[QUOTE=MoJo;5023962]
For what it’s worth: There are numerous shades of gray between the bleeding-heart, tree-hugging, animal rights activist position and yours. Animal welfare is one such position. Individual responsibility is another.[/QUOTE]
:yes:
don’t be so stupid. She wouldn’t be in jail. It’s not against the law to send a horse to slaughter.
It has already been proven that horses she trained went to slaughter through her doing. She just went through the back door to do it. It has also been determined there is no 4-H lady who accepts her broken down race horses.
No one here is jealous of Stephanie Beattie. I can’t imagine anyone who would want to be like her.
[QUOTE=SwtVixen;5024538]
I keep reading and re-reading your posts PDR, and curious for your reasoning on writing here.
You openly state you support slaughter –
You openly feel its someone elses responsibility to adopt, rehome, retrain retiring horses, in any condition they may be; not the owner’s responsibility.
You have confessed for SB of her past actions sending horses to slaughter, with knowledge. (changing now doesnt change the past)
You dont seem to feel past actions need accountability…
and you are lacking a platform.
Did I miss anything?
Oh yes, a thank you for validating SB’s actions which we all knew were factual, just needing a little more testimony.[/QUOTE]
I did not confess anything for anyone-- I don’t know what SB did with her other horses-- all I know is what is being done with this one, and that’s the only one I am worried about-- he is going to New Vocations sometime this week. Don’t go around saying I gave testimony about something---- I did no such thing, nor will I, as I have no knowledge as to what happened to the other horses-- my concern is for this one.
I only said that she was not sending this horse to the kill pen-- I have no idea what happened to any of the others other than the two that she and Don Brown sent to New Vocations earlier in the year.
Frankly, when it comes down to it-- what happens to the horses in SB’s care is truly none of my business, the only horses that are my business are the ones that come into my care-- and they are the only ones I will concern myself with-- I know for a fact that I have not sent a horse to slaughter ever, nor will I, but if others do, then that’s on them-- I can’t take in their horses, I have enough of my own retirees to worry about-- and just so we are all clear—NOT ONE of my racehorses is run until they break down-- I stop on them before that happens-- so to say that I don’t care is a bunch of crap-- because I do. The horse I worked the Kentucky Derby on this year is now 25, still in light work, and happier than when he was standing in the pasture doing nothing, and is still sound after more than 100 lifetime outs and 19 years of being a pony horse, so don’t even try to say that I don’t care about my horses-- he will be with me until he stops breathing, and then he will be cremated and stay with me until I stop breathing, when we will be scattered together.
[QUOTE=pinkdiamondracing;5025710]
I did not confess anything for anyone-- I don’t know what SB did with her other horses-- all I know is what is being done with this one, and that’s the only one I am worried about-- he is going to New Vocations sometime this week. Don’t go around saying I gave testimony about something---- I did no such thing, nor will I, as I have no knowledge as to what happened to the other horses-- my concern is for this one.
I only said that she was not sending this horse to the kill pen-- I have no idea what happened to any of the others other than the two that she and Don Brown sent to New Vocations earlier in the year.
Frankly, when it comes down to it-- what happens to the horses in SB’s care is truly none of my business, the only horses that are my business are the ones that come into my care-- and they are the only ones I will concern myself with-- I know for a fact that I have not sent a horse to slaughter ever, nor will I, but if others do, then that’s on them-- I can’t take in their horses, I have enough of my own retirees to wrrry about-- and just so we are all clear—NOT ONE of my retirees is run until they break down-- I stop on them before that happens-- so to say that I don’t care is a bunch of crap-- because I do. The horse I worked the Kentucky Derby on this year is now 25, still in light work, happier than he was standing in the pasture, and is still sound after more than 100 lifetime outs and 19 years of being a pony horse, so don’t even try to say that I don’t care about my horses-- he will be with me until he stops breathing, and then he will be cremated and stay with me until I stop breathing, when we will be scattered together.[/QUOTE]
Those of us who know you IRL know you are a nice person, and take very good care of your animals. What some anonymous posters on the internet think is irrelevant. They don’t hear what you are trying to say, so don’t beat your head against the wall.
[QUOTE=Las Olas;5025763]
Those of us who know you IRL know you are a nice person, and take very good care of your animals. What some anonymous posters on the internet think is irrelevant. They don’t hear what you are trying to say, so don’t beat your head against the wall.[/QUOTE]
Thanks— it’s nice to know someone “gets” it!!!:sadsmile::sadsmile:
PDR, I get what you’re saying, and think this thread has gotten a lot of people really het up.
I’m not sure what I think of the whole thing. I do know I lost track of a lovely grey gelding several years ago named Platinum General, who last raced under SB in 2007. The race records indicate he “faltered” then I never saw or heard anything of him again. I would like to think he really did go to a 4H lady.
Either way, I think it’s pretty clear that you’re not condoning anything that may have happened in the past, and are just trying to point out that sometimes people change.
