Buying a horse from CANTER - Planning, Logistics and Budget?

I’ve been checking out CANTER horses online from time to time for well over a 15 years. My horse is now 27 (but in very good health and condition for his age), but he sadly won’t live forever - so someday, he will need a replacement. Because I like to really plan & budget for things in advance, it occurred to me that if I did fall in love with a CANTER horse, that I wouldn’t have the first idea of how to actually complete the logistics of the purchase, vetting, transport, etc. Just FYI, I’m in TN for geographic purposes. So here are my questions: [LIST=1]

  • I am aware that you need to make appointments to view a horse in advance and be very punctual to the apt. But do you just hook up your trailer and go cross country to see the horse or do you hire a local agent/trainer (through word of mouth or connections) to go see the horse and report back? What is the cost involved in having someone do this for you?
  • If you go yourself with your own trailer, typically do you take your SO or someone with you to haul the horse back? Traveling long distance with an unknown horse sounds daunting to me - but then, the farthest I've trailered is 3 hours (though I'm not a noob by any means with hauling and am comfortable on the interstate with a trailer).
  • Or do you fly in, rent a car, and arrange for shipping the horse back? I would assume hiring a shipper is best, but just thought I'd ask.
  • For a basic vet exam or full PPE, how do you know what vet to hire when you're from out of state? Or do you just use the trainers vet?
  • Can you ride the horses at the barn/track where they are stabled? Or does their insurance not allow that? Or does someone from the stable hop on and ride them for you?
  • If you can't ride the horse, do they allow lunging to see the horse trot and canter at least?
  • Do some/all of the barns/tracks provide any medical records/xrays of the horses or is that just hit & miss? Are these horses typically up to date on vaccinations and such?
  • Any trainers/barns to avoid?
  • What does a full PPE cost these days? And what exactly is included (full examination, blood work, soundness check, x-rays, etc.)?
  • I'd imagine a visit from your current/local vet is in order once your horse arrives at home as well, to vaccinate/worm (whatever is due or needed) and establish a base-line at his new home.
  • Is quarantine advised when the horse gets home? If you've only got one barn, and two pastures, and the horses already in those pastures can't be all put together (in order to free up a pasture), do you set up a new pasture for your new horse for 2 weeks or 30 days? I was thinking more along the lines of running an electric fence straight down the middle of my 4 acre front pasture, splitting it in two. But if the new horse needs to be completely separate, I'd need to plan for that (we have other areas we can fence in, but more $ involved in that and I'll need to plan for that).
  • Is it typical to start them on some type of ulcer guard meds when they arrive? Or do you just wait and see if they are needed?
  • Just out of curiosity, are there specific bloodlines people look for or avoid? [/LIST] I'd love to hear stories from those of you who have CANTER horses - the good stories, the bad stories and even the ugly stories. Trying to just start to lay out an idea and pre-budget. And I'm looking for a horse that can (or has potential to) jump - if that makes a difference in what you'd have done in the PPE or during an evaluation. And if there is something else I've forgotten, please chime in!

    Thanks in advance! :slight_smile:

  • No, you cannot ride horses at the track. If you’re there in the morning you may be able to see the horse jog or gallop, but it’s usually better for the trainers if you come after the morning training hours are over. Which means you’ll be able to see the horse walk and trot in hand, but that’s it. Odds are a TB at the track will have no idea how to lunge, and there isn’t anywhere to lunge at the track even if the horse knows how.

    Here’s my assumptions. I haven’t bought from canter, but I have owned many OTTBs fresh from the track…

    1 - I would NOT expect that the horses can longe.
    2 - I WOULD assume the horses can trailer very well.
    3 - If you are going to the track, bring a trailer and be prepared to take the horse home.
    4 - read all of the canter stuff. They have alot of adivce on how to do this which answers your questions.
    5 - I beleive folks will try to get the track vet to meet them when viewing the horse to do a quick PPE. It isn’t a big purchase, and personally I don’t have the vet look at them, I look at them, and decide if I am interested in rehabbing them or not, and you will be expecting to find dings, injuries new and old. A vet to tell you what they are so you can know how you will rehabilitate is a good idea, but personally I like to do that after the horse has been let down and had a chance for all his dings and pain to show up and I know more about his injuries myself. Then I’ll get a vet out to the barn, but if it were me I would expect that some of the injuries aren’t going to reveal themselves today, but over the let down period, and over time. I wouldn’t be expecting an enitrely sound horse.

