I agree with Jumphigh… when the govt is taking 39% of your paycheck (not to mention those FICA people), you get a little cranky. And as for the SUVs, until you’ve been hit headon by a Ford F150, don’t pass judgement on those who buy the big SUVs. After my minivan got minimized even further I bought a Suburban (the “Texas Cadillac” - 40% of all Suburbans are sold in TX) and I feel alot more secure out there (plus it can haul the horse or the boat). Yeah, it gets 14 miles a gallon and my Exxon bill runs about $800 a month, but heck, I’m an oil and gas accountant- my bonus should be good this year. Wanna talk air pollution, check out the figures for the amt of methane produced by grazing cattle. It is a laughably high figure. Of course no politian wants to start legislation against a bunch of cows, so they will continue to pollute our environment and ruin the air quality. Here in TX we tend to blame all the west Texas longhorn cattle for the foul condition of Houston’s air.(Couldn’t possibly be all the Suburbans.)
Bush !
Gore is an idiot who is also a pathological liar !
Remember, HE invented the internet, discovered the Love Canal toxic site, and LOVE STORY was written about him & Tipper.
When Gov. of Tenn. he was for gun ownership, but now he isn’t because the media polls tell him not to.
What foreighn diplomacy does he have ?
NONE
What businesses did he operate ?
NONE
What branch of the military was he in ?
NONE
HOw did he reproach “slick willie” Clinton?
DIDN’T, in fact he applauded him.
BUSH is the one hope this once great nation has, not another lying, liberal, power hungry, BIG government suporting, rights stripping, 2 faced, media puppet !
This thread is soooo long I can’t keep up. But there is an interesting web site that will give you an idea how each candidates “tax cuts” will REALLY impact you.
go to www.taxclarity.com
I did, and it enforced my pick!!
Snowbird: “Go BUSH! I don’t want somebody bossing me around the rest of my life. I’ll do what makes me a good person without the LAW!”
Snowbird – you’re not a Republican, you’re an anarchist. In fact, you sound like an off-the-grid survivalist. Do you really think that if bush is elected you’ll get to smoke whereever you want again? That you’ll be able to drive at any speed with or without a seatbelt? that you won’t pay taxes? That you will not be expected to contribute to the good of the country, and not just the best interests of Snowbird? Ha!
And comparing a democratic administration to Nazis is just plain mind boggling… in fact, in the off-the-grid world, isn’t it to hell with poor people, handicapped people, any body not like oneself?
As for the estate tax – have you considered a little estate planning to avoid taxation? Perfectly allowable and very effective, so long as you trust your potential heirs.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wtywmn4:
[B]Gun control…diffinitely Gore!
[This message has been edited by wtywmn4 (edited 10-20-2000).][/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Gun control is being able to hit what you aim at. I doubt Gore could hit the broad side of a horse barn.
Thank You Heather-
I think many people are fooled into thinking the candidates are actually being honest. Yes, Mr. Bush and Gore both sound fabulous. They are well trained. BUT THEY ARE BOTH TELLING LIES. Look at their records and decide. Remember, words are cheap.
Just my opinion.
Okay, so who will be better for the horse industry? We have run the gamat of education, touched briefly on taxes, done pro-life, no death penalty thing, environment, take Congress back, stop driving gas guzlers, but nowhere have we really touched on the who, what or when will benefit our industry?
This is one of the best threads we’ve had in a long time. Not only do we have very witty writers amongst us, but very provocative ones as well…Thanks 
In response to Snowbird’s question about Gore and Bush’s college grades, there was an interesting article posted on MSNBC yesterday - it may surprise you who the better student actually was… http://www.msnbc.com/news/476109.asp?0nm=1HR
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hobson:
Great - I agree. So, if one of these guys does not have a rap sheet, they can buy a gun easily and legally. How do we prevent it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
We do NOT prevent it! This is America. Innocent until proven guilty.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
When I think of this situation, I mostly have in mind domestic violence. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you have been charged with domestic violence, or have a restraining order against you, you cannot purchase a hand gun.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
As a gun control advocate, I am willing to curtail the freedom to own an injurious object for the sake of overall public safety.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The list of things that would fall under such a category is endless. Would you give up your car? What about your right to have a swimming pool?
[This message has been edited by Twister (edited 10-29-2000).]
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by magnolia:
I really think all of these people (Bush, Gore, Nader, and the whole lot) are sickening narcissists that can’t hold a real job. Yeah, I’ll vote, but I really wish they’d all catch a 2 year virus that knocked 'em out for 2 years so the smart, normal people could get things done.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The problem is that “normal people” are not power hungy (or whatever) enough to put up with all the BS associated with running for public office. Unfortunately, the elction process itself tends to screen out the “normal” people.
Hey guys, the 40% out of your income does not all go to the poor. Only like 5% goes to those types of programs. The rest pays for other crap.
