Buying a horse... What do you like and dislike?

Well, I just received a video from some brokers in Canada. They personally inspect each horse to make sure that they would be willing to represent it. They also take a full video.

Their deal is that you can select 3 horses out of their sales list, pay $15 and they “custom” make a video for you.

Well, I paid my $15 for 3 horses in my price range that had decent jumping pics on their website.

I get the video and the horses are NOTHING close to what I am looking for. I want to send the video back and get a refund! What a waste of money!

Here are some of my observations:

Clients:

Need to accurately describe their level of riding.
Don’t tell me you are an intermediate rider then we find out you have had three months of lessons. It is impossible to find a good match when you don’t know the real level of experience. This is where clients get overmounted then end up dumping the horse six months or a year later when they can’t ride it.

Be realistic about what you are spending on the purchase. If they only have $15k then say so. Make it clear if that INCLUDES the commissions or they are seperate.

If your trainer has to have input the tell the broker. Don’t waste time shopping on your own then say “oh by the way we need to come back with the trainer”. Bring them the first time.

Brokers:

Good quality video. It should show footage at home schooling in a relaxed atmosphere and show footage if it has any sort of record. Even if it is a schooling show. If it is a pony sale get footage of a kid tacking it up. Showing it has good ground manners is important to parents. Be honest about the horse’s ability. Don’t say things like has been successfully shown when what it really means is no one was killed at the one schooling show they took him to. If it is a 2’6 great first teacher then say so. Don’t sell a 20 year old broken down needs to be retired TB saying it is a 3’6" childrens jumper on the A circuit.

Have a vet stick it and give you something in writing certifing the actual height. (learned this one the hard way when it was advertised at 15.2 and growing and sticked when I got her home after purchase and she was 15.0! grown to 15.2 now but jeez)

This leads to vetting: I will never again vet a horse and not get it sticked to back up the claims of the height. I used the local vet where I bought her but made sure that I was there for the vetting and put a condition of her passing a vet inspection with mine at home as the condition of sale. Yes, it was two vettings but at least I knew she was sound and servicable before we moved her quite a distance. So using a vet of the broker isn’t necessarily a bad thing but cover yourself.

If you are brokering a horse and it fails a vet check with good reason then seriously consider dropping it from your list if the sellers won’t abide by honestly saying what was found on a previous vetting. Not all horses are good sales/purchases and to maintain an honest and fair reputation you have to be willing to walk away from the REAL lemons.

Commissions: I too hate this whole “I told so and so I saw your horse and now I get 10% too” game. Have the seller and purchaser sign a contract acknowledging what the selling price is, who pays the broker, and they each pay their own professional. Nothing sends a deal sour faster than 14 commissions doubling the price of a horse.

I am sure there is more but these are just some of the things I have encountered and I am not a broker but did buy my horse through one. By the way, her policy is that the seller pays her commission. Good luck with your venture.

I was once asked to place a “non-refundable” deposit on a horse! Prior to the vet check mind you! I told the dealer, uhhh no I don’t think so, I was told that other people really wanted the horse. I told her great, they should really enjoy him, he’s a nice horse. She just stood there with her mouth open. I got the horse after a clear vet check, uhh no deposit, non-refundable or otherwise.

My point being, I have had more than one experience with sellers telling me that soooo many people want this horse, buy it now or loose it. Don’t like pressure, I’ll make my decision when I’m ready. There’s a whole lot of nice horses out there, I’ll find another one.

Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my!!

Since there is little standardization in pricing, if the price is not clearly stated upfront, I usually pass. There are too many to look at to pursue the ones where the seller is likely just sizing up what they can get you to pay.

The point is not that the horse may or may not suit me, but whether I want to invest the time and energy to go to look at them, ride them etc. There is no point in taking even the slight risk of riding a horse that I couldn’t buy even if I loved it.