    6 - I would build a strong paddock for the horse to stay alone. I do not put horses in with each other anyway, because I don’t want to pay for the vet bills when they injure themselves, but I would not want a horse off the track who will be taking 3 months or more to be let down in with any other horses. It wouldn’t be fair to him. I would keep him away from nose touching for 3 months or so. Alot of biting and damage can be done over the fence. I would NOT use hot wire. I would use a tall, solid board fence he can’t get into trouble with.

    I question how much you know about OTTB horses, with your questions. You put them on omeprazole if they are showing signs of ulcers like any horse. Remember these are baby horses, and they don’t have a whole catalogue of experience to draw upon, so everything they encounter with you will probably be brand new. Do not complicate it by asking them to go into an existing herd of horses. But I would have thought you would know that anyway. You will be reteaching them everything. I am assuming you know how to handle and manage OTTB horses, since that’s what you want. I love teaching them from the start, but you really have to know what you are doing.

    For example, their feet will be so bad and need proper shoing for several cycles before I would ask them to do anything like move under saddle or longe.

    As you know, these horses have never been asked to move in a small circle, like an outdoor arena, much less a longe line, so don’t put them on a longe line, you will scare the dickens out of them. They don’t know how to carry themselves, or use their bodies in such a way that they would balance. For example, one OTTB that I had, the first time I trotted him in the outdoor arena, he trotted straight into the end rail of the arena. He had no concept of making that kind of tight turn. As you know, also, contact for them means go, so they need to learn in tiny baby steps everything.

    If you are buying at the end of the meet, you will be going to the track to view them. If you are buying after the meet, the horses will have already gone back to their farms, or sold on to auctions, so where you view the horses depends on when you will looking at them.

    I bought a trainer-listed horse on CANTER (Illinois) in 2013. I’m with @Ambitious Kate wondering how much experience you have with OTTBs. By no means saying you’re not qualified, but if you’re new to OTTBs I would recommend you get with a reputable trainer that has experience taking them directly off the track.

    There’s so much more that goes into it after you get them, so if you’re not knowledgeable about OTTBs, I can’t stress enough that it’s worth working with a good, experienced trainer. Many horses will need a few months–one year of let down time to stop being “track tight” in their bodies and to let other injuries heal. Other horses will come off the track fresh as a daisy and mentally ready for a new job. It just depends, and that’s not even getting into the riding nuances and retraining that has to be done. If you have experience then please disregard.

    Does it have to be a CANTER OTTB? Because another suggestion if you happen to lack experience with horses directly off the track is to source an OTTB through a trainer or someone who specializes in selling OTTBs. One person I can think of immediately is Jessica Redman at Benchmark Sport Horses. Pretty much guaranteed to have a quality horse at just about any time, already starting their new career. You’ll have to spend a little bit more (not much, prices are all very reasonable), but a lot of the hard work in filtering out the chaff is done for you. No having to deal with track trainers; it’s a much more standard sale experience. If you ask around there might be some recommendations for someone closer to you. Even if there is, I’d still message Benchmark as it’s worth the trip to DE.

    Also the Maker’s Mark Secretariat Center in Lexington, KY, or Mid-Atlantic Horse Rescue are two organizations that come to mind that have multiple horses available to try at any time, that you actually can get on. Just something to consider, especially if you’re looking for a horse with confirmed jump potential. A good seller like Redman or the above two orgs will have had horses through a jump chute and (likely) undersaddle and can speak more intelligently to their jumping abilities/potential than a race trainer or track vet.