Corporations like McDonalds and ADM get more in subsidies than all that is spent on poor people. I say we cut subsidies to corporations and people that can work.
BTW, did you know that when we log our National Forests, corporations pay a nominal fee (not nearly the cost of the worth of the trees), and TAXPAYERS pay to have the logging roads built. Normally, by the time all is said and done, taxpayers paid more for the logging roads than they got for their trees. Pretty sad, eh? I mean, if your gonna chop 'em, let’s at least make money or break even.
I believe the nail was struck on the head many posts ago. It is about the local level politicians and Congress.
I have given up thinking that this ONE individual has that much power to “run” this country and truly affect change. My God, it seems to me that as soon as someone is elected they are either “campaigning” for the next election, or defending themselves on some “criminal” charge brought by someone that didn’t want them elected in the first place.
Politics is politics and has certainly gotten a long way from representative government. It is now it’s own industry.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jumphigh83:
[B] When we are being basically told everything we can and can not do by the government I will know who to thank: all you socialist liberals. BTW, do read up on history and you will see that socailism doesn’t work. (China, USSR…) Just some food for thought.
[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hey, now! Don’t go callin’ my pal rockstar a socialist! rockstar, you may be a liberal, but you’re no socialist. I know socialists. Scialists are my friends. You’re no socialist. Poor Olaf Palme is rolling in his grave - you know, the one lined with the outrageously high Swedish liquor taxes. 
By the way, guys, y’know those German warmbloods everyone loves so much to import? Their breeding programs are state-supported. With TAXES! Hee-hee! I’m sure the same is true for the other European breeding programs. The US could get itself a decent domestic sport horse sooner if only we’d raise taxes enough to develop a national breeding farm, with similar exacting performance and quality standards.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by exyankeerider:
What branch of the military was he in ?
NONE
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Gore servred in Vietnam.
Bush never served in the military
I’ve worked my way up to membership in the highest tax bracket and I’m willing to pay even more in taxes to help those who are less fortunate and less lucky than I’ve been.
I suppose to many of you that either makes me a liberal, a socialist, a fool, or a nut. Well, so be it.
I really wish the Christian Coalition would get behind Pat Robertson again. Remember his bid for the presidency? I guess God didn’t make for the best campaign advisor in the world. What a laugh riot! Has anyone ever seen him in a good rant on the 700 Club? Imagine Pat’s voice squeaking a little here: “Ladeeeez and GENTlemen! Those - those - those HINDUS are really SATAN worshippers!!” I for one don’t want to lose my freedom to be entertained by far-out religious figures trying to break into politics.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sannois:
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by Kryswyn:
[B]No no no, you’ve missed the point Pwynn made (and I was coming to post!) To paraphrase Daddy Bush, “It’s the LYING, Stupid!”
Yeah, IT’S THE LYING, STUPID alright.
It’s “I invented the Internet, stupid.” It’s “I didn’t know it was a fund raiser” stupid. It’s “I discovered Love Canal”, stupid. It’s “There’s no controlling legal authority”, stupid. It’s “My mother-in-law’s prescription cost more than my dog’s”, stupid. It’s “Love Story was based on my life”, stupid. It’s “I’ve never told an untruth”, stupid. It’s “My mother used to sing me to sleep with the Union Label song”, stupid.
The democrats and the left wing main stream media have consistantly covered up, white washed and ignored the bold-faced, arrogant lies told by the moral degenerates they have inflicted on us. We have finally realized that you socialist tolitarians have one objective: to usurp our freedoms through deceit and subterfuge to enslave us to our own government. To do this, you HAVE to use practiced liars like Bill Clinton and Algore, STUPID.[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh please, are you old enough to remember the Grandaddy of all Liars? “I am NOT a Crook!” Richard M Nixon, who was ummm, let me see, a REPUBLICAN! Scandals in the oval office?? Does the word WATERGATE bring back painful memories? SHAME brought to the Presidency? Remember his resignation just prior to certain impeachment? Tricky Dick had to be PARDONED. Clinton couldn’t even be convicted by a Republican majority Congress!
You may not like his choice of bedmates and bedrooms. You may not like his inability to take responsibility for certain actions (neither do I!), but the 8 years of his presidency has brought prosperity to this country the likes of which have not been seen before. And don’t say “it was a republican that set the stage for that prosperity,” because if that were true, Clinton would have lost to Bush in 1992. The truth is Bush’s economic policies were a disaster and that’s the biggest reason he was voted out of office.
PS, I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and not believe you were calling me, personally, stupid but using it the way Bush Daddy did.
Well, Portia, Inverness… you are in Texas and DC, respectively… FIND OUT ABOUT THE CANDIDATES POSITION!!!
Enquiring minds need to know about their stand on PETF. My god, this election is deadlocked… this could be the deciding factor!
