Buying a horse with large under neck muscle

So I’m looking to buy a trail horse- saw a cute one online a few hours away. Seller has lots of pics and videos. Appears to be sound and safe to ride but has a massive under neck muscle, goes super inverted and not at all forward, avoids all contact. Seller is obviously not a skilled rider (to put it mildly) but has only had this horse for a little while. Supposedly it was a lesson horse before she got it. Only about 10.

What would you think on this situation? The horse is hurting somewhere or was just ridden like crap for years and learned to move this way Or what? Trying to decide if I should go look at it. Thanks!

Depends if you think you have the skill to change a horse that carries himself like that, and how much his overall conformation plays a role. Also if he also has back and loin problems which often accompany inversion.

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Very hard to say the root cause without seeing the horse. I got a really upside-down pony with no topline and a very overdeveloped underneck last year and improved the situation quite a lot… he’d been ridden badly and never taught to carry himself well. He wasn’t put together amazing but he was put together okay. It took nine months but he did learn to move normally and his topline/neck changed a ton.

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DH’s TWH had that same issue as the gaited rider who had him rode for that frame.
Her instructions to us to get him in gait were:
“Hold reins, apply leg” < Her demo was Hands High, clamped leg.
To get the Hunter frame we bought him for, we did the diametric opposite:
Loose contact (but still contact) & softly applied leg.
A couple years later, in the Dressage phase of a CT:

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It might be correctable but it might be conformation or soundness related and just the way he is. If it can be corrected it will take a long time. Also, if sellers of lower end horses claim its 10, add 5 years. So he’s been going like this at least a decade. Nobody really knows how old they are unless they have papers or bred it. Teeth on a mature horse on our modern hay and feeds tend to read younger then the actual age. IME, 3-5 years.

If you want to buy a safe trail horse, buy one that is now doing the job and does not need many months of untraining and retraining and maybe vet bills.

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Unless you like spending your time and money fixing problems that may not fixable, don’t bother.
Its one thing when you are a trainer receiving payment to fix a problem. But why SPEND money for the privilege of fixing someone else’s problem.

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Is the horse a cribber? I would check that out.

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Trail horses go along by pulling themselves along from the front. It is completely different to a horse that pushes from behind.

For an analogy jog along by shuffling, then change it to jogging and lifting your knees to your shoulders.

You will be asking the horse to go completely differently. He does not have the muscle, he does not have the stamina. It will be painful physically. You must never overface him mentally.

The fact that he was a lesson horse may be a plus, as he might already have some understanding.

A horse who goes along with a higher head and no contact does so because of bad hands. They are trying to stop the hurt. The horse being ridden with bad hands will either do that or will do the opposite and put their head down to lean. It stops the bit hurting the mouth as much.

As you are asking this question you are not a horse trainer who knows how to fix this problem,

However to become a horse trainer what you do is take a quiet older horse like this and take lessons and learn how to train this horse.

Rinse and repeat with older horses who need your help with different problems. That is how you get the skills to train horses. Thipen as your skills increase you can start with retraining younger horses. Then finally you can train your own young horse. How easy it is with all that experience behind you and the great instructor still helping you.

Good luck on your journey.

The first thing to find out with a horse like that is if it will still be sound with the increased work. Some are okay dwardling and not up to the physical change.

The most important thing to learn is that you need to listen to the horse. You will learn from each horse. Do so with a great instructor and you will go far.

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A trail horse that has a proper foundation on him and good conformation, ridden by a competent rider, doesn’t go around like that. Horses don’t inherently want to invert, that’s not comfortable at all. But they will, to avoid a heavy-seated rider, or hard hands, as a way to protect themselves, and then by default, will set up the cycle of pulling themselves along which develops the inverted muscling which makes it so much easier to pull themselves along which…

@MyShell if you like the horse, good brain, reasonably well-conformed (ie his front legs aren’t right under his withers, as a start), and the price is right, then if you’re willing and able to put in the time to re-educate him on how to move, which will pretty guaranteed require some good body work along the way, go for it.

A PPE in these horses can be hard to decipher, as their poor ridden years can make all sorts of things pop that may go away once his body is fixed.

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At best it sounds like a lot of training issues. At worst, it is a soundness issue. The inverted combined with not wanting to go forward concerns me.

That said, I bought a horse with a big under-neck. He was ridden western in a tight tie-down. His owner just like to gallop and race! He was very forward! He was only 6 and was basically sensible considering his handling. It probably took six months to get him to start accepting the bit. Eventually we learned dressage together and his neck transformed. But you have to enjoy the process because un-learning and changing muscle patterns is not a quick process.

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I would skip this horse, OP. With a neck like that, regardless of how he got it - he can use it against you. Imagine if he ran off with you - how would you get him to stop? That and a lot of other scenarios would make me step away. He’s going to need a lot of work to get him to use himself correctly and get that muscling where it belongs - on top of his neck and thru his back. And like @MsM said that is not a quick process. IMHO, I bet this horse was ridden badly for many years and with a tie-down of some sort.

Step away - there are other horses that are better risks/opportunities.

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Probably should have tried this guy.
Copied from your originaI Bowie thread:
I don’t know what exactly you want, but Bowie has this sweet gelding who has also had my eye: https://www.bowietexaslivestock.com/product/7735-broke-gentle-for-anyone-paint-gelding/

But he is gone. And I am kicking myself for not having grabbed him.

You have no idea what he knows, but he surely hurts somewhere and would benefit from massage, getting his teeth done, and some carrot stretches. When he feels better, he may by golly be a a nice horse. Or a jerk :wink:

He’s been ridden very poorly for a long time, his body tells you this. How much rehab are you up for ?

Maybe he is just built that way and its not fixable? Cant know without seeing the horse OP is referring to or at least a picture if not a video.

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Agree. That would be helpful.

So many things that could be wrong here. Whether it be from pain, built that way or from crap riding - all in all not a good risk.

I bought a 4 yr old - unstarted, that had a huge under neck muscle.
He’d got it from being on his own, locked in a stable in a barn 24/7 for 18 months where the only way of seeing other horses was craning his head up to stare out of a high window.
He’s lived out eating from the floor for 10 years with me, classically trained and ridden sympathetically, I’m a body worker / trimmer / rehab bod.
Even with all the input it has never fully gone and it has caused him issues, but to be honest he’s actually never got over the abuse he suffered there. If anything causes him to worry up he braces and he’s off.

Thanks everyone. I decided to pass on him. If he were closer I would go take a look but it doesn’t sound too promising to spend the better part of a day on. Upon further questioning and also a few more videos, he reallydoes not want to go while in the arena although is supposedly awesome in the trail so just sounds like too much potential trouble.

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