    But to answer your questions…

    1. Many take the trailer with them. Some don’t.
    2. It is entirely dependent on your comfort level. Personally I don’t like to haul by myself more than a few hours, it’s just more hassle to me. If it’s outside 6-7 hours I’m probably hiring a shipper out of comfort for the horse and convenience for me.
    3. I flew down to St. Louis, got a hotel and a rental car, stayed the night, and saw horses at Fairmount the next morning before flying back that afternoon. I hired a shipper that came a week or two later. I was lucky that the trainer was lovely and happy to hang on to the horse for me while we waited on the shipper. Do NOT expect other race trainers to be that way, some will want the horse gone as soon as possible as they can use that stall for another horse.
    4. If you’re not spending a ton of money on the horse it probably doesn’t make sense to do a full PPE at upwards of/over $1K. But you can if you can arrange for another vet. I used one of the track vets (not the trainer’s vet) to do a basic exam and flexions on two horses.
    5. NO riding at the track unless you have a jockey’s license. You’ll likely get to see the horse walk/jog down a shedrow or a road. If you’re lucky and coordinate with the trainer, you might get to see the horse work on the track, but only if the horse is still in training and only if the trainer is willing to let you. This is a lot of being able to judge by your eye - again, if you’re not well versed in judging horses from the ground for athletic potential, it is highly encouraged to bring someone with you who can. Even if you have to pay them - a couple hours of an experienced trainer who knows OTTBs can go a long way.
    6. Again, hard no on the lunging. Either the horses won’t know how, or there won’t be a place to do it. So, learn to look at walk/jogs in a straight line. I got lucky as there were some round pens on the backside, one was empty and we threw my guy in there and got to see him move. However, do not expect that to be the case when you go.
    7. Will depend on trainer. I would expect them to be up to date per track requirements, but unless the owner is happy to play ball don’t expect a medical history on the horse. Especially if it’s been claimed multiple times and passed through several hands - the current owner/trainer may not know the history.
    8. N/A
    9. I bought my new horse (TB, not off the track) last year and did a full PPE (xrayed all joints, pulled blood, the works) to the tune of $1300. I’m sure that will vary depending on location and vet. Conversely, my two extremely basic PPEs at the track five years ago cost me $250.
    10. Yes…just common sense.
    11. Up to you, mine went to a boarding barn and was not quarantined.
    12. Some trainers to a 28-day round of GastroGard or UlcerGard (omeprazole) for everything off the track just in case. Other trainers wait to see if they might need it. My guy cribbed, so I ran him through the 28-day full round and kept extra tubes on hand in case we were traveling to shows, etc. After the initial 28-day course he didn’t need it regularly.
    13. I don’t know bloodlines so the best advice is to do your homework. Whatever sport/discipline you favor, research which bloodlines are more popular. Research which lines throw the qualities you like in a horse. There are a LOT of threads on that subject here on COTH and some real experts too, especially the eventing forum where OTTB discussions are more popular. Or, if you’re like me, just ignore the bloodlines completely and judge by the individual.

    IF you do end up going to the track yourself, please always keep in mind that you’re on the trainer’s time. They are NOT on yours. Hence the need to be prompt and on schedule. But also, don’t expect them to drop everything they’re doing and cater to you and treat you like a sport horse client wanting to drop cash. You may have to fight for their attention or they may seem like they have other things to be doing (because they do!), especially if you see them in the morning when they are trying to get their string out for training. Don’t waste their time.

    I ended up buying my horse from the World’s Most Perfect Trainer who actually did clear his morning to spend it with me and show his one horse. He got his string done early so that by 9am he had all the time in the world for me, but he was selling a special horse and he is a very kind-hearted guy. The other trainer in another shedrow was the exact opposite - large string, very busy and while not unpleasant, made it quite clear he was not going to spend any extra time telling me about his horse. He quite literally threw a halter and a lead rope at me on his way to the track and said “have at it,” so I got in the stall with the little saint of a 3 year old and hung out for about 20 minutes before the trainer came back in and hopped on the horse bareback for a quick demo. Then he walked away and told me to let him know. The horse was cute, but the first horse ended up being my choice and if you knew our story, you’d know what that was the best decision of my life.

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    There are two ways to buy a “CANTER” horse:

    You buy a horse FROM CANTER. These horses are in CANTERS retraining program, have been let down, have been evaluated and have started retraining. You can test ride them, they probably longe. They are often not that much more than buying directly off the track.