What bothers more then anything about the Democratic Party (and a lot of people’s attitudes in general) is: When did achieving the “American Dream” turn into an evil thing? Everyone agrees that this country was based on the principle that anyone (no matter what nationality or religion) could come here and earn a living and maybe a fortune. Why when someone achieves this dream does it become a bad thing??
I work hard and earn a very good living. I have several horses, a nice car, nice clothing and can gasp afford to do a lot of thing other people can’t. Why punish me with higher and higher taxes? Why vilify me? Why make me feel guilty because there are so many less fortunate then me? I have earned my way and I refuse to be made to feel like I should be ashamed of it!
Oh, and for the record, Bush may be a 40 watt bulb (personally I think he is much smarter then that) but at least he can tell the difference between fiction and reality:
FICTION: Al Gore recently claimed that his mother-in-law pays more than $100.00 for the arthritis medicine Lodine; and he claims that his dog takes the same medicine for $37.00, declaring “This is wrong!”
FACT: Gore’s aides were quick to apologize for Gore’s lie, saying the information was from a Democratic study. Washington newspapers also reported that Al Gore wasn’t even sure his mother-in-law was taking any
medication and wasn’t even sure she had arthritis. And, he doesn’t know
anything about his dog’s “arthritis.”
FICTION: Al Gore said his father, a senator, was a champion of civil rights during the 1960’s.
FACT: Gore’s father voted against the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964
and was a racist who was fond of using the “N” word.
FICTION: Al Gore said that his sister was the very first person to join
the Peace Corps.
FACT: By the time Gore’s sister joined the Peace Corps, there were already over 100 members.
FICTION: The same sister died of lung cancer years later and Gore vowed to never accept tobacco money as campaign contributions.
FACT: Just four years later, while campaigning for office, Gore spoke to
the tobacco industry and said he was one of them because “I’ve planted it, raised it, cut it, and dried it.” He raised over $100,000 in “reported” contributions.
FICTION: While running for office, Gore’s campaign literature claimed he
was a “Brilliant Student.”
FACT: Washington newspapers said he barely passed Harvard and consistently earned D’s and C’s.
FICTION: Gore claims an extensive knowledge of law as a result of his extensive study at law school.
FACT: Al Gore dropped out of law school.
FICTION: Gore claimed that his knowledge of God and spirituality came to complete fruition while “finishing” divinity school.
FACT: Al Gore dropped out of divinity school.
FICTION: Al Gore claimed responsibility for inventing the Internet in
the 1990’s.
FACT: Shocked scientists were quick to speak out, explaining that the
Internet had been in widespread use by government and educational institutions since the early 1970’s.
FICTION: Al Gore claimed the book “Love Story” was based on his life and Tipper’s.
FACT: Author Erich Segal called a press conference to deny his claim.
(Couldn’t he at least lie about a love story where his sweetheart doesn’t die?")
FICTION: Gore claimed that as a reporter for a Nashville newspaper, his stories led to the arrests of numerous corrupt criminals.
FACT: He later apologized for his claim and actually said it was untrue
(also known as lying).
FICTION: Gore claims to increase diversity in the staff that follows him daily, especially among blacks.
FACT: Black members of the Secret Service are suing because they claim they are not being promoted to positions guarding the Vice President.
FICTION: Al Gore said he was the first to discover the Love Canal nuclear accident.
FACT: The incident was already discovered, being investigated, and covered widely in the press for many months before Gore was aware of it.
FICTION: Gore said just recently that if elected president, he would put
harsh sanctions on the sleazy producers of Hollywood’s extreme sex and violence.
FACT: Just six days later, Gore attended a fundraiser by Hollywood producers and radical gay activists where he told them that he would only pretend to “nudge them” if elected. He raised over $4 million.
FICTION: Al Gore said he built his Tennessee home with his bare hands.
FACT: Totally false!
FICTION: Al Gore says parents should not have a choice between private and public schools because public schools are far better.
FACT: Al Gore attended private school and he has sent his children to private schools.
FICTION: Al Gore remembers his mother lulling him to sleep as a baby by
singing the popular ditty, “Wear The Union Label”.
FACT: The popular ditty was created by the unions when Gore was 27 years old.
FICTION: Al Gore claimed to co-sponsor the McCain-Feingold Campaign Reform Act.
FACT: The Act was not sponsored until he had been out of office for over a year.
FICTION: Al Gore claims to be instrumental in keeping gas prices low.
FACT: Gore has voted on numerous occasions to raise the tax on gasoline.
In his book “Earth In The Balance” Gore claims that the nation’s Number One enemy is the internal combustion engine. (That’s the motor in your vehicle that gets you to work and takes your kids to school)
FICTION: Gore pretends to champion the rights of poor women to be tested
regularly for breast cancer with the most modern technology.