And I won’t put someone to the trouble of sending me a video if the horse is thousands more than I can afford. While it is understood that the price may or may not be negotiable, I think it is only good business to say “I am asking $X for this horse” so that everyone’s time is respected.


To appreciate heaven well
'Tis good for a man to have some fifteen minutes of hell.
Will Carleton (1845-1912)

Got a tape recently, and the horse was lame! this was for a prospect that was not yet started under saddle… why bother taping! seller should at least wait until the horse is sound! what a waste of time… to not mention a real turnoff for a buyer that might have liked the horse if it was sound!

Just a suggestion. Spell check and grammar check. If I were spending a lot of money through a person on the internet, I would have trouble trusting their knowledge if they used incorrect words and had spelling errors. It’s just one of those impression things. I think good impressions are very important in sales.

edit

Sorry I didn’t read all the responses to this post so please excuse any repeatative suggestions or comments

I’ve never had to go through a middleman for any of my horses (that included my sister’s horses as well) but have worked with a few in selling our mare and have worked with friends who agencies helping them.

Anyways we had two brokers interested in our mare, of course who ever got her sold would get the commision but they both worked in different ways. Alittle background: mare was OTTB, a little hot at times but a wonderful mare all in all, had A circuit hunter experience.

Broker #1- mare was at her barn for a month where she was shown to clients drugged (without our knowledge) and was only shown to maybe 2 clients. We took her away after finding out about the whole drug thing and when she stopped being ridden. They said she was unridable and would never be sold

Broker #2-came out tried the mare out before telling any client. After she was completly satisfied with her, that’s when she started bringing people out. They were provided with pictures and a video of the horse doing her stuff (taped from warm up to cool down with no editing). She provided client with the price AFTER her commision (10%) and had maybe 5 people who was interested and the 2nd people to come out bought her. The clients were never shocked by the mare because they were provided with every bit of info on her before hand and the full video.

It really helped that the broker came out and actually checked the mare out and rode her because she then knew what the mare could do and who she’d be suitable for. I was also under the assumption that she would watch the clients ride as well so she had an idea of what the client needed. This was very helpful!

Thanks guys this is the stuff I want to hear!! Why cause I know that buying horses is one of the most time consuming things someone can do. Trust me I have been working with someone for over a year and we have yet to find a horse for her cause most of what she sees is so misinterpreted. The one thing about our site is we don’t just have pictures posted with most of our horses but also video clippings and those clips are no older than 6 months.
That is one reason I am so determined to develop a good vet connection and in my hopes to promote more quality in the word honesty. We want to offer a nice selection of vets so that our customers can have access to them and can use them for their needs. Each prospective vet is screened by our vet over in the Netherlands. Their references are screened and if they make the cut then they are brought on.
I was surprised when I got to know more in-depth about the company on how honest the farms were over there with our company and many of the horses if you ask our vet have current viewing X-rays.

So now my objective is to promote that type of honesty over here. Now remember I might act as a broker but I make no commission off of a buyer or seller the money is paid out to me when farm joins our site to have their horses listed each year. So in fact Natty Dread with this company if you go and are curious to know more about some of the horses, your put with that bottom info. screen, put in direct contact with the farm. You can go and look at any horses they have to offer and the best thing is we�re just there to help if you need it.

Chef I know what you mean with getting videos that is why we don’t charge cause you never know the satisfaction. With us we do it differently. When you get a package from us you get a disk and then pop it into your computer and the software unless you don’t have it will be included. So you basically click on a file and there is your clippings and we can then put as many horses as you want on it. Also with each disk you will (If I�m making it) a full color collage of pictures of each horse you request along with a stat sheet and as much info. I can cram into it. But at the moment as we are in this transition I can not make up the disks for the Europe horses like this cause my collection has yet to be sent to me. We do offer tape video.
What deterred me from looking at a horse was having to pay to get the tape and then seeing it and feeling like I got taken to the cleaners.

