Buying/Importing a Jumper Prospect - Anyone Have Advice?

[MustangTwist]

@eclipse

Honestly, green jumpers that are showing 1.20 potential in the 4 years and up range in Alberta are at least $25,000…1.30 potential and higher add another $10,000 (and probably much much more!) plus these are still horses that are showing this potential thru a jump chute and still doing baby green hunters! You can definitely find some very nice ones in your price range that will get you to the 1.10m but to see the proven bloodlines and other offspring that are jumping the bigger fences, I think you’ll have to increase your budget!

Thanks for the heads up - I actually traveled to Alberta a few months ago and it was beautiful! So much gorgeous horse property. Are there other areas in Canada with better value, or are those prices pretty typical? Also, is that estimate in USD or CAD? I figure the if the exchange rate is good and the transportation costs are lower, Canada might be a good option.

If I’m flexible on good bloodlines and want something that will pass a PPE and has the potential to be competitive in the 1.20s, do you think $20-$25k would be enough? If so, any chance you can point me in the right direction of some good contacts/breeders/etc.?

[MustangTwist]

@Peggy

A couple of breeders in So Cal

Carol Parker - Cross Creek Farm (actually in AZ but horses show in California)
Rusty and Kandi Stewart - Grey Fox Farm (NOT Gray) - Santa Rosa Valley AKA Camarillo
Anneliese Kannow - Three WIshes Farm - also Santa Rosa Valley

Anneliese doesn’t seem to have anything at the moment, but it might be worth a call to see if she knows of other people.

There are others, but I just can’t think of them at the moment.

Thank you! This is helpful.

[MustangTwist]

@OutsidersOpinion

You won’t find what you want for $10k in Europe. It will cost every penny of $10k to get it to Cali from Europe, and thats if the first one passes the vet. $10k in Europe gets you the same exact horse it gets you in the US. Once you’re in the 40-80k range is when Europe has a better price range than the US.

Europeans aren’t stupid, they aren’t selling their 1.40 prospects even with attitude problems for $10k even as young as 3.

Start trudging through Facebook posts, you can find something for $20k in the US probably, but you will have to get very creative.

I don’t think Europeans are stupid, but I was under the impression (from friends, from my own research, and from other discussions on here) that the price of bringing up a young horse in Europe is less because of various factors (more infrastructure for breeding programs, lower showing costs, etc.), and thus the horses tend to sell for less.

This was my own experience when importing from Europe (granted it was over a decade ago), though I had a much larger budget last time around. I had shopped around in the U.S. and couldn’t find what I was looking for in my price range, but there were lots of horses of comparable quality in Europe priced quite a bit lower. Anyway, I’m hesitant to believe that a $10k horse in Europe is fully comparable to a $10k horse in the U.S., but I fully acknowledge that I’ve been out of the game a while and things might have shifted. I also understand that the value savings aren’t phenomenal when taking into account things like shipping and quarantine.

I’m alright with some attitude issues and eccentricities, so long as there are no major under saddle problems or soundness issues. I’ve ridden quirky horses (worked for an event barn briefly) and consider myself to be a fairly competent/brave rider.

At any rate, I do appreciate your input. What sort of resources would you recommend? I’m not sure what sort of facebook pages would be the most useful for finding what I’m looking for.

[MustangTwist]

@greysfordays

My vet (who is also events) pays extra close attention to the naviculars. Those have to be perfect and the feet have to be at minimum “good”. A lot of the horses that were recently imported come with almost no heel and that plus the hard ground here can cause problems very quickly.

I do think you are better off looking domestically and Canada, you can start with the FB pages for Canadian horses. I think your eventing background is going to be an asset for you to bring a young jumper along, you likely have great dressage work to help a young horse’s balance and you’re probably braver than a lot of us!

But again if it’s possible to wait even if it means you don’t ride for 6 months to a year and you can add $10k t your budget, it will really help ensure you can at least get to the 1.20s. Otherwise I worry you’ll have to make accommodations on scope or soundness and honestly in CA, you really want to stack the deck in your favor on soundness.

This is great advice that I will definitely keep in mind - thank you. It’s hard to hear that I might need to wait longer to buy, mostly because I’ve already taken quite a few years off and I’m really itching to get back into it, but I think you make a great point. I think I can push it back a few months to up my budget to $25k or so, but I’m not sure I’d be willing to wait too much longer. I’m also planning to buy a house next year and might try to keep my older horse going, so there are lots of variables! I’m willing to balance my expectations against my checkbook a bit and settle for getting a horse that jumps a little lower (1.20ish) if I can have it sooner (12-18 mos). I don’t have serious competition goals at the moment, I really just want something fun to jump around at a half-decent height.