FACT: While giving a speech on the subject in September, Gore didn’t know what a mammogram was.
FICTION: AL Gore promised Florida’s senior citizens that they would finally have low-cost drugs with no interference from government.
FACT: Gore’s plan calls for the creation of a huge federal agency that would tell you which doctor you are allowed to see in order to get the “special rates.”
FACT: Al Gore told NBC’s Lisa Meyers that he had never told a lie. When Meyers pressed harder, “You’ve never told a lie?!” Gore said, “Not that I know of.” SOUND FAMILIAR?
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hobson:
Aw, rockstar, sorry I’m such a frustration for you! I like you, and don’t wish to make you crazy. You are absolutely right about the winner-take-all electoral system - as I’ve said in a past thread, I’m a misplaced parliamentarian aching for proportional representation (Lani Guinier, where are you when I need you!) I feel so impotent watching the rightward shift we’ve discussed, and I just don’t feel like supporting the shift just to win is the answer. For me, anyway. On most issues, voting for Gore does not feel much different than voting for Bush. I have to vote my conscience. Even if Bush gets elected, (and I refuse to accept resonsibility if that happens - it means the DP didn’t do a good enough job, not that I “stole” the votes) there are ways to deal with it. Heck, the Republicans have mobilized very effectively in congress to block many of Clinton’s and the democrats’ initiatives. The democrats can do the same. Funding for social-service non-profits will go up, since well-to-do liberals who stopped contributing during the Clinton years will feel guilty and begin giving again. The American public will realize their blunder and elect Wellstone in 2004.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh Hobson you are not a frustration for me… ok… well… yeah, you are… but not in a bad way! 
My frustration with Snowbird… now that’s in a bad way. I just don’t don’t DON’T understand republicans like her. I do understand where you, Hobson, are coming from… I just am frustrated that it has to be that you can’t be comfortable as a democrat and that you can’t vote for Gore when the alternative is so much worse. 
Now… about all the candidate bashing… to all of you who keep ranting on about grades and stuttering and all of that worthless
sh*t… COME ON!!! Get a life! You guys are the people who have turned poltics into what it has become.
If I had to say what my dream job was I would say it was to be a United States Senator. Nothing would make me happier than to go into public service as an elected representative and make a difference in this country. I think being a public servant is one of the most noble professions. Yeah… it’s the most corny thing ever… but it really is my dream. I see that there is so much wrong and I want to do everything I can to change that. But realistically? Realistically I say “yeah right” to the notion of going into public service and seeking elected office. Why? Because of people like you guys. I could never handle the brutal humiliation and the pure torture that we put our elected officals through. I could never handle having a thread like this circulating with people who really don’t know anything (except for what they read or heard on some newshow) debating my college transcript and measuring me by it. Let me tell you… if you looked at my college transcript you would not be too impressed. And yet, I hardly feel like my transcript reflects who I am or accurately measures my intelligence.
I tell you, it deeply, deeply saddens me that I don’t see my dream as remotely possible… I don’t think I could hold up to the scrutiny of being a Senator’s wife, let alone a Senator. I decided a long time ago that my life in politics would never involve a starring role, but rather, the role of the woman behind the scenes. I’ll be the one standing next to the candidate instead of actually BEING the candidate… it’s a lot safer in the shadows. Pretty pathetic huh?
Political candidates are expected to be these people who have made no mistakes and who are these absolute pillars of perfection. Such people don’t exist… don’t we all know that??? Yet time and time again we crucify our public figures for the most minute and insignificant things. Even when what we criticize politicians for is something of more substance and merit (in terms of how it reflects on the person)… it still is almost always the case that the facts aren’t straight and it is NONE of our business anyway.
Attack them on their record… attack them on one of their stands… but I will NEVER NEVER understand the PERSONAL attacks that so many people actually seem to take pleasure in launching on politicians.
George Bush and Al Gore are both intelligent men who love this country and truely want to do right by it and see it advance further. I am sorry, but anyone who believes otherwise is a fool. No one puts themselves through the Hell that presidential candidates do just for the perks. They both come from different perspectives and have different goals… but nevertheless, they stand united by their love for the United States and everything that it stands for. I don’t like Bush much… I don’t think he will make a good President and I most certainly don’t agree with his agenda and platform. And that is why I will always fight him… but you won’t see me going on and on about rumoured mistakes… I will rant and rave about his stand on issues like abortion, education, gun control, taxes, etc. I don’t doubt for one second that he is a very good and decent man who means well. People like Snowbird, with all of their personal attacks and muckrucking, drag politics through the dirt. I did not mean that as a direct attack against Snowbird… I mean to use her as an example of what so many people out there are doing… especially the media.
all right… that’s enough for now!
did anyone see the west wing last night? you know the last scene with the republican strategist? if you did see it then what the scene meant is what i am struggling and failing to say here!