    Or you can buy a horse from a trainer on the track. These are CANTER LISTED horses. CANTER lists them for sale but generally has zero to do with the actual transaction. If they at the track, you absolutely cannot ride them. Training other than being a racehorse is mixed. There is more risk, particularly if you’re not familiar with OTTBs.

    It sounds like you might want to look at the CANTER owned horses. Or find an OTTB from someone who’s done the initial evaluation and retraining.

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    Unless you’re very experienced with fresh off the track TBs I’d look at the many organizations who let them down and restart. The small increase in price will be very worth it IMHO. I’ve worked with After the Races in the past and would recommend them. They recently moved to MD.

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    Everyone said what I would have typed in spades… that being said… you have a lot of good questions but I am wondering where your trainer is, to answer all of these for you? I would definitely recommend you look at an OTTB with someone who has taken and retrained (successfully!!) several OTTBs. It is not an endeavor to do alone without guidance.

    I used to volunteer / take listings for CANTER. Simkie pointed out what I was going to - is this a trainer listing, or a CANTER owned horse? Usually different. The CANTER owned horse likely was in a bad situation and a volunteer stepped in to foster + retrain. We actually took home a CANTER-foster from Suffolk Downs (Rudy S) and ended up keeping him… it’s been about 14 years or so. He was everything as advertised and has been a very nice horse. Sadly he is only servicably sound due to a non-race track injury. AKA Pasture Puff… but he’s cute… :wink:
    [LIST=1]

  • You should always make an appointment - and show up to it. Don't be a tire kicker. Tell the trainer what you're looking for, and if possible, schedule to look at more than one horse. Some trainers will have several that need to be rehomed, or they'll know of horses from other trainers that ran out of conditions or need to retire. Always go with your own Trainer. You really need to have experience looking at OTTBs on the track - not just experience looking at horses in general. There are so many things I have seen even good horsemen (but not experienced OTTB owners) miss in prospects - from major soundness issues, brewing injuries, and sometimes even passing on a "plain brown wrapper" that looked a little ouchy (superficial ouchy) that ended up being a show-stopper once let down...
  • I take my trailer but that is local. I usually have a few horses in mind I want to look at, but have contacts and familiarity with the track/people (Suffolk, and Finger Lakes)
  • Personally if it's long distance I prefer hiring a shipper.
  • Ask CANTER for their recommended vet.
  • No. You cannot ride at shed-rows. If you come early enough you might be able to see the horse work out and be handled.
  • No. They will jog in hand for you. Generally at max you will be able to see the horse in the stall, and jog in hand. It takes a good developed eye to see flaws or potential in such a small window.
  • Some do - there's a lot of mom+pop trainers that love their horses and just want the best for them and will provide as much detail as they can.
  • Depends on area.
  • Depends on area, region. IME I'd at minimum do flexions, and x-ray pasterns, hoof, and stifle - and now neck/back. That'll easily run you $1000+.
  • A baseline soundness exam is invaluable for when the inevitable lameness comes up.
  • It wouldn't hurt. We usually quarantine for 30 days in a similar set-up; they get to spend their first week in a stall and then get turned out in a medical paddock for the remainder of 30 days, then turned out with the herd. They all acclimate very well, 24/7 turnout.
  • Nexium wouldn't hurt.
  • Not really. There are specific bloodlines to look for, depending on your discipline or temperament you want. In general I really like the AP Indys+ sons, love Giant's Causeway, and look for Private Account for soundness and sweet dispositions... but for the most part the TB is a very willing and sensible horse when let down and trained/handled appropriately. [/LIST]
  • Thanks for the answers. First, I want to say that I said “IF” I fell in love with a CANTER horse, I was wondering how it all worked. Of course I’d have a trainer involved - no matter what my final decision was (CANTER horse or not). I’m no where near that point, which I evidently didn’t make clear. I was honestly just curious to hear how others had done it, and if they’d do it again. Any yes, I am aware there are two types of CANTER horses - I was referring to those specifically that were non-CANTER owned - and I should have specified that.

    I am a very much research/plan kind of person. I did read the CANTER sight info some years ago, but will revisit that. And no, I’m not an expert in OTTBs. I realize there are special re-training techniques for a re-homed race horse. Maybe it was the way I asked the questions that made me appear as a noob horse person. LOL I started riding in 1970 and won’t bore you with the details of my riding & horse keeping experience.

