Buying a young horse...talk me into it, or out of it!

[k_lee85]

Forgive me if this has been discussed ad nauseum, I haven’t historically read this forum. I am considering buying a young horse, as I don’t see myself ever spending the money to buy the quality I want already made up, and I want the rewarding experience of developing one on my own. I have been involved with horses my entire life and have ridden many youngsters, but I’m admittedly a little inexperienced with bringing up babies.

I would be looking for a jumper prospect and I already have a few good trainers in mind to help me when the time comes. My parents have a farm, so I would have the luxury of being able to keep it at cost while it grows up. There are currently two super calm mares and an older gelding on the farm, so I think they would be good company for a baby to develop with. Note: I realize that everything with horses is unpredictable and there’s no guarantee that any horse will turn out how you want it to. I’ve been there! And I’m not looking to turn a profit, this is purely for my own joy.

What advice do breeders have for someone new to buying a youngster? Where should I look? Am I completely crazy? Any advice is appreciated, I won’t be offended! TIA!

[lauriep]

The most important things you can do is 1) study pedigrees of successful, trainable horses/lines, so you have a general idea of what direction you want to go and 2) find someone who specializes in evaluating young stock, not a talent that most show trainers have. Not easy to find, but a must, IMO.

[k_lee85]

Thanks Laurie! That is exactly why the process seems so daunting. Most of the trainers I have ridden with/shown with/known are not people I would pay to help me find a baby. They don’t seem particularly interested in it, understandably from their point of view I suppose. So trying to find a young horse is paddling into totally unknown waters, which does feel silly considering how many years I’ve been involved with horses. But hence my need for advice. Also- if anyone wants to give me names of trainers that can help find/start that would be great. Or people to stay away from. I’m in the southeast, PM me if you want.

[SCMSL]

I would advise you against buying anything younger than a 2 year old. At 2, you can already have an idea of what the horse will be.

Look at the prospects objectively. They are all cute, and they all seem like they could conquer the world, but you need to see what is right in front of you. Add that up with the pedigree, and see if it might work out or not.

Also, usually prospects are priced according to their age which means in December the 2 y/o will still have a nice price, which will increase as soon as they turn 3. So right now is actually the right time to start looking, as some of the older 2 y/o are actually starting to look more like horses and less like foals.

[classicsporthorses]

K_Lee sent you a PM offering my help. As for buying under the age of 2, there’s no hard and fast rule about this. As a breeder myself and like others having sold babies in-utero and soon after they hit the ground, none of my clients were ever dissatisifed as to what “came out”.

Look a the dam AND sire and what they have produced bred to others. Some stallions are one hit wonders, some dams produce less than desirable regardless of the stallion and visa-versa. the bottom line is do you homework. don’t get hung up solely on pedigrees look at the horses in 3-D, meaning in person, on GOOD video and so forth. Ask, ask ask questions. I know for me when I sell and I am VERY careful whom I even sell my babies to, I let the new owner know they can always speak with the owners of my other babies so they get a different opinion about what I put on the ground.

[lauriep]

If you have been in horses that long, trust your instincts. You probably know more than you think you do. Where are you located? We are in VA.

[lotc2005]

I bought a young prospect and let her grow up. She was a yearling when I purchased her, she is now 3. Best experience I have ever had. Hands down. I will say that I really did my homework, asked lots of questions, researched tons of bloodlines, etc. The breeder I worked with was amazing and I just adore my 3 year old.

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=370519

This is a thread I started a few days ago about the young horse I purchased.

Best of luck with your decision/search. I am happy to answer any questions you might have about my experience.

[Linda]

I have bred my own twice and purchsed a 6 month old once. Its a fun experience to work with your young horse and see it develop. And its also a lot of work. And it doesnt always go the way you think it will.,…but that happens with horses that have training on them too…

Before you decide to go this route, meet the stallion and some of the offspring. One of the horses I bred, was by a fantastic popular jumper in the 80s. Man could he jump. And boy did he have an attitude. I knew he had a bit of an attitude when I bred my mare to him, but I figured I could work through it. About 6 yrs later, after some really tough rides, I was at Thermal and decided it was too hard. He was going down to the jump and then just spinning out. I came off several times. That was a hard lesson. I sold him.

After that, I spent about 15 yrs doing jumpers on horses that knew their jobs and it was fun. As I approached early retirement, I decided to take another look at youngsters.
Bougt a 6 month old. Met the stallion who was athletic and very laid back. Met some of the other foals who were showing and they had good minds. So took the plunge.