Chef if you�re looking to find some good horses threw the cracks email me. I have a friend in PA well actually one of my old brokers who never found me a horse I didn’t like. If your interested although it has been time since I last talked with her give me an email and Ill give you the last info. I have of her to contact her. Most horses she sent me were right in my price range and unbelievable. I will be more than willing to help you find something. Don’t be shy it is an offer you can’t resist… hint hint
OK guys keep it rolling I want to hear more!

[This message was edited by CTT on Oct. 02, 2001 at 03:54 PM.]

You are obviously new to these fora. CTT is a long time member, and battles quite severe dyslexia. Most participants here have been supportive in “reading betwen the letters” when her posts are not completely correct.

I was personally very impressed by how much easier this post was to read than many of her earlier ones.

To pick nits with your own post, “spell check” is not correct usage. “Check your spelling” or “use a spellING checker” would be correct.

A “spell checker” is something used to check the syntax of a (magical) spell, to be sure it achieves its intended result (e.g., to make sure that a spell intended to wipe selected data off the IRS’s disk drive does not, instead, turn the reciter into a floppy disk).

Sorry, just a personal frustration.

Can you explain the comment you made about horses off the track?

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> But sure, yeah, you can buy them real cheap off the track. But there is a reason for that! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am not trying to be rude, but frankly I have bought many off the track and have had nothing but good results so far. Sure, there are some that have been used hard and who’ve been injured or handled poorly, but the great majority that I have seen have been in pretty good shape. It is certainly possible to buy 2 and 3 year olds that are just not fast enough to win even in claiming company, and who have the benefit of being well schooled on the ground, well cared for and who have learned a pretty good work ethic.

I would say the same for older horses - and would point to my current horse as an example. I bought him as a five (almost six) year old one month off the track. He is now 12 and has had only one lameness issue in all the time I’ve had him - he is flat soled and needed pads this year. He took about six months of training on the flat to lose the racehorse gallop, but has always been super on the ground and is definitely one that you need to kick rather than whoa on. He is also quite brave, will jump anything from anywhere, and after his early education on the track, there is not a piece of machinery, tent, flag or loudspeaker that fazes him.


To appreciate heaven well
'Tis good for a man to have some fifteen minutes of hell.
Will Carleton (1845-1912)

People who can’t MEASURE a horse properly (I drove 4 hours, in a truck, during a gas crisis to look at a 16.3hh 3 year old who was 15.3hh!) and people who present LAME horses for your viewing and riding pleasure. (Same horse!) (Says the seller, “Well, a hand is 3 inches;” and “well, the shooer trimmed him short on Thursday, but we thought he’d be okay by Sunday.” Riiiiiggght!) Grrrrrrrrr…

When I bought my present horse, I told the seller (who was a REALLY nice man, truly), that if I was going to drive from San Francisco to Ojai (near Santa Barbara) to look at a horse, it BETTER be over 16 hands, as advertised! He immediately had his wife run out to the barn with a measuring stick and double check! The horse WAS 16.1-1/4 and the seller is still alive!

The most important thing is to accurately and completely represent the horse, both in physical terms and in experience. The stories of “16.2 hand experienced amateur horse” who winds up being 15.3 in shoes with pads, that did one time have an amateur rider on its back for ten minutes before bucking them off, are so common and leave a bad taste in buyers’mouths

Personally, I don’t use brokers because I have found that they add cost, not value. Buying through a broker means you often pay a big markup (often more than double the asking price of the horse by the Seller) for the “privilege” of having them tell you the horse exists. When using a third party such as a broker, I insist on knowing the identity of the seller and I write two separate checks (one to seller, one to broker) to try to reduce the liklihood of being totally taken advantage of.

Let’s face it, no one is in business purely to help others (although it is nice if that is part of the motivation.) If you do a good job and provide value, you should not apologize for making a profit from the work. If I had a broker that charged a reasonable price - disclosed upfront - and offered a service I needed, I would be willing to pay for that service. That has not been the case so far, but as I generally buy my horses on my own or with my trainer for guidance, I haven’t gone the broker route much.