Totally agree on stacking the deck in favor of soundness. I’d 100% settle for something less flashy with more modest bloodlines if it seemed like it would stay sounder in the long run. My “horse of a lifetime” who I’ve had for years was never the fanciest mover (he’s been called “pony gaits” on more than one occasion), but he jumped like a beast and made the transition from UL eventing to jumpers with ease. He’s still sound and in full work, and he’ll be 25 in January!

[MustangTwist]

@Reminisce

If you’d buy off a video and would look at a thoroughbred, Jessica Redman of Benchmark Sport Horses has a constant high-end selection of Thoroughbreds for sale. She is extremely honest and reliable. A lot of her horses get sold on to top eventers, etc. Worth an open mind

http://www.benchmarksporthorses.com/

Thank you! This is the type of thing I’m totally up for trying. I’ll give her website a look.

[MustangTwist]

@silver_charm

I ended up not buying anything so we can save up and I can have more wiggle room in either my purchase or training budgets.

There’s also Branscomb Farm in CA and Wild Turkey farm in Oregon. Second Three Wishes Farm as well.

Thanks for the tips! Do you happen to know the general price ranges for those breeders for what I’d be looking for? I’m not sure if they’re even remotely in my price range, and it doesn’t seem like they post their prices online unless I missed them.

Best of luck on your search! I hope you find something great once you’re ready.

[MustangTwist]

@findeight

10-15 in Europe is 20-25k minimum when you add shipping, commissions and vet work not included in the sale price landed at your barn. 3-5 year olds with your required " good sport horse lines" will start there without import costs. Breeders know what they have and what a fair price is, so do the agents at the sale yards. You have to be careful assuming what somebody said they paid is actually their complete bill including everything to get it vetted, bought, shipped, quarantined and delivered. Unless you see the bills, you cant really know.

Do have a suggestion , Argentina. They breed Zangersheids and other fine sport horses. It tends to run somewhat less then Europe even though the shipping distance and cost is similar. They are farther from the European hub of FEI competitions, fact their international teams are based in Europe. But they breed at home and know quite a few folks who have imported and been delighted with product and price. You won’t get a unicorn mind you but possible to find more selection in the lower price ranges then Europe.

I wouldn’t lease anything. Rather save every penny as even in Argentina or Canada, 30k delivered is going to get you more of what you want then 20k even if it’s nowhere near what a well bred, sound, backed 3-5 year old with indications of scope for 1.3-4m will cost you anywhere even without shipping.

I would love to look in South America. I’ve heard of people importing from Chile and Argentina, but I don’t even know how to get started looking there. I did some basic web searches and didn’t come up with much. If you don’t mind me asking, who did your friends go through to find their horses from South America?

Since starting this thread I’ve adjusted my expectations a bit - I think I can wait a little longer to buy so I have closer to $25k to spend, and would be happy with something with the potential to be solid at the 1.20 level. Flexible on good bloodlines (esp. if the horse has spent some time under saddle), but PPE & good conformation are a must.

[jumpoff87]

I know Hyperion Stud in Barboursville, VA has some really nice young ones for around $20k, and they have a great reputation http://www.hyperionstud.com/hyperion-horse-for-sale/

This breeder is on the west coast http://wildturkeyfarm.com/warmblood-horse-sales/

[eclipse]

@MustangTwist

Thanks for the heads up - I actually traveled to Alberta a few months ago and it was beautiful! So much gorgeous horse property. Are there other areas in Canada with better value, or are those prices pretty typical? Also, is that estimate in USD or CAD? I figure the if the exchange rate is good and the transportation costs are lower, Canada might be a good option.

If I’m flexible on good bloodlines and want something that will pass a PPE and has the potential to be competitive in the 1.20s, do you think $20-$25k would be enough? If so, any chance you can point me in the right direction of some good contacts/breeders/etc.?

Best bet for your dollar Is Klondike Victory Farm…they always have some fabulous youngsters BUT the ones that show big potential are still going to cost high dollars! The money you have will still not get you all of this including PPE, commissions to your trainer AND transportation of the horse (eg when people in Alberta send their horses with a commercial shipper for the winter to California, it’s in the $2000 each way!)
http://www.kvf.ca/

[Mac123]

I think your budget is tough. $25k is enough to feel like you have some money to play with, but in this market, it really doesn’t stretch very far. The other thing to factor in is the cost of failed purchases. IE. costs of flying to sit on something you don’t like or cost of a PPE on a horse you pass on.

