He’s been ultrasounded everywhere and bloodwork and scoped and urinalysis multiple times and his organs, and kidneys are all 100% normal and functioning 100% normal. I’ve seen myself both kidneys, ureters, inside of bladder and full length of urethra and ultrasounds of gut etc.
Everyone scratching their head as he does not show anything to suggest a parathyroid or adreno malfunction either.
I might ask them to run a Vit D which we haven’t done yet. If D is low you get bone resorption due to inability of body to correctly use intakes of Ca. Blood Ca will tend to stay normal untill significantly depleted from bones (at which point you’ve got other obvious healthy problems) But, bone resorp for calcium can cause this kind of crystal in humans.
Also, GI inflamation and ulcers can cause interuption of Ca binding with oxalate to be passed out thru feces in humans. Inflamation in GI can increase absorption of oxalates that then hget dropped off at the kidney.
In humans Calcium Oxelate dihydrate stone formers are often dificient in Citrate in their urine. Interestingly in cats and dogs calcium oxelate stones are common after administration of acidifying diets for some other type of stone like struvite. Only struvite stones can be disolved by acidifying urine! Oxelate stones are not disolved by acid urine and in fact FORM prefering acidified urine. Vt. C supplements are associated with oxalate formation in humans, ascobic acid aka Vit C is a chemical precurser to oxalate.
so as an aside---- only give Vit C or acidifying things when you are sure you have a type of stone or crystal that is responsive to acidification…otherwise you may end up with a worse situation.
In humans with calcium oxalate dihyrate stones and low citrate the may give them potassium citrate to alkinize urine and raise citrate. Also baking soda - sodium bicarbonate, but they shy from that because of the sodium which may be unwanted in some patients.
I’m wondering about the GI, lowgrade inflamation or ulcer that is not enough to put him off feed or make him quote “sick” but enough to make excess oxalate absorption via bowel that then hit’s the kidneys.
I’m putting this up on COTH also because I must emphasize—this horse looks great in every possible way. Pink of condition. Eats very well 30+ lbs of hay a day, drinks well, excellent musculature and fitness —to the point that the Vet’s at Dover said “wow. He looks great” as soon as his blanket was removed. His labs, scopes, ultrasounds are all NORMAL.
So how did I know something was weird??? One day out of the blue he felt oddly reistent under saddle. Very slightly, but to me, having trained him from backing up, I KNEW that was “not him”. I watched him closely for a few days and noticed he was unusually sensitive around his sheath-------which then lead to vet examination blood, urinalysis, discovery of crystals and further work up.
I can assure you 100% of trainers and rider I know would have attributed this to a training/behavior issue regarding increased work. I just knew this horse and I knew that was not him and something must be wrong.
How may people oh there run labs or urinalysis when there horse exhibits a slight weirdness??? Not many. Most heath issues don’t get discovered untill they progress to more dramatic presentation of trouble.
Since the horse is prone to kidney troubles----I thought it was intriguing, since my horse looks fantastic and is not “sick” at this time----------how often might a lowgrade crystal problem go unnoticed and over time lead to stones or kidney damage? Especialoly since what is causing these crystals is proving hard to pin point at this time. In my horses case they can find no signs like casts, or changes in kidney-----the belief is Kidney is 100% normal and doing it’s job correctly to excrete whatever XYZ combination of ingredients is reaching the kidney that the excretion process = calcium oxalate dihydrate. Horwever, one can surmise, let’s say this went on for 2-3 years low grade kidney and bladder and uerethra pumping this crystal thru? Could set up more trouble/damage. Horses excrete huge amounts of calciumk carbonate crystals normaly, they are ro9und in structure…but the oxelate is a little square with pointed corners if dihydrate. There is also Calcium Oxelate Monohydrate which is dumbelll shaped. These are normally found in horse urine, but not is the huge amounts you would normally find the Carbonate. And there more abrassive structure over time??? could irritate the whole system.
Anyway, I’m wondering about ulcers and GI now for my guy. He does not exhibit any symptoms outwardly, but, it’s possible a low level low grade bowel irritation could increase that oxalate absorption enough to create the ??? of oxalate reaching kidney for excretion
Also I would like to point out to readers of this thread—wow! How easy it would be to NEVER KNOW this was happening! And how inexpensive a urinalysis w/ sediment is! $36 from Idexx! That’s a pretty cheap test to run on your horse and it will give you some valuable idea about your horses organ function. A CBC is like around $150 and is very valuable too. But, suprising we don’t run urines more often as a quicky peek into the body. In the old days they examined urine all the time because it was easy and valuable given the medical diagnostics available! Many vets will kind of poo poo you getting a “free catch” because of it being “easily contaminated”. I’ve taken 3-4 at this point lab tested and zero have been contaminated. I use cups and glass jars washed on the hotest dishwasher setting without any other dirty dishes in it! I’ve also had my horse catherterized for samples direct from the bladder. But, being able to free catch and run a $36 urine w/ sediment lab test is a great way to know whether you indeed need to go whole hog for sedation and catheterization to get a bladder sample. Also, that procedure in a mare less problem than gelding or stallion, boys have rather long route to the bladder and it requires enough sedation to relax the penis fully so he catheter can pass.
I also want to point out that —I saw a lot of references on COTH to horses with reaction to beetpulp and soy products. Most people are aware of the goiterogenic, phytoestrogen, issues that “may” be associated with these plants--------but did you know they are both EXTREMELY high in oxalates? The feed processing process is supposed to eliminate the bad stuff----but who knows? And who knows what happens in sensitive individuals? Humans with Oxalate stones are advised to stay away from beets, beet greens and soy. People with horses in subtropical areas like Africa and Australia have to contend with high oxalate grasses that are endemic to the climate/ land---- their solution is to feed extra clacium to counteract the oxalate blocking of calcium uptake in the GI—causes “Big Head” excess phos to Calike you’d find in feeding excessive wheat bran.
So! food for thought!
Hopefully we are going to track my horses ??? oxalate crystals to their source and I will be sure to post it it!
