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Buying/Importing a Jumper Prospect - Anyone Have Advice?

Hunter/Jumper
#41

To me, horse shopping is all about grunt work, connections, patience and gut feel.

Grunt work: Search each and every website for a horse that fits your general parameters. Make a list of all that are interesting. Are you an experience horse shopper? Then only go see the ones that you really think are an option. If you aren’t experienced, go see as many as you can. That will help you get the feel for what’s available in your price range and help refine your gut feelings. Call barns within driving distance to see what they have available. A lot of barns aren’t tech savvy and may not have current listings. Be the nicest, most normal person you can be. People like selling to nice, normal people, and are far more likely to give you a call in a month when something ends up in their barn they think you’ll like if you were nice and normal.

Connections: Call every good connection (ie. people whom you know and trust) and let them know what you’re looking for. Most of the best deals/bargains I’ve seen are found through relationships/connections. Keep touching base with them as time goes by if you haven’t found what you’re looking for. Note that building and having good connections is a major piece in selling, too.

Patience: Take your time. I’ve seen several bad buys and all of them were because the buyer was fed up with looking and just decided to buy something. It might take a month or two of driving around every weekend sitting on things and building connections until you find something.

Gut Feel: Trust your gut. But your gut takes some practice, so see Grunt Work if it’s not refined. Every horse is a risk and you can talk yourself out of every.single.horse. So be rational, and trust your gut feel.

I wouldn’t look to Canada unless you’re willing to buy sight unseen or spend money on travel. With your budget, it’d be a shame to waste $1500 on travel that didn’t yield a horse.

Another tip - if your budget is $25k tops,all in, then your real budget is around $20,000 (to reflect PPEs, travel, shipping, and a little wiggle room on price). So set your price parameters at $30k BUT make sure that if you’re going to see a $30k horse, that they know your top end is $20k. “Hi, I’d love to come see Blackie, but just so you know my top end is $20k. I don’t want to waste your time if that’s not going to work for you.” You will find sellers that say ahead of time that they aren’t that negotiable. Fine, no problem, next. But you will find some sellers really need to get out from under one and they will negotiate a surprising amount. That’s when you can find some great deals. But ALWAYS put it out there first. That way they aren’t surprised or offended by a lowball offer.

4 Likes
#42

Younger and well bred doesn’t guarantee they’ll jump the big sticks nor stay sounder! It’s also not cheaper, it’s just that $20,000 or so extra is now just spread out over a few years (training etc). That’s one reason I prefer younger horses, my pocketbook doesn’t allow me to go and purchase in the high 5 figures, and I enjoy bring a young horse along but it’s still a huge cost!

For instance, mine decided to try to chop off his leg when he turned 4 and was just heading into the baby greens. I’d already had 8 months of pro training on him and now had a massive vet bill (thank goodness for insurance). 6 months later after a successful rehab, we started all over again. A year later BAM such sever ulcers he nearly died and a year and a half of monthly scopes and endless meds before we started AGAIN lol. The last 2 years, have so far, been great but still as an amateur I put pro rides on him to keep him in check !

I do do not want to scare you off, just to offer you the advice that younger does not generally mean cheaper in the long run. Being able to go out and buy the going older horse, means you get to show, jump, ride etc faster…very green or unbroke means many years of training them to a level you “hope” they’ll get too. Mine has amazing breeding, his sire has offspring in the International ring (Super Sox for one) …mine is a hunter hahahahahha

#43

This is pure gold, thank you.

This will be my first time buying on my own, so it feels like a brave new world in a lot of ways (even though I’ve owned many horses in the past). In previous experiences, especially when I was much younger, I’ve relied very heavily on the trainer/broker’s opinion. This time around I want to be more involved and more educated, and I also feel like I never really learned what to look for in a horse (aside from if it passes the PPE and I had fun riding it). I’m not sure how much I trust my own judgment to pick out a great prospect, and since my trainer focuses mostly on flatwork these days (and I’ve only been riding with her a few months), that’s why I’m trying to seek objective outside advice as well - and potentially use a broker if looking farther away. I am willing to buy off a video if the circumstances are right.

This is a total aside, but honestly, as an adult owner who is now making my own decisions about my horse without as much influence from trainers/parents, I’m a a little horrified at how little I actually picked up regarding saddle fit, nutrition, shoeing, horse management, etc. in all my years of riding and competing, even having done pony club. Being in full care/ full training situations was wonderful, but I feel like it didn’t push me to learn as much as I should have. Some days I feel like I’m trying desperately to play catch up, but I’m very eager to learn. Anyway, that concludes another rant in my “Adulting Is Hard” series, lol.

2 Likes
#44

I do appreciate the insight and I think you raise some good points.