If I were you, I would skip the whole import scenario. For $25k imported, you’re looking at really young horses, and you’re better off getting a $25k 4 year old stateside than a $15k 4 year old that ends up being $25k with import.

I’d either try to split up my goal by buying a horse or two and trying to flip them (which obviously does add more risk, but done smartly is a good option) to increase your budget or try to keep your head down, be patient, and hunt for a bargain. You CAN find great bargains out there. There ARE nice horses to be had for the great prices (I know of someone who just paid less than $10k for a nice young warmblood mare, sound, because the seller needed to unload for personal reasons). It just takes a lot more time and effort.

Also, if you aren’t particular on breed and it’s not intended to be a high dollar resale, you can find some really nice, athletic “off breed” horses, like TBs or Paint or draft crosses, that will be less expensive than their sport-bred counterparts. If you don’t need size, look for something under 16h. Or find something without an A show ring record. Etc. If you can compromise on what are typically the high-demand characteristics, you can find more for your money.

If I were you and you have the skill to do so, I would focus on finding the soundest, best-tempermented, nicest (in that order) $20,000 horse that might have the scope for the 1.2m. You can put a year into that horse and sell it all day long as a pre-green horse or a child/adult jumper or a childrens hunter or an eq horse or whatever it wants to be if it doesn’t want to be a 1.2m jumper. Insure it to hedge your bets against something tragic. That way, if it doesn’t turn into a 1.2m horse, you can sell it and have a nice budget to work with for the next horse. If it does turn into a 1.2m horse, then you’re golden. (In this scenario, since future saleability matters, size and breed will matter more.)

[MustangTwist]

@jumpoff87

I know Hyperion Stud in Barboursville, VA has some really nice young ones for around $20k, and they have a great reputation http://www.hyperionstud.com/hyperion-horse-for-sale/

This breeder is on the west coast http://wildturkeyfarm.com/warmblood-horse-sales/

Thank you! Will look into them.

[MustangTwist]

@eclipse

Best bet for your dollar Is Klondike Victory Farm…they always have some fabulous youngsters BUT the ones that show big potential are still going to cost high dollars! The money you have will still not get you all of this including PPE, commissions to your trainer AND transportation of the horse (eg when people in Alberta send their horses with a commercial shipper for the winter to California, it’s in the $2000 each way!)
http://www.kvf.ca/

How about eventing prospects that show an aptitude for jumping? Also, when you use dollar amounts, are you referring to USD or CAD? Thanks!

[MustangTwist]

@Mac123

I think your budget is tough. $25k is enough to feel like you have some money to play with, but in this market, it really doesn’t stretch very far. The other thing to factor in is the cost of failed purchases. IE. costs of flying to sit on something you don’t like or cost of a PPE on a horse you pass on.

If I were you, I would skip the whole import scenario. For $25k imported, you’re looking at really young horses, and you’re better off getting a $25k 4 year old stateside than a $15k 4 year old that ends up being $25k with import.

I’d either try to split up my goal by buying a horse or two and trying to flip them (which obviously does add more risk, but done smartly is a good option) to increase your budget or try to keep your head down, be patient, and hunt for a bargain. You CAN find great bargains out there. There ARE nice horses to be had for the great prices (I know of someone who just paid less than $10k for a nice young warmblood mare, sound, because the seller needed to unload for personal reasons). It just takes a lot more time and effort.

Also, if you aren’t particular on breed and it’s not intended to be a high dollar resale, you can find some really nice, athletic “off breed” horses, like TBs or Paint or draft crosses, that will be less expensive than their sport-bred counterparts. If you don’t need size, look for something under 16h. Or find something without an A show ring record. Etc. If you can compromise on what are typically the high-demand characteristics, you can find more for your money.

If I were you and you have the skill to do so, I would focus on finding the soundest, best-tempermented, nicest (in that order) $20,000 horse that might have the scope for the 1.2m. You can put a year into that horse and sell it all day long as a pre-green horse or a child/adult jumper or a childrens hunter or an eq horse or whatever it wants to be if it doesn’t want to be a 1.2m jumper. Insure it to hedge your bets against something tragic. That way, if it doesn’t turn into a 1.2m horse, you can sell it and have a nice budget to work with for the next horse. If it does turn into a 1.2m horse, then you’re golden. (In this scenario, since future saleability matters, size and breed will matter more.)

