a jurors’ survey with portions left blank, signed, and then claiming an aide who didn’t have enough information filled it out now has the judiciary interested in speaking with George W. Which would have ordinarily been enough, but his comment over the weekend in Florida, while campaigning in a Senior Center, that he was admitting his guilt now “because that’s what an honest American does” (Source: NPR Radio) tipped the balance.
.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hadn’t heard about the jurors’ survey before this. Isn’t such a survey a “sworn, under penalty of perjury” document in every jurisdiction?

[This message has been edited by Inverness (edited 11-07-2000).]

[ClemsonGraduateRider]

Magnolia . . . I couldn’t agree more!!

I feel as though the fed government is going past the limits of control on my life that I feel confortable with!

Local government should have more power . . .esp since they are more accessible