Buying a young-ish jumper in Europe?

This describes it so well. I watch the sale video from Europe of my current horse and its a very tall European man in spurs making him look so put together in the bridle and kicking him forward to 1.0m oxers. I tried him 3 months after import, and after he had been restarted by a pro who rides more similarly to me, and both the steering and brakes were still pretty iffy.

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Watch any of the warmup videos here on this youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/@Eden0147

Or I find the way Harrie Smolders rides his stallions really instructive about what you can expect from a Euro sourced horse in terms of flatwork and way of riding by age (obviously keeping in mind that this is one of the best riders in the world):
A 16 y.o. finished product (6min and onwards): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX9vSLcMwA8
A 5 y.o. https://youtu.be/748KZz2ArjY?si=k15LqIz6hS06caZ4

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I think there are also some cultural differences in the idea of and tolerances for what is “well behaved” under saddle. No judgment on either side. Just my observation has been that it’s…different.

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On top of the very good replies already, I think we tend to underestimate how much any move for a horse can be really distressing for them and take some time to adapt and adjust and learn what is safe and trustworthy.

If a child is suddenly moved to a new home without their consent and active participation we get that this is wrenching. The horse loses all the people they know and all their buddies and the facilities are different and the routine is different and some horses are very chill about this and some horses kinda lose their minds. This happens with domestic sales too of course: the classic, “he was great when I tried him what have I done” 3-6 months new horse syndrome.

The horse doesn’t know what you paid and doesn’t really know that they are safe with you.

In a domestic sale the facilities and practices do tend to be more similar, especially if it’s a show barn to show barn transition.

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In Ireland Americanizing a horse would be using much less leg than we would normally and less contact, get up out of saddle as well, training a horse to go down a distance without much interference. Not every horse here suits the USA market but when they do we can ask a good price and get it.

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And from my experience lots of USA clients work through an agent and bring a trainer, both of whom will take commissions adding at least 20% to the price or creating the price themselves on top of what we’ve asked for the horse. Not all clients realise that their trainer is quietly putting themselves in the deal.

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If I could find a trustworthy agent who could point me the right way I would happily budget in that percent!

lol now you’ve said it!

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I worry you might be over-valuing scope over everything else. I sometimes wonder if the term no scope no hope has gotten a little out of hand. Scope just is not the panacea everyone thinks it is.

From your description, rideable is what’s really important. If a horse is scopey, that means it’s athletic. Super athletic horses don’t always make for great amateur mounts. If you have both and you want the horse sound that can get expensive fast.

I vetted a 7 year old mare in Europe last month who was scopey enough to do the 1.40s with a pro. I would say it was too soon to be sure she could do the 1.40s with an amateur. For sure, put her in a jump shoot, she’s going to fly over the standards, but I don’t think that’s a real test of this horse can get around a big course with someone newer to jumping this big. I hear you when you’ve said you’ve jumped big before, but from your description, it sounds like you’re not confirmed at that level? Maybe that’s unfair, but that’s my sense and I mean no disrespect at all. I run my mouth a lot for being queen of the 1.25m :roll_eyes:

Anywho, this mare was quite rideable and priced at 150k. The sellers know her rideability is what makes her valuable both in Europe and the states. The video of her visibly inexperienced mom riding around the 1m and not flicking an ear at mistakes maybe adds 25% to her value.

Despite all these good things, I was a bit relieved she didn’t pass the vet. I was nervous importing after having been burned so many times buying for potential rather than practiced. And this wouldn’t be my only horse, so a dud wouldn’t have killed me. The trip over is also much more taxing than people realize, particularly for a mare.

I just worry that all the things you’re worried about with American sellers is doubly true in Europe. There is some value to buying a horse from a trainer who has to see you at all the same shows. You can absolutely still get screwed, but you’re much more out of sight out of mind buying from a European seller. I absolutely agree you can find absolute bargains in Europe. But it’s not a given.

One thing you could consider since you are pretty set on importing is working with a really established dealer like Neil Jones, who if the horse isn’t what you thought, will often work out a trade. Now that insurance does not come cheap, but he does know what an amateur horse is, and he is very well connected in Europe. I’m sure there are others people can recommend.

I still think your money is better spent locally given your parameters. But as someone who works in investing, people think they know how they feel about accepting risk until they lose a bunch of money. And by then it’s too late.

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I haven’t read through this whole thread (even though I have lots of thoughts having done this more than a few times), but I bought this exact horse several years ago and he changed my life. The 11-year-old+ market is exactly where every ammy shopping in Europe on a “budget” should be looking.

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This.

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All dealers are required to offer a solution if a horse doesn’t work out (with more money on top is the norm). Lots of scope in my experience is no use for an amateur rider as a horse that lands out well after a fence will leave that rider behind. Something clever, almost slightly rude that looks after itself is a better option.

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This is SUCH a good way to describe this horse hah! My trainer calls it “self preservation instinct” - which, I agree with in the scope vs. safety question. Not that horses with mega scope aren’t safe, per se, but so often those horses are catty, hot, and down right hard to ride for even a very good riding amateur for the 1.20/25. My perspective is the best horse for that ride is something that did a level above and maybe had rails or was not quite up to snuff, so if amateur makes mistake the horse HAS some scope to cover, but won’t do anything dangerous.

This is my ideal situation for my next 1m horse. Give me the 1.10/1.15 horse who is a bit blasè about the 1.15 so he can help me out over the meter with an eye roll. :joy:

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Yes they need to take care of themselves sometimes lol

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You don’t want one that will take you to stupid.

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