Thanks - this is both super thoughtful and very helpful. I’m not particular on breed, and am willing to get the soundest, sanest, nicest horse I can afford, with the understanding that I may resell in order to give me a bigger budget for the next, esp. if it doesn’t seem up for the 1.20s+.

Do you have any suggestions or tips on where/how to find the best 4 year old, within my budget, domestically (or from our neighbor to the north)?

[eclipse]

@MustangTwist

How about eventing prospects that show an aptitude for jumping? Also, when you use dollar amounts, are you referring to USD or CAD? Thanks!

No idea about eventing as I’m in the hunter, jumper world! These are all CAD $…generally when you look at Canadian websites, unless it states US$ the prices are CAD, seeing as, well, it’s a Canadian website!

[MustangTwist]

@eclipse

No idea about eventing as I’m in the hunter, jumper world! These are all CAD $…generally when you look at Canadian websites, unless it states US$ the prices are CAD, seeing as, well, it’s a Canadian website!

Good to know! I know eventers are typically priced lower than jumpers, but there’s also less emphasis on bloodlines etc. in that world.

If I had ~$32k CAD to spend all-in, does that change your assessment?

[dani0303]

@MustangTwist

I would love to look in South America. I’ve heard of people importing from Chile and Argentina, but I don’t even know how to get started looking there. I did some basic web searches and didn’t come up with much. If you don’t mind me asking, who did your friends go through to find their horses from South America?

Since starting this thread I’ve adjusted my expectations a bit - I think I can wait a little longer to buy so I have closer to $25k to spend, and would be happy with something with the potential to be solid at the 1.20 level. Flexible on good bloodlines (esp. if the horse has spent some time under saddle), but PPE & good conformation are a must.

I don’t know anything in regards to import costs but here are a few good breeding farms in Argentina. I own a mare from La Tatabra and she’s a gem. I bought her years after she was imported though.

http://www.tatabra.com/en/index.php

​​​​​​http://www.harashj.com/

[MustangTwist]

@dani0303

I don’t know anything in regards to import costs but here are a few good breeding farms in Argentina. I own a mare from La Tatabra and she’s a gem. I bought her years after she was imported though.

http://www.tatabra.com/en/index.php

​​​​​​http://www.harashj.com/

Thank you!

[eclipse]

@MustangTwist

Good to know! I know eventers are typically priced lower than jumpers, but there’s also less emphasis on bloodlines etc. in that world.

If I had ~$32k CAD to spend all-in, does that change your assessment?

Nope…just look at the link I sent you, honestly you’ll be hard pressed to find anything “cheaper” priced! They currently have a very nice dude, showing 1m who I watched go at Spruce and they want $30,000 CAD. That’s the reality in Alberta, jumpers are priced higher than hunters and command top dollar and even our good hunters aren’t cheap. For instance, mine is just as nice as the one for sale on KVF website and if I were selling, would be priced exactly how they’ve priced there’s! When I got mine as an unbroke 3 year old, he was still in the $20,000 range!

[MustangTwist]

@eclipse

Nope…just look at the link I sent you, honestly you’ll be hard pressed to find anything “cheaper” priced! They currently have a very nice dude, showing 1m who I watched go at Spruce and they want $30,000 CAD. That’s the reality in Alberta, jumpers are priced higher than hunters and command top dollar and even our good hunters aren’t cheap. For instance, mine is just as nice as the one for sale on KVF website and if I were selling, would be priced exactly how they’ve priced there’s! When I got mine as an unbroke 3 year old, he was still in the $20,000 range!

Whoops - missed the link the first time around, hence the confusion!

[MustangTwist]

@eclipse

Nope…just look at the link I sent you, honestly you’ll be hard pressed to find anything “cheaper” priced! They currently have a very nice dude, showing 1m who I watched go at Spruce and they want $30,000 CAD. That’s the reality in Alberta, jumpers are priced higher than hunters and command top dollar and even our good hunters aren’t cheap. For instance, mine is just as nice as the one for sale on KVF website and if I were selling, would be priced exactly how they’ve priced there’s! When I got mine as an unbroke 3 year old, he was still in the $20,000 range!

Hmm, it looks like a lot of their younger prospects are priced under $30k CAD (with a decent amount in an even lower price bracket), which could work for my price range. I figure import costs from Canada are probably half what they’d be from Europe?

While I’d love to get something that’s coursing already, I’m alright taking the risk on something younger and less proven if it has the potential to jump bigger/stay sounder/etc.