BTW, I would never use a vet offered by a broker to do a pre purchase. The broker is a seller’s agent and has a vested interest in getting the sale to go through. Most buyers will (and should) insist on an independent vet (ideally one that they have already worked with) in order to ensure an honest and unbiased opinion.


To appreciate heaven well
'Tis good for a man to have some fifteen minutes of hell.
Will Carleton (1845-1912)

I didn’t know about the dyslexia either and frankly, I was thinking the same thing - nice or not, presentation counts and perhaps CTT might want to have an associate or assistant do some editing for her, if her software isn’t up to that task.

The only other suggestion that I would make on the horse commerce website would be to add the asking prices for each horse along with the photo and DOB. I know personally that I would probably not take the time to inquire about several horses if I didn’t know they were at least in my ballpark, pricewise. Also, it gives the impression (IMO) that “the price will be determined only after we speak to you and assess what we think we can get you to pay!”

Yes, I’m a cynic, but I’ve bought (and sold) a lot of horses in the last 37 years, and I know that is not exactly unheard of. Other than that, though, I’d say the website looks very nice.


To appreciate heaven well
'Tis good for a man to have some fifteen minutes of hell.
Will Carleton (1845-1912)

CREEEEEEEEEEEEK! POP! Here I am with my rusty ole can opener.

As I am sure you have all seen ( well maybe not all) But I too have a stallion. Yeap, the stud fee is $1000, yeap we breed about 40 mares a year, yeap I have about 3-4 foals of my own a year, yeap they are not cheap to keep til they are “broke” and so “TO ME” they have a huge value because of all my time, my bills, my hard work.
But to noone else do they have a huge value. But then I don’t advertise them for sale. I wait 'til the finished product and in polo, my finished product, and let me tell you girls I am so picky, they will not leave me ‘til they can play 4-40 goals. I am that finicky. And not just with a pro. You can put your kids on them and they will score 4 goals. But then I ask alot because because I ALWAYS guarantee everything I sell. If it does not suit I will take it back. I took a mare back after a guy had it for 3 years. It suited he just didn’t want it anymore. And I still took it back. Am I a fool or what? But he bought another on the spot. And “eehgads” without a vet check.
But when someone openly advertises foals for sale you must be realistic that the vast majority have no true, intrinsic value until it is a made horse. Now I am no dope. There is a huge difference price wise from H/J and polo. I personally believe hunter prices are ridiculously nflated but I also believe in supply and demand and good on ya if you can get it. Believe me I would never turn down $100,000.00 if someone wrote me a check.
As far as track prospects. If they can’t run their price is also dependent upon meat prices. Because only a very few people ever can get on to the backstretch to talk to the trainers it is the dealers who buy cheap horses to run at cheap tracks who determine what their value is. They have already reached their peak in terms of value when they went to the weanling, yearling, or 2 yearold select/nonselect sales. If they don’t run or break down they no longer have a value except their day money and most trainers don’t have enough stalls to keep a horse just for that. So along comes Miss NattyDread, I eye something that is pleasing, we bullshit for awhile, I want to know how many times it ran, I look for any obvious injuries, I like the horse , we agree on price. I get pics of ankles, knees, hocks, I load and leave. All done in about 45 min. because if I don’t the dealer waitin’ over there will. Their value is nil til I remake them to do what I want.
The other thing I need to stress is this, If someone asks about one of my horsesand then asks a price, I NEVER price my horses until they have tried them. Because it wouldn’t matter a fiddle how much I wanted if they didn’t like the horse. The value of a horse is only what someone is willing to pay. 'Nuff Said. Off to my dog show!

Thanks everyone for the help I have been very happy with what I have read but keep the responses coming and let me know more. I want to know of as many good and bad experiences as I can get to better me at what I need to be prepared for.