Buying from Bowie “kill pen”?

[SusanO]

Using my Guy Bynum lower end auction price index with the last sale on August 13, I see that lower end horse prices are down. Now I have never attended one of these auctions but I do look at them online and this one sells maybe a hundred plus horses per month. And all of them do not look to be lame or unrideable. Prices are not as low as a “killpen” but very few of these horses sold for over 10k. Maybe 5 or 6 out of several hundred. If it was gaited probably under 3k. Most are quarter horse types and only a few palominos, buckskins, or blue roan types sold for over a couple thousand dollars. If the horse was over ten years old probably less than two thousand. So at least in Alabama it is pretty easy to buy a western type horse with pretty basic training for under ten thousand dollars. Most of these horses had QH papers so the age was verifiable.

Now I would NEVER buy from this auction without actually looking at the horse in person despite most of the better sellers have photos and some have video. And because I am pretty anal about exposing my horses to infectious disease I would want to be able to quarantine the horse .

Prices were higher in February but seem to be trending down. We have been having drought conditions and hay prices are up so I guess people are getting antsy about feeding them over winter. I do not see this price decrease reflected in CL prices. But those CL horses are still for sale. And that is the end of my Alabama Lower End Price Report for the Month of August.

[floppyammy]

I’m curious, where do people go to look at the Bowie “kill pen” horses? Is it a Facebook group? Or a website?

[lenapesadie]

Is that the sale in Andalusia?

We aren’t having drought way down here on the coast but it’s been too wet to bale for some time.

[floppyammy]

@candyappy

I like him @Tha_Ridge and I am not looking!! Did you see this @MyShell ??

For what it’s worth, I really like this one. Has a kind face, moves even, clean legs and willing to w/t/c, back, turn and stop, picks up both leads in that tiny area in a rope halter. No fuss, no protest, not anxious. Just seems like a willing, kind guy. Hope he gets a soft landing.

7840- BROKE, Quiet Palomino Ranch Type Gelding - Bowie Livestock (bowietexaslivestock.com)

Someone snatch him up!

Looks like the one @Tha_Ridge posted must have already sold.

[SusanO]

No this sale is in North Alabama. I believe northeast Alabama, maybe Attalla? They are on Facebook and do show the sale results each month with pictures of the high sellers. Sometimes I watch the live feed of the auction but the way the riders yank those horses around gets on my last nerve.

It is very dry here. We have had a little rain but it is very spotty. Mine has barely damped down the dust.

[candyappy]

@floppyammy

For what it’s worth, I really like this one. Has a kind face, moves even, clean legs and willing to w/t/c, back, turn and stop, picks up both leads in that tiny area in a rope halter. No fuss, no protest, not anxious. Just seems like a willing, kind guy. Hope he gets a soft landing.

7840- BROKE, Quiet Palomino Ranch Type Gelding - Bowie Livestock (bowietexaslivestock.com)

Someone snatch him up!

Looks like the one @Tha_Ridge posted must have already sold.

Well there is another one I wouldn’t hesitate to put in my barn… Wish I was looking!!

[lenapesadie]

I believe there is a sale in Atalla.

I try not to look at any lower end sales bc I’m afraid I’ll impulse by the most pitiful creatures.

I’m no psychic but I predict “Sadie’s Home for Derelict Equines” in my future

I’ll try and blow some of my rain up your way. It’s ridiculous wet here

[OverandOnward]

@floppyammy

I’m curious, where do people go to look at the Bowie “kill pen” horses? Is it a Facebook group? Or a website?

Bowie horse sales

Bowie Livestock - Superior Service And Superior Quality

Bowie horse sales Facebook

Bowie Texas Livestock: Consignment Horses

Current catalog

Bowie Livestock August 2022

O’Dwyer appears to be a training outfit, maybe?

O’Dwyer Horses - Bowie Livestock Sale Barn

“Bowie” is the name of this small town northwest of DFW, not far from the Oklahoma border. If the name is pronounced by the locals true to the namesake, it sounds like “boo-ie”. (Not “bow”.) Town is very cattle, very country. About 5,500 people – whole county is reporting less than 20,000 people. There are a lot of very under-populated counties in that part of Texas west & north of DFW … and believe me there are good reasons all the young people leave for the city.