    When the time comes (and hopefully it will be a long time from now), I’m NOT only looking at CANTER - its just one of many options. I was always taught that you’ll never know if you don’t ask questions. So anyone that is worried that I’ll just go buy an OTTB on a whim, and subsequently ruin it because I’m a completely unsuitable horse owner, misunderstood the post and need not worry. I’m totally OCD on being prepared/informed/knowledgeable on pretty much anything to do with horses and having a trainers’ perspective/input is equally important.

    I was honestly just interested in hearing stories of how others have gone through the process of purchasing a CANTER horse from the track and how it worked out - just as someone might ask questions about the logistics of buying a horse from overseas. Now I seem to have opened a can of worms…

    So, to be clear, I’m not buying a CANTER horse. today or tomorrow or anytime in the near future. This was purely an exercise in “what if”. Hope that clarifies things. :slight_smile:

    One thing that I think you’re missing about this is that when you buy from a trainer at the track, they don’t usually have time or patience for much. You’re expected to see the horse (maybe–a lot are purchased sight-unseen), vet it (maybe–a lot are purchased without a PPE) and haul it away.

    Trainers aren’t interested in answering 110 questions about the horse, or having you out multiple times to see it, or taking more than a small portion of their day to show it to you. I’ve never had vet records come with the horse, and I’ve had trainers lie about vet work like joint injections that I knew had been done.

    Buying off the track is about seeing horse, understanding what’s in front of you and making a decision. Often in about 15 minutes. From your laundry list of questions, that doesn’t sound like a good fit with how you want to buy a horse.

    But there are a LOT of OTTBs out there that have been let down, evaluated, and restarted. They’re often with people who are happy to spend a lot of time answering your questions, will provide a complete medical record, and can let you ride and/or longe the horse. That is probably a better place to look.

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    Well, to be perfectly honest, it’s been 18 years since I last bought a horse. A lot has changed in that time period in the horse world, evidently (well, from what I’ve read getting back on COTH anyway). I’ve been in my safe, cozy, farm bubble for nearly 17 years now. So no, going to a track to buy a horse is not the way I’ve bought horses previously - nor, perhaps is that maybe the ideal way for me personally to buy a horse. I was just trying to learn more about the process and appreciate the insight.

    Plenty of people have answered your questions, but I have to chuckle a little bit at everyone who is trying to tell the OP that she shouldn’t be buying a horse straight off the track just because she never has. You don’t have to be George Morris to retrain a race horse. Pick a good minded horse from a trainer with an honest reputation and I promise you’ll be fine.

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    If someone is looking to ride, longe and get a full medical history on the horse they’re purchasing, then picking up something on the backside really isn’t a great fit with their expectations/desires.

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    The only thing I can comment on is the “showing up on time” for your appointment to see a horse at the track. In theory that sounds great, but in practice: LOL. I have been stood up by trainers more times than not. The one who never showed to sign me in to the backside. Or the trainer whose horse I wanted to buy, I offered $ on the spot and he decided to let him run “one more time” that night. Maybe I’ve just had bad luck but I’m done with looking at horses on the track - find a track that does a partnership program with local farms and save yourself some aggravation, in my opinion & experience.

    The Canter horses are pretty to look at, but I just cannot deal with the track again. My 2 cents!

    The whole point of the original post is “CANTER-listed horses sound interesting. I’m not familiar with their process or what it is like to buy a horse from the track. From an educational perspective I’d love to know about your experience and how it may differ from a traditional buying experience”

    I have zero desire to purchase a horse from the track but from an intellectual perspective it is super interesting to learn about. Even if I don’t use the knowledge directly, part of being a horsewoman is the desire to learn. You never know when having baseline knowledge will be helpful. Even if it is knowing just enough it’s just to set off a red flag when you meet someone who brags about how they breezed their OTTB on the track when they met it but did’t have a jockey license.