My guy is 8 now. He i is going well and is fun to ride. Had some health issues but we’ve mostly pulled through it. Havent shown him but mostly thats because Im retired and just enjoying riding. I do have a professional help me with him. All horses can use a “tune up” and mine gets fresh with lots of horses in the ring. So we’re working through it. Its been a lot of fun to work with him and get him to the point he is at now. Some days I wondered why I was doing this. Buy overall its been a good journey.

[stoicfish]

I would go to the breeders who’s programs I really respect. Find a mare that has produced well and that you like and if you like who she is bred to, buy the foal in-Utero or as soon as possible. I believe that young jumpers are hard to judge before they are under saddle and jumping. Free jumping is one indication BUT as soon as the talent is recognized, the price goes up. Buying a young horse is a gamble so you may as well roll the dice and go for it. If you speak up first at least you have the possibility of ending up with a really good one without the price that usually comes with a more recognized talent. I can think of a couple local mares that I would love foals from and whose past offspring have been really talented. I hate to agree with the Holsteiner group but they are right about using the mare as the main factor in the equation. Many stallions have talent but it is who they are bred to that will determine the quality of the foal.

[RanchoAdobe]

Like many before have said - look at the dam line, and not just the dam herself, but her siblings, offspring, grand-dam. Look for performance in the lines. Also, be willing to spend just that much more on the “right” one. Good breeders with good mares and quality produce know what they have and price accordingly.

[Ssporthorses]

I was in a similar position… couldnt justify the money for a finished horse with the skill/talent to do the bigger stuff. I found mine advertised in utero for sale. Really loved the mares lines, but also spoke to the mare owner and we chatted at length about her personality and talent. I had heard and seen great things from the stallion and did a lot of research into what he already had on the ground.
My guy is now 2 1/2 and I’m looking forward to starting him lightly this spring

Sounds like you have a good base of knowledge and I can say it was a lot of fun raising him and working with him along the way… I had lots of experience starting babies but He was my first one from the ground up. I actually started some small time breeding because I had enjoyed the process so much of learning and researching bloodlines and seeing the results/comparing successful horses.

As long as you’re mentally and financially prepared for possible negative outcomes I would recommend buying A foal. It’s a long process to get from day 1 to starting under saddle.

[RyuEquestrian]

You have some great advice here from fellow breeders. I wanted to share with our experience with purchasing youngsters.

In 2005 we began our breeding farm and sought out, with the advice of breeders whom we respected, in-utero filly options and weanling fillies to be both performance horses for myself as well as the foundation broodmare herd.

With plenty of research on bloodlines, full and half siblings, dams/damlines and the advice of well established breeders whose programs we admired, we put together a good group of youngsters, who for the most part have (for the most part) developed as we had expected.

Here are a few of the mares that we purchased as either weanlings or as in-utero filly options.

Ahsia
Ana Bella
Ahme

Feel free to PM me and I would be happy to discuss in more depth how we went about purchasing our group of youngsters.

Purchasing and developing a youngster can certainly be a rewarding experience and certainly better ensure that you get the quality that you seek without sacrificing budget.

[RyTimMick]

I suggest seeking the advice of someone who knows babies and is the in the Jumper market. Trainers, traditionally don’t know anything about babies. They like to sell training, and you can’t train a yearling to ride. So go to websites of breed organizations known for making jumpers and find your local breeders. Start there. See mommas and babies and start to get a feel for what the babies are growing into to. If you are looking for jumpers, don’t go to a breeder that doesn’t breed for that market. I know some big players in the market who only purchase 5-7 year olds. They have never purchased a baby. They won’t be able to help you much. Lastly, expect to spend some money. Just because they are young, doesn’t mean they are cheap. Expect to pay 10k and up for good ones.

Tim

[HSS]

First of all, if you are looking for the future, you need to think seriously about buying a horse bred for purpose. So, in the H/J world, this is a t-bred or WB, or possibly a 1/4/T-bred line.

Once you decide what general breeding you’re looking for, I would contact the breed association, and discuss what you are looking for, and get the local breeders in your area contact information.

Then I would spend LOTS of TIME going to their farms, talking to them, and checking out their stock. If something really catches your eye, even early on, and you are comfortable with the people you are dealing with, great! You can still continue to learn, and be comfortable with the knowledge that there is more than one horse that will be perfect for you. Do not feel pressured, but don’t get paralyzed either.

The more knowledgeable you are the more confident you will be in your buying decision.