About the horse that’s now going to New Vocations, I’m glad he is. But I think that is such a ridiculous thing about racing and the claiming game - this part isn’t SB’s fault at all, but whoever was racing that horse, and probably injecting it so it would run sound (probably with the intent of getting rid of it via claiming)? That person sucks, IMO. I wish they’d change some rules with the claiming game so that people wouldn’t be financially rewarded by doing that… I dunno, the horse has to pass a post-claim vet exam or the claim is voided, or something. The responsibility for that horse was with whoever broke him, and it sucks that horses like this get dumped on others (whether it’s other trainers, or rescues, or whoever.)
I just have to say, in 12 years of doing OTTB transitioning, I have never, ever, even once, been approached by a “kid in 4H” for a TB. Ever. Not once.
And in my many years of transitioning retired tb’s into the private sector… I have Never considered selling to 4-H or even PC, I sold to IHSA, but they were certainly advanced students under more than competent instructors.
4-h really has no purpose for tb’s.
I’ve been reading along with this thread for quite some time. I’ve not spoken up mostly because I’m not very involved in racing. I have a very small tie to it and I enjoy watching but that’s about it.
However, I can’t help but ask what this thread is all about? I know what it started out to be but it’s become, well, a finger pointing snarkfest. I can’t help but wonder if this is really helping the horses?
I don’t know SB or MG or anyone other trainers at Penn or any other racetrack. Not personally anyway. What I do know, what everyone “knows”, is what these and many other trainers have done with their “unwanted” horses. But is rehashing what they have done really fixing the future? No!!
Yes, they need to admit what they did in order to “take the first step…” but lets for arguments sake say they don’t ever admit it. Can the future still be fixed? Yes!! This thread should be hashing out options for these trainers, putting together people who can make a difference etc. Pointing fingers at one trainer isn’t getting anyone anywhere. Coming down on one poster for their opinion and spending all the energy and time on attacking that person also isn’t helping the horses.
Please for one minute consider the facts of business. Every company has rules. Every company has a bottom dollar. Every company has disposable assets. Unfortunately horse racings rules, bottom dollare and disposable assets are basically summed up as the horses. Tracks don’t make it easy on these trainers to keep horses until they find better homes. Foster care would take a lot of time for trainers to organize-time they don’t have and can’t afford to “waste”. Is shipping horses to slaughter the right solution to this problem? NO! It’s up to us, the voice of the horse, to find the right solution.
However wrong I think slaughter is really isn’t the point. Fact is, business is business no matter what that business actually is. If each trainer were emotionally involved they most likely wouldn’t be very successful trainers. Doesn’t mean they have to send horses to slaughter but I can see how they would turn a blind eye and “pretend” it doesn’t happen. Now it’s time to help them help the horses. The tracks/racing as a sport need to fix their end (which they are slowly doing). As they do that, the trainers will learn to follow suit. As the trainers learn to make changes to how they do their business the masses, us, need to be there for the horses.
So, how about this thread gets back on the resolution track and leaves the station where it’s going nowhere while it rehashes the past which is just a waste of precious time?? Anyone up for trying to resolve the problems???
TBs for 4-H
<<<SwtVixen : “4-h really has no purpose for tb’s”. >>>
Hi All,
I hate to disagree, but I have successfully transitioned several OTTBs from the track to 4-H programs and students. It’s not always easy, sometimes it doesn’t work, but occasionally I hit a home run.
It all depends on the horse, the rider, and the 4-H leader. The times it has worked have given me such a wonderful feeling of accomplishment and happiness. To see a 4-Her mounted on an OTTB who just raced a few months before is such a thrill.
One horse I bred and had at the track, Bobcat, LOVED his 4-H gal. They developed a bond that went deep and brought joy to all who saw them compete. Bobcat, as a 4 year-old, even qualified for Eastern States, a remarkable accomplishment. The story has a sad ending though - Bobcat colicked at 6 and could not be saved. I cried for days.
On another topic - a few pages back AC4H was being discussed. The initials stand for ‘Another Chance For (4) Horses.’ It is not related to 4-H. And, Christy, the head of the organization who took a beating on this board, helped me so much I can’t begin to explain.
Hallie I. McEvoy
Racing Dreams, LLC
“Places to go, people to annoy.”
[QUOTE=haligator;5026691]
<<<SwtVixen : “4-h really has no purpose for tb’s”. >>>
Hi All,
I hate to disagree, but I have successfully transitioned several OTTBs from the track to 4-H programs and students. It’s not always easy, sometimes it doesn’t work, but occasionally I hit a home run.
It all depends on the horse, the rider, and the 4-H leader. [/QUOTE]
I’m with Haligator on this. Doesn’t always or even often work. But it can & when it does, it is a beautiful thing.
There is no question that lots of TBs can and do work for 4h’ers and PC’ers-- the key word is “transitioning”- these horses are going directly to some “4H” club- who shall remain nameless I guess, we havent been able to find out who it might be- no transitioning mentioned…
For those who think Penn National is unique on this policy, check out Sufferin’ Downs
http://www.bluemassgroup.com/diary/19497/suffolk-downs-ended-zero-tolerance-policy-on-horse-slaughter-a-year-ago-but-still-takes-credit
Maybe it’s time for all of these tracks to just get rid of these un-enforcable policies.