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    But the point I’ve been trying to make (and am evidently failing at miserably) is that I wasn’t “expecting” those things. I just wanted to know if it was typical or not. I wasn’t expecting that any of them would be the “norm” - just more curious about other’s experiences. I think this is simply an issue of me not properly thinking through how I posed the questions. And I do see (now) how it might have come off in such a way that It seemed I had no idea what I was talking about.

    Maybe when I have insomnia at 2AM, I should just put down my laptop! :smiley:

    Just wanted to say “Thank You” @GraceLikeRain . You get it. I feel better now. Thank you! :slight_smile:

    And maybe I’ll have you proof read my next inquiry so I don’t get myself in hot water. LOL

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    Except… you won’t … and plenty of people have done that, and had a rude surprise when they took the horse home, rode it for a few months, and found out it couldn’t do the job they wanted because of injuries or limitations from its past job- - maybe a chip in an ankle that needs surgery that the trainer honestly had no idea about, maybe some sort of soft tissue injury that had been brewing but wasn’t obvious yet, or the horse “has a knee” but trainer didn’t x-ray… and then a buyer comes along, sees a horse that looks like it could be nice going for a good deal, and ends up with an expensive pasture puff that needs maintenance.

    Then that horse only goes two places: one of the lucky few that spend the rest of their lives as pasture puffs, or quietly shuttered off from hand to hand until it ends up at an auction. Happens much more than you think. I hated being close to one of the major auction yards in NY because I’d see TBs I knew from the track regularly turn up there.

    An in-shape, racing-fit, racing-trained TB is an entirely different animal than the one it is in a year, let down. In soundness, in temperament, and in condition… And even good racing trainers have a different vision of sound than sport-horse people. And a horse can be sound, racing, and still have a track injury that limits future performance. It happens all the time because the entire history of the horse is not always known, they pass from trainer to trainer, track to track, and sometimes details like an old suspensory or flipping at the gate are lost… but the buyer finds out the hard way when they find the suspensory is suddenly reaggravated, or the horse has major arthritis in the poll/atlas from the gate injury…

    It takes experience to develop that eye - to tell what a horse will be like once he is off the track. And it also takes experience to develop the eye that can tell a “tracky” horse from a legitimately sore one - some lamenesses are obvious but others are lingering, and there are a specific subset of “red flags” I simply would not do that many people could overlook or think are minor complaints.

    To the average horse person with a good eye for lameness, a tracky horse can look the same as one with a legitimate injury. I see experienced horse-people buy horses that to me are clearly neurological. I see them buy horses that have wildly sore stifles, thinking that they were “just tracky”. There are lots of minutia in looking over an OTTB that could easily be overlooked without experience, but would be red flags to me.

    Then there are the horses that are diamonds in the rough, which takes time to develop that eye too. Horse people honest to god have no idea the kind of transformation any young horse can go through and OTTBs are no different…I constantly hear from people who are trainers in the HJ or eventing discipline that are “amazed by the transformation” that I think is fairly commonplace/standard for the breed from 2-5.

    I think everyone is saying that the person should have someone experienced with them. Not necessarily that they shouldn’t buy an OTTB at all. You have to start somewhere, but it’s important to stack the decks in your favor and go with someone knowledgeable who can steer you towards the right horse.

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    I’d take a look at places like ReRun or New Vocations. I’ve gotten two OTTBs through Rerun, sight unseen, based on pics and jog videos and have been very happy (both Giants Causeway sons).

    You’re not in hot water. :confused:

    Every post here seems to be answering your questions.

    Buying a horse at the track is unlike buying a horse anywhere else. Perhaps more akin to purchasing at an auction vs a traditional horse purchase. You asked what it’s like–we’re all telling you what it’s like.

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    But hold on, what you’re describing is a risk with any unproven horse, not just horses off the track. ANY horse could have unknown previous injuries, end up unsuitable for their chosen discipline, etc etc.

    My point was that people are telling her she shouldn’t buy a horse off the track simply because she is inexperienced (with this specific process) and trying to educate herself about the process beforehand. She never said she wouldn’t be working with a trainer or that she sucks as a rider or has never so much as brushed a horse. I just think that people get a little too high and mighty about how difficult it is to retrain a race horse and how no one could possibly ever do unless they have tons and tons of experience. At the end of the day, they’re still just horses.

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