As far as I know, Bowie Livestock does not claim to ship horses to slaughter in Mexico, and what I’ve heard is they do not (can’t claim that as firmly factual or official though). They are buy-and-sell horse dealers. That is as big or bigger than their regular auctions. They transact with the many other dealers that cover Texas & Louisiana . They may have kill-buyers appear at any auction. As dealers go, they probably aren’t the worst by any means. Comparatively speaking with the considerable range of TX/LA auctions.

(Especially east of I-35, Texas & Louisiana horse country is kind of like one state, not two. Bowie is a little far from LA but I-20 is an easy trip there.)

Every county and many rural cattle towns in Texas have an auction barn. Some are larger and more active than others. They all may have kill buyers in attendance at any auction. They also have horse dealers who buy at one sale and sell at another, and who do try to sell better horses to private buyers. All this is very much a standard part of rural TX & Louisiana, which both tend to sparse populations outside of the cities. Especially in the small towns, these smaller rural ranchers, auction houses and horse dealers tend to be like stepping back into the 1950’s.

Bowie appears to have latched onto the website national-reach sale-pen selling channel. Smart of them, given their business.

There are several TX/LA sale pens that have tapped into this national-website sales business. Most have actually changed their self-assigned designation to “kill pen” even though most of them don’t ship to slaughter (which needs a contract with a Mexican slaughter house).

With the caveat that kill buyers can be at any auction and that sometimes a buyer is sub-contracted to help a shipper fill a load. Meaning that just because they don’t have a ship contract themselves doesn’t mean a horse might not end up on a truck to slaughter anyway.

But most of the sale pens concentrate on sales, even if they are calling themselves “kill pens” (don’t think Bowie does call themselves that). If a horse doesn’t sell after a given time, the horse is “shipped” to another auction, another dealer, another sales pen.

[grayarabians]

I wanted to chime in.
I bought my current horse from Kaufman kill pen in Texas.
I adore him.
He was recently diagnosed with Cushings but he’s now 22 years old - it happens.
At my age and being disabled - what was I thinking when I bought a completely unknown horse?
He was traumatized by the whole auction/kill pen ordeal.
And two weeks out of QT and settled in the boarding barn - had to be evacuated for hurricane Harvey.
So for him - and for me - I decided to try clicker training with him.
(Alexandra Kurland).
OMGee - I discovered my horse was wicked smart.
He was “all in” with CT/+R training.
I don’t think I’ve ever had as much fun with a horse.
He continues to amaze me.
I wanted a safe trail horse and that’s what he’s become.
We did the virtual Tevis Cup two years ago.
I feel the safest on him than any horse I’ve owned.
Part if that is just him - part the positive reinforcement training.
I’ll write more about him another time.
I’ll try to post pics.
Anyway - in rescue circles - at least with Arabians there are “second chance” rescues. Horses bought from kill pens - trained and ready for adoption.
But the best is Love This Horse Equine Rescue in California.
They get horses before the kill buyers can.
Horses from law enforcement seizures.
Owner relinquished horses.
Mostly purebred Arabians.
Some half Arabians and occasionally other breeds.
LTH would be the first place I would look - but I pray I won’t need to any time soon.
LTH has a FB page that shows horses they’ve taken in and those ready to be adopted.
Currently they have of course some PB Arabians - but also a doll of a QH named Briggs. And a half Arab / half paint named Isaac.
All the horses are trained for trail riding.
I love watching their vids.
See how the horses progress in their training and what they go on to do.
I can’t praise Vera/ her crew enough for all they do.

[Tha_Ridge]

@OverandOnward

O’Dwyer appears to be a training outfit, maybe?

@OverandOnward

As far as I know, Bowie Livestock does not claim to ship horses to slaughter in Mexico, and what I’ve heard is they do not (can’t claim that as firmly factual or official though). They are buy-and-sell horse dealers.

@OverandOnward

But most of the sale pens concentrate on sales, even if they are calling themselves “kill pens” (don’t think Bowie does call themselves that). If a horse doesn’t sell after a given time, the horse is “shipped” to another auction, another dealer, another sales pen.

So not entirely true/accurate here…

The horses we’re referring to as Bowie’s “kill pen” horses are, in fact, the O’Dwyer horses. The horses that run through Bowie’s regular consignment auction are lovely, ranch types that sell for quite a bit more.