Nice try, makes for good press but they have no intention of ever seriously enforcing any of it.
Profidia that has been my belief all along. Nothing but a press release designed to drum up some PR. That is of course excluding the few tracks that do offer an alternative like Finger Lakes and Philly Park. Its one thing to tell someone not to do something, its another thing completely to say don’t do that, but you can do this. Anything short of that is lip service.
haligator>It all depends on the horse, the rider, and the 4-H leader.
Absolutely true! And that was point, that it takes special people, they are rare -- but to think of just openly and initially marketing green ottbs directly to(any)kids --- just isnt realistic or safe for either horse or rider.
As life is known to have a bell curve in all events --- there are those expections and exceptional riders, talented enough to reach into the heart of a ottb and find the best talents of all.
When the PN retraining program has horses ready for rehoming, it will be interesting to keep a study of what kind of rider? what kind of discpline? what skill level is most common of new owners? and how long did it take to retrain the horse to that *sale*? Those will be some interesting facts.[QUOTE=Laurierace;5026950]
Profidia that has been my belief all along. Nothing but a press release designed to drum up some PR. That is of course excluding the few tracks that do offer an alternative like Finger Lakes and Philly Park. Its one thing to tell someone not to do something, its another thing completely to say don’t do that, but you can do this. Anything short of that is lip service.[/QUOTE]
Correct.
So for those who have lost track of where the thread has gone here’s where we’re at. Penn National has an equally un enforcable policy. However, they revoked Delahoussaye’s stalls over it, tried real hard to throw out Murray Rojas forcing her to go to much trouble to prove she didn’t do as they said she did. Caught Stephanie Beatty red-handed and did nothing except bend over backwards to defend her. The corrupt way that track operates allows them to selectively apply this policy to some and not others.
This is the way that track works. This is in keeping with the topic. Posting links for killer plant vids and going off on emotion laden tangents is not. This is why me and a few others have urged the anti-killer plant crusaders to start another thread about that.
Here’s an idea for the rehabbing and what would make these guys marketable.
TB Retrain wish list:
- Clean legged, sane individuals of any age:
A. Dressage level 1
B. Hunter baby greens
C. Maybe jumping low level course only
D. Cross Country work
These are the horses that don’t need that much of a letdown and if you’re lucky already have a decent w/t and if possible a canter. These horses qualify for the young horse awards in the Dressage and paired with the amateur could do the low level dressage, a chance at the great hunters and beginning eventing. - Clean legged, need let down individuals of any age:
A. Cross Country work
B. Lounge line work
C. Trail riding
These are the horses that need a bit of a letdown but are not dangerous to the expert handler. - Need rehab and stall rest
A. Work on ground manners
B. Trick train
These horses are limited by injury but they can still get one on one training and anything that will make them stand out will be helpful. - Pasture Sound Only
A. Babysitter
B. Trick Train
Be realistic about this group and only the stellar individuals have a place here. A gelding that can put manners on the colts is invaluable to the breeders but not many others. Trick Training is great but can he be sound enough to do outreach work?
Now I rode Western for most of my life and I am sure there might be one or two TBs that would be competitive at those events but I doubt it. They just aren’t built for what the QHs can do.
Just some ideas and I am steadily working on increasing my knowledge about OTTBs and what if anything would make them attractive to riders or trainers.
FWIW and IME, Delaware Park comes down pretty hard on people selling horses to slaughter. I know of several people who have been removed from the track. they just don’t tend to advertise it, which tells me they are not worried about the PR.
Leilatgrass,
OTTBs are extremely marketable to the public before they are broken down and crippled.
I have a list a mile long of people who are looking for clean-legged/breathing sound geldings who don’t crib.
The people who are dumping horses for slaughter either don’t want to deal with the public, or know that the horses are so trashed that they are good for nothing.
SwtVxn, those facts are there for the taking, just ask the groups who have been doing it for years and years–CANTER, New Vocations, MAHR, etc.
[QUOTE=Profidia;5026915]
For those who think Penn National is unique on this policy, check out Sufferin’ Downs
http://www.bluemassgroup.com/diary/19497/suffolk-downs-ended-zero-tolerance-policy-on-horse-slaughter-a-year-ago-but-still-takes-credit
Maybe it’s time for all of these tracks to just get rid of these un-enforcable policies.
Nice try, makes for good press but they have no intention of ever seriously enforcing any of it.[/QUOTE]
The MA casino and slots bill is very agenda-driven and has created a lot of rancor, as well as propaganda. That article conveniently omits further steps Suffolk has taken to back up their anti-slaughter policies. Such mandatory requirements include: attendance at an education seminar on retiring horses; use of a uniform bill of sale for all horses changing hands; and the purchase of their own retirement farm, in addition to financial support of other retirement farms in MA. Canter NE is active there, perhaps one of their members can shed more light on whether Suffolk takes their policies seriously or not.