Don’t you sometimes wish we had chosen a sport with less variables, like golf?! I guess you can’t choose your passion. I also had a young horse that kept encountering issue after issue, especially once I listed her for sale. She was an eventing prospect and I finally sold her to a girl in the barn who did the hunters and she was miraculously better (aside from a recent colic scare). On the other hand, my 24 year old advanced eventer turned jumper is the soundest horse I’ve ever met in my life (knock on wood). Funny how that works. Hope yours is doing well still!

At any rate, I am alright with spending a few years training the horse up. In fact, since I don’t have serious competition goals at the moment, I think it would be pretty rewarding and fun to do so. I’d like to jump the bigger stuff again one day, but I know I can’t afford a horse that’s already showing at that level now, so if I can work with a young horse with that as the eventual goal, that would be wonderful.

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#45

On the other side of everything, you can buy the best bloodlines, the best conformation, everything that meets your list. And it can still be the wrong fit. If this is a horse for you to enjoy, sitting on him or her will go along way. And training, what you buy versus how you ride can change a horse a lot.

I’m sure you remember a lot more than you think you do. It is very intimidating to face all these choices and decisions for horse care and not have the parent/trainer safety net. But logic and reason are never out of fashion.

5 Likes
#46

Why don’t you start a new thread asking for advice on evaluating horses when you’re buying them? There’s a wealth of information and experience on this board that is always eager to help those who genuinely want to learn. And many of us - myself included - never mind giving an opinion when asked, so if you need an objective opinion when you start riding, feel free to PM me.

Horse shopping can be uncomfortable and nervewracking. I personally don’t love it. But the more you do it, the more confident you’ll feel. Since this will be your first time, just go start seeing horses you think might fit the bill. Just get a feel of what it’s like. You’ll start realizing what questions you should have asked, or what questions are worthless to ask because they don’t really tell you anything. You’ll start to learn what you like in a horse, and start to get a feel for assessing them quickly.

The Full Care world does not help people truly learn the ins and outs of the business. The good news is that you can learn at any time, so even if you missed some stuff earlier on, there’s no time like the present! Good for you for wanting to take a more active role in things!

The biggest lesson I learned the hard way is to buy temperament. That can be a hard thing to asses in a ride or two, but learn to look for the signs of an honestly well-temperamented horse. To some degree, you can make a horse nicer with good riding and a horse more comfortable with proper management and care, but you’re stuck with their brain.

2 Likes
#47

You’re absolutely right. I’d plan to have the horse in full training at my current barn, at least while it’s young and developing. My trainer is good with babies, so I think she’d help put a solid foundation on it. My trainer is also pretty good about giving recommendations and guidance, but I’m at the point in my life where I want to know the “why” and the “how” instead of just letting her handle everything.

I’d prefer to sit on the horse, if possible, but I also feel like I could appreciate a lot of different types. I’ve ridden a number of different horses, and the only thing I really can’t stand is a full-on kick ride. I like them to have an engine of their own!

#48

Thank you, truly. I plan to post another thread (perhaps further into my search) regarding what to look for in a horse. I’m particularly interested in how to judge a good jump (esp. when the horse is free jumping) and what specific conformation aspects to look for in a jumper. I’m sure I’ll feel more comfortable after I look at a few, but it makes me feel better to know that informed and experienced riders such as yourself also feel a bit of trepidation about the process.

On the learning aspect, I’ve been trying to use online resources and talking with my trainer/vet/etc. to try and learn more. For example, I just recently realized my dressage saddle didn’t fit my current horse. It was custom fit to him (ages ago) and a saddle fitter and instructor last year had both told me it was “good enough.” Fast forward to my current trainer telling me the saddle, emphatically, does not fit. I didn’t realize his back had changed so much and didn’t really know how to check the fit myself! I bought a new saddle earlier this week, and the fitter was really helpful in explaining the structure of a horse’s back and different aspects of saddle fitting theory. He drew in chalk on my horse’s back and we put a few different saddles on to see “fit” in action. It was super helpful, but also drove home the point of needing my own base of knowledge and understanding to work from.

#49

Assume $15k for a bare bones trip to Europe for you and the trainer, a single vet check, and blood work/flight/ground transport to the West Coast. If you have to vet a few, obviously it will go up. Then add horse cost and commissions on top of that.

In terms of preparing, pick up a copy of Sport Horse Conformation by Christian Schacht. It will help you start developing your eye.

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#50

I think free jumping can tell you if horse has good instincts, ie picks up its legs/doesn’t hang them (that’s a definite no) and follows through behind; I’d want a 4’ jumper prospect to be able to easily clear 4’ on their own; if it hits or knocks down a rail, I’d want to see horse come back and try harder next time, without getting overly worked up about it. BUT it is not always a reliable indicator of how they will jump with a rider, or their max height over a course. Stallion promos often show them free jumping and jumping with a rider, maybe you could look at some of those for learning purposes.

Re conformation, definitely look at their feet! I’m sure you can find sources on ideal conformation, but I’ve also seen some wonky put-together horses able to jump quite well.