And Bowie does indeed claim to ship horses to slaughter, whether it’s true or not:

[MyShell]

Grayarabians, that rescue looks great! This is the first time that I’ve ever actually really looked at the “kill pens” fb pages and web sites and man, it’s depressing. I sure wish I was a millionaire and could buy a whole bunch of these sad horses and evaluate and potentially train them and adopt them out. Seems like the rescues mainly have unrideable horses due to age (too old or too young) or permanently lame. Anyhow, it’s definitely a sad reminder of what can happen to your horse once it’s sold and out of your care. I don’t know how these people who run these places can live with themselves. There are so many horses I would just love to give a peaceful euthanasia to and here they are putting them on a truck. Ugh

[Turntable]

@Tha_Ridge

The horses we’re referring to as Bowie’s “kill pen” horses are, in fact, the O’Dwyer horses.

The O’Dwyers own Bowie Livestock Auctions. They came from Ireland and started out shipping horses to slaughter and then bought the auction house and have been making it more and more upscale but they do have a feedlot operation too. They own the shipping trucks etc so when you pay for shipping on a “rescue” horse you are really just buying it from a dealer and also paying them to ship it to you. That does not mean it’s a bad horse but be aware that if it was worth more it would likely fetch it at their auction, you are probably buying no-sales that no-one who saw them in person wanted. Which again does not mean it’s not a nice horse, just not what the local buyers want but also nice enough they do not want to ship it.

Most riding horses that sell at the sales are consignments and they do not own them.

[Tha_Ridge]

Yeah, their shipping quote was asinine. I had mine picked up by a private hauler for half the price.

[shiloh]

I checked them out. Their prices are a bit high but they don’t seem to lack for buyers. And of course since I am a schmoo and a dumbass for a grey of course I like Sikander. And LillyAnne - even though she was adopted. And Bibi’s Girl - built like a brick house like i like them. Thank you for bringing them to my attention. I am going to donate to them.

[TimeForAHorse]

This is timely thread! I’ve had a couple unfortunate health issues in the barn this year, and I really, REALLY needed a scrappy little project to keep busy with. This guy got here last Wednesday from the O’Dwyer lot at Bowie:

I like the quote from a previous poster, “buy the problem you can see.” This guy had a skinned knee and is an unregistered, completely unhandled yearling. He arrived looking like he lost a fight with a lawn mower, so must’ve had the crap totally kicked out of him at the lot. I think in 3 months, he’ll be lovely He let me touch his nose today and will come investigate me if I sit quietly in his paddock.

[OverandOnward]

@grayarabians

Kaufman kill pen in Texas

Kaufman is known as one of the most high-volume true kill pens in the U.S. I’m not sure if the Kaufmans ship for themselves, but they definitely fill trucks on a schedule.

Kaufman sells many horses to the public as well. There is no way to know which side of the business is the highest volume for them. But once a horse is designated by them for slaughter the horse is rarely ever still offered for sale, because they need to fill the load by the deadline.

Like most true slaughter shippers, this business has come down from previous generations and they don’t see anything wrong with it. They say they are providing a service, basically disposing of unwanted horses, instead of having the horses end up neglected and starving in someone’s bare lot. Paraphrasing what they have told investigators and reporters from time to time.

@grayarabians

But the best is Love This Horse Equine Rescue in California.

Excellent well-reputed rescue. They have been doing this for a very long time.

LTH truly puts time and training into horses. Sometimes for years before the horse is considered ready for adoption. If a horse is so traumatized or for whatever reason will just never be a good candidate for adoption, LTH will provide or find sanctuary for its lifetime.

I don’t know if she still does it, but at least for a time Vera regularly checked a couple of low-end auctions in her area for horses that appear Arabian and will buy them. Suspect this is because Arabians tend to be pretty but not beginner horses and have an unfortunate tendency to end up at auction. And it’s hard to see them slide through the cracks like this.

[Tha_Ridge]

I love that quote! I definitely did the same as you. I hope you’ll share updates.

[Jenerationx]

I like Gump! He’s 12. Looks like a solid guy.

Bowie livestock gump

[barefoot_jess]

This feed has been very helpful. I just picked up a little buckskin yearling as a project for my daughters(and me) from Bowie. His slaughter date was today.

Was monitoring to see if he got picked up by anyone, and as of 3:30 this afternoon had not…so…

Will be organizing delivery to CA tomorrow when they open up. Anyone have experience with bowie’s provided transport? Given his age and lack of handling I am definitely hesitant about the process.

Thanks in advance.

[Tha_Ridge]

The rate they quoted me was very high. I think you’d do better finding a private hauler, almost certainly so from a horse welfare standpoint.