Business Owner & Trainer Agreeemnt

[ncsuequine]

This might be a little long winded, so i apologize in advance.

I have a few questions about getting a good agreement put together between a business owner of a horse facility (doesn’t own the facility, just the horse business) and myself (trainer).

A little background. Current business has been in business for 3 or so years and at their current facility (leasing) for a year. Stall lease to facility owner is $150 per stall and as a rule in general there is no pasture boarding allowed. Facility is not that great, but could be cute if business owner, facility owner and trainer all worked together. Currently business owner and her kids manage the barn. Currently the business has a trainer that is teaching 90% of the lessons and trains a few of the boarded horses . Trainer has no horses. Barn owner HAD several lessons horses that were sustaining the lessons program, but in recent months there have been several lameness issues that have forced some to be retired. Trainer is currently making $20 per group student, $25 per private (group lessons are $35, privates are $50). So barn make roughly $15 per lesson. Boarder horses that are used in lessons are paid $10 each time used in lessons, which business owner and trainer split.

I am coming in to take the role as the head instructor as the current instructor is moving. I have three horses, two of which will be used in lessons and two friends moving with me that will pay full board, but also allow their horses to be used in the lesson program (for a $10 usage fee, which a cap up to $200 per month, so 20 lesson per month).

I am trying to figure out what is a fair arrangement for me and my horses. Business owner would like me to pay $300 per month (full board, but doesn’t include grain) + grain. Then take off $10 per usage fee when horses are used by other trainers. But when they are used by me I won’t get a usage fee, but I will be paid the same amount as the other trainers. So when I teach, I will make $20 per group student and $35 per private When the other trainers teach they will make $15 per group student and $30 per private. Plus her daughters are going to have access to all three of my horses (oldest daughter is interested in riding my OTTB project) in and out of lessons.

I don’t know how I feel about this arrangement. I feel like if I am paying full board somewhere, then I should get the entire amount of lesson money, especially when teaching off my own horses. If I was using one of the business owners horses, then I would expect to pay a usage fee (especially if I were getting all the lesson money). I will be doing all the scheduling (for all the instructors) and taking on some of the advertising/marketing role. So I kinda feel like business owner will have lesson work to do (I do scheduling, and advertising), have nice lesson horses for her other instructors to teach with (instructors that don’t have the expenses of horses), nice horses for her daughters to ride and show (while I pay for all their expenses), all while making money from my board, the lessons I am teaching, the students I am bringing with me and the boarders I am bringing with me.

Does that sound fair to you all? What kind of agreement would you suggest for this type of arrangement?

Thank you!

[clanter]

But when they are used by me I won’t get a usage fee,

Why? Is your horse not a horse?

Regardless of ownership the usage fee should be paid, the only advantage you have is that you can deprecate your stock as an asset and claim all expenses against income.

To me there are too many obligations in this to be worthwhile. Record keeping will be a mess… I would photograph each class to prove who was or wasn’t used

just my thoughts

[SolarFlare]

If I’m understanding this right, you’ll be paying full board for your horses, but the owner’s daughters get to ride and show YOUR horses at no cost to them? Apart from the lessons/usage fee issue, this just doesn’t sound fair at all. Why should you be subsidizing the daughters’ riding?

[findeight]

Sounds like a recipe for disaster if there are multiple trainers using your horses as lesson mounts plus the BMs kids having access? How are you planning to keep track of who uses your horses for lessons and who puts extra rides on them for free unless you are there 12-14 hours a day 7 days a week?

Do you HAVE to allow anybody else to use your horses in order to be there?

Set ups like this with multiple trainers operating under a BM who wants their kids to ride said trainers horses free and a third party actually owns the facility??? Breed an amazing amount of drama, negativity and opportunity to freely interpret contract terms and do whatever they want.

You want to train there, that’s fine, but I think those set ups are snake pits and this BM is leveraging free rides for her kids. That should not be a condition of operating your business out of that barn.

[gottagrey]

Sounds like you should keep your horses and clients where they are. As presented doesn’t appear to be a very equitable arrangement

[BeeHoney]

@ncsuequine;8769131

(oldest daughter is interested in riding my OTTB project) in and out of lessons.

I don’t know how I feel about this arrangement. I feel like if I am paying full board somewhere, then I should get the entire amount of lesson money, especially when teaching off my own horses. If I was using one of the business owners horses, then I would expect to pay a usage fee (especially if I were getting all the lesson money). I will be doing all the scheduling (for all the instructors) and taking on some of the advertising/marketing role. So I kinda feel like business owner will have lesson work to do (I do scheduling, and advertising), have nice lesson horses for her other instructors to teach with (instructors that don’t have the expenses of horses), nice horses for her daughters to ride and show (while I pay for all their expenses), all while making money from my board, the lessons I am teaching, the students I am bringing with me and the boarders I am bringing with me.

Sorry, some of this is unclear to me.

When you use someone else’s facility to run your own business out of (whether that facility is leased or owned by the current person) you should expect to pay some kind of a fee. Typically that fee is in the form of a facility fee tacked on to each lesson or training session. The rationale is that full boarders are a break even or loss leader business supported by lessons, training and sales. I think it is reasonably fair that you should pay the same amount of board as everyone else, unless you are bartering your training services for part of the board bill (which is a common practice).

If your horses are being used by another trainer for lessons as well as by you, that sounds suboptimal to me. The life of a lesson horse is difficult enough as it is. In any case, you should fairly be remunerated for the use of your horse each time it is used in a lesson not taught by you. If you are teaching the lesson, that cost is (should be) included in your lesson fee, and should go to you, but you should still be paying some kind of a facility fee to the business owner even when you are teaching on your own horses.

You should be reimbursed for any time you spend doing scheduling for other trainers, honestly that does seem like a bit of an issue, I really wouldn’t want to do other people’s lesson scheduling for them (other than laying out what hours each instructor had access to the shared facilities for lessons).

Regarding the BO’s daughters using your horses, I think this could go either way. How good of riders are they? You mention that your horse is a “project.” A project horse can gain a lot of value by being ridden by a competent youth rider in terms of mileage, reputation and exposure. I certainly wouldn’t expect a competent youth rider to pay for the privilege of riding a project horse. OTOH, if your horse has a decent amount of training it might be fair to expect some remuneration for the use of your horse. Also, I hope that you wouldn’t be expected to pay for any showing costs for the daughters. That would be unreasonable. And, you should be compensated for any teaching you do for the daughters, unless you are teaching them on a green horse where you are also benefitting (in which case you’d call it even).

If I were in your shoes I would go through each area and do a balance sheet of costs vs. income and see if the way things add up is overall acceptable to you. Sounds like it might not be an ideal situation overall.