Another piece of advice is this is a warmblood breed, if you really like a horse which is also a very good mover, if it doesn’t work for your purpose, it could be a very good dressage prospect or 3-day also. Nothing is cut in stone with horses. Most warmbloods are good at more than one discipline. Horses with great canters and walks for jumping, and that “sit” also can trot enough for dressage.

I personallly like to buy my horses as young as possible. Over the years horses which I have purchased older and under saddle have tended to have large “holes” in thier ground manners and experiences which has made the first couple of years under saddle more difficult than it ought to be. When you have your baby, you can spend the time with it, and build a great relationship with it from the get go, and the starting is a “non-event”. It’s really much better and incredible fun!

You also would not believe how many people breed and then “forget” to pick up feet, have the farrier visit, worm, vaccinate, and heck- even FEED their babies!! A horse you raise has excellent care- this means a LOT for future soundness.

When you start your own youngster, you are under no time pressure to put something together. If it takes him 3 months to figure out how to pick up the left lead canter, so what? You wait and giggle about it. A trainer has to produce the “picture” in 30 days- this is an awful lot of pressure that a baby really doesn’t need, and many horses do not do well mentally with this.

So, as a small breeder and very experienced young horse trainer, I highly encourage you to take the plunge. I think you will find the experience greatly rewarding.

[MaggieF]

This answer by HSS is exactly what I would have written only probably the HSS answer is better! SO well thought out and written!

Definitely go for it. As a breeder I love to sell to people like you because I know whatever I sell you is going to get great care and probably never be sold. I work so hard to do the very best for all my young ones but never know what will happen once they leave. I so enjoy the young ones…I’m sure you will too!

Maggie

[resody]

You are getting plenty of good advice. Just be sure you do your homework, get the help from a good breeder (There are plenty of them out there that will be glad to help even if you don’t buy from them) and go into it with your eyes wide open. It is very possible you could end up with the horse of your dreams, we did.
We bought in-utero 2009 Mezcalero X Uwita (Coconut Grove X Cassini I) it ended up being a colt. He (Montaro OHF) was Gold premium at his foal inspection, 8.2 for gaits and 8.4 on conformation. It has been great watching him grow up. He was so easy to back and he is a very hard working young stallion. He was approved RPSI Stud Book I with a 10 for his free jump in Aug. WE plan to send him to the 70day test and present him to other registries next year then take him through the Young Jumpers.
I hope it works out for you. GOOD LUCK

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqDmKkVPeto&feature=plcp

[HyperionStudLLC]

[QUOTE=RanchoAdobe;6619431]
Like many before have said - look at the dam line, and not just the dam herself, but her siblings, offspring, grand-dam. Look for performance in the lines. Also, be willing to spend just that much more on the “right” one. Good breeders with good mares and quality produce know what they have and price accordingly.[/QUOTE]

This statement is very true.

Most notably is the pricing aspect. Great mares, matched with great stallions should, in theory, produce great offspring. Yet, just because it’s great doesn’t mean it should cost huge amounts more.

We produce great offspring with potential that is unlimited at a young age. If they don’t sell we train them and of course the price goes up, but not by much.

Buying a youngster in today’s market is a great option if you have the means to raise it and train it after you buy it. As a breeder, I cannot promise you what that youngster will ultimately be in sport, but I offer you strong fundamentals.

I’ve produced foals who have gone on to be for riders in jumping and eventing so far. I’ve also had some in hunter breeding classes. I try not to label a foal, but always give my impression based on pedigrees, temperament, gaits, willingness to be with out their “buddies”, herd pecking order, willingness or lack there of to human interaction etc etc…

I do my best to be competitive with the market here and in Europe. Prices are based off of what the market will bear and what I can legitimately compete with.

So, in answering your original question. You can easily buy a dream here and anywhere. It’s what you do with that horse, and what that horse becomes through their growth and training is how you will measure it’s success.

[k_lee85]

Thank you all for the great advice and feedback! I’m definitely thinking this is a route I’m going to seriously consider now, though I clearly have a lot of homework to do!

I like a horse with blood, and prefer the more sensitive, cat-like type. Size isn’t a huge issue (anything >15.2) and I’ve seen specimens I like from a variety of breeds so I don’t really have a specific breed I’m set on. I don’t mind a complicated ride as long as it isn’t completely crazy and wants to go forward to the jumps. I know that doesn’t narrow down too much, but any lines come to mind that I should definitely consider as I start to research?

Thanks again everyone!