3 Likes
#51

Thanks - will look into this!

#52

Very good points all around, thanks!

#53

Also, not sure if this has been mentioned: if you are ok with difficult horses, once in a while, I’ve seen talented but difficult horses go for 20-25k/whatever you offer, because they were too difficult for their owners, who didn’t want to spend more money to get them sold and liked the person making the offer. But this is more connection based, with some luck (you’re there at the right time, other people know to contact you) and knowledge (also that you click with the horse or see something in him that his people haven’t, not just buying an unsuitable/untrainable/problem horse – I do very much agree with the point that brain/temperament is hugely important, so difficult horses are not for everyone, or it’s highly dependent on how they are difficult and if you can and want to deal with it). In some ways buying a known problem (horse has a stop, for example) is less risky than buying unknown (very young), but you also take the chance that the problem will never go away or even improve.

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#54

My friends who bought in Arg also bought frequently in Europe. They used well respected trainers with excellent contacts. Do think if you want to get into SJ, you need to make aquantainces in that world. It is very much who you know that can help you find a hidden jewel and the more people you know means there’s more people they know. You can develop your eye with videos but nothing replaces observation, particularly the kind you make in schooling rings or at home schooling sessions. Make some appropriate contacts. Go to some Jumper shows to watch and get yourself a good idea what you are looking for. And meet people.

Buying unbacked youngsters that have never been in serious regular work has never been my cup of tea and have watched many a prospect fail soundness wise when they started real work, especially jumping. It’s less risky to pay a little more for one that is well enough started to reveal if its on the fragile side so you can skip the vet bills and disappointments. Especially if you can only afford one horse and board out.

IMO for around 25kUS you can dig around and find something but it’s going to depend on who you know to be aware of them and it might take going thru one or two and selling up to get your 1,3+ horse, as Mac suggested earlier.

1 Like
#55

My barn has had a couple 3-4 year olds come from Argentina via the Henry Jota sporthorse auction, which if I recall correctly, should be happening in December. They were all pretty solid deals on very nice horses, however, the caveat in my limited experience is the Argentinian WBs run a little hotter and the youngsters can be a handful when they first arrive. I have no clue how one participates in said auction, though.

Edit: their fb is already posting information for some of the horses in the 2018 auction.

https://www.facebook.com/henryjotahorses/

1 Like
#56

No advice on the title topic of this thread, but for what it’s worth regarding the quoted, I was a DIY type growing up (and now) and learned everything I could, to the point of reading nutrition textbooks and memorizing the life cycles of worms (you can imagine how popular I was in high school). Much of what I learned is out of date now though, so even if I remembered it all (I don’t), it wouldn’t be correct anymore anyway, so I am also playing catch-up and learning as I go.

Point being: definitely don’t feel horrified! There will always be more to learn.

2 Likes
#57

Recently I tried to import a young horse which is why I can attest to the fact about the budget, and I had more money to play with and the same general criteria. Just Facebook search “Hunter Jumpers for sale” etc and a lot of pages will show. Post an ISO ad when you are ready. Be ready to sift through A LOT of horses that are nowhere near suitable for what you are looking for. You will probably get a handful worth actually looking at. To save traveling expenses, ask ahead of time if they have any X-rays and if they do if your vet could look at them before you try the horse. Saves time, money, and potential heartbreak. A new vetting should be done, but hopefully no major surprises. You may be able to buy a 2yr old that is turning 3 and $20k could actually be enough for a good horse.

Focus on a good brain that way if the horse isn’t scopey enough for your goals, you can sell it and hopefully make some money. Then you should be able to afford a horse with the scope you want. A trained 5 or 6 yr old that can jump 1.10-1.20 in good style and with an ammy or junior could be worth mid 5s+

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#58

Sent you a DM.

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#59

I would call Courtney Cooper, csquarefarm.com and tell her what you are looking for and your budget. She can pull together a group of horse for you to look at in PA or Aiken (depending on timing) and you can potentially see young jumper prospects or event horses who could cross over. She also has great contacts in Ireland and I got a super jumping mare through her from Ireland for under 30k (with the higher import cost). Courtney is professional and responsive and I won’t ever deal with buying or selling a horse on my own again- lol.

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#60

I have just been looking into this. Look on the U.K. Facebook groups for jumpers for sale. There are way more horses with way more experience there, even with import costs. For the same money you’ll get a baby here - maybe started if you’re lucky. There, it’ll be coursing 1m at shows and ready to go higher. I just saw one for 10k U.K. that did the 120s at Hickstead this year for goodness sake.

Also if you need a trainer to help, you can hire someone over there hourly vs flying your trainer there and adding all those costs.

Getting a short term project horse horse is an expensive risk when you board and self admittedly need a lot of trainer help to bring along a horse. You’d be lucky to break even IMO - there’s a thread on flipping in the eventing forum now I think. Have a read!

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