Calido I questions

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

I know he is a very successful stallion, so I’m hoping there will be some feedback:

What type of mare has he crossed the best with? Particularly with respect to topline and legs (both length and conformation).

What does he consistently bring to the table? I’m thinking jump and movement, but any particular gait or jump technique he helps with?

Will he add bone, refine, or is he neutral in that regard? He seems modern in type to me (without being too fine). How does he breed?

Weaknesses to keep in mind when looking at breeding to him?

Just trying to educate myself a bit more. Thanks in advance.

[goodmorning]

I’m sure some of the Holsteiner people can give you very good responses. However, I’ve ridden a couple, went to Germany & saw more than I can remember, and seen quite a few jump around - so, that experience is what I’m basing my response on.

I’d only breed him to something with great hind-limb conformation and a quality topline. Most were very attractive horses out of what I’m sure were not all beautiful German mares - lots of ‘type’, however, they seem to have bone. Huge canters, wonderful jumps (scope, power, and technique), work-man like attitudes, just a wonderful sire. The canter’s make you grin from ear-to-ear. Prefer his progeny out of mare’s with lots of TB blood. I would say he adds bone overall, but considering I’ve really only seen his get in Germany with a very different mare base than the US, I’m not too sure what to think in this regard. I’d say he throws horses with more bone than any of the A-line horses, or L-line horses, they all seem to have nice big feet…

There isn’t a lot to dislike about this sire - just keep in mind the hind-end. Really cool horse. Want one in my barn.

[RyTimMick]

Well,
I have heard you can breed him to any mare. This is rare to hear from anyone. I have noticed, and seen good movers from him, but his breeding indexes suggest he improves the Canter the most. This might be why he can be bred to anyone, who doesn’t want that. He improves toplines as well, and only seems to fall short in the walk. His ride-ability is through the roof, and this coupled with that canter explains a lot. One of his best sons is Cormint, the Reserve seigerhengst from 2006 I believe. This is also the full brother to Cathalido at Silver Creek. He breeds with a modern look, with sufficient blood, but no excess. You may know he sired 6 Olympians in the last Olympics, with 4 of them in Showjumping. This is an amazing feet. His is best known for his mares, but with Cathalido and Cormint kicking but, this might change. I hope this helps.

Tim

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

All information is appreciated.

Regarding the hind end conformation, is it hock angulation you refer to, or higher up? I can’t seem to find a direct side shot of him anywhere, but the angled side view I saw makes him look a little straight (but it is almost impossible to tell for sure).

I really like his movement. I really like Cathalido’s too–Tim, is he competing or were you referring to his offspring (wondering about the kicking butt comment)?

[RyTimMick]

@TrotTrotPumpkn;5731985

All information is appreciated.

Regarding the hind end conformation, is it hock angulation you refer to, or higher up? I can’t seem to find a direct side shot of him anywhere, but the angled side view I saw makes him look a little straight (but it is almost impossible to tell for sure).

I really like his movement. I really like Cathalido’s too–Tim, is he competing or were you referring to his offspring (wondering about the kicking butt comment)?

His offspring are producing amazing offspring. These two stallions out of the Carthago mare from Stamm 4294 are producing very well. It was in relation to breeding. However, Cathalido did do very well at 1.5 and up in Europe. I would state his contributions to hind end as not improving. I would not say that he has a weakness here. That would be counter to him improving Canter and Jump. He does not improve the front end, and this could be his greatest weakness as he seems to hinder the walk. This might have something to do with doing well with longer backed mares. I would not use him on short backed mares. Here is a picture of him when he was older.
https://picasaweb.google.com/rytimick/CalidoTrotting?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCND_pLTwjrX8fA&feat=directlink

I also know of a Calido mare out of an Alcatraz dam who jumped 1.5 gp. Lady Calido was one of the top eventing horses in the country. Calido is a top producer of top sport horses. They will be rideable and jump.

Tim

[goodmorning]

[QUOTE=RyTimMick;5732076]
would state his contributions to hind end as not improving. I would not say that he has a weakness here. That would be counter to him improving Canter and Jump. [/QUOTE]

Form & function go hand in hand, and conformational flaws do not preclude a horse from being great. Or siring great horses. However, there’s a thin line that one walks while making these breeding decisions. Many of the farmer’s in Germany have cherished mare families knowing full well, or at least thinking so, what the dam will contribute to the next generation. They can make these decisions as the they are hopefully educated & not ignorant in their choice. In the US, when using a stallion that has otherwise been not available, on a different mare base, one would be wise to proceed with caution. I did not like the hind-end on more than a few Calido’s. Straight through the hock & stifle - even a Verband person & some of the German farmer’s I met admitted that the Calido hind end wasn’t great, or commented “that one has the typical Calido hind-end.” Yes, powerful, but swapping out behind and clearly using the talented front-end, and work-ethic, until the hind-end is developed (by the rider? The one’s that I saw were in top barns, prepping for auctions, etc). Are these horses, who are bred to mares with lack-lustre hind-ends (or presumably so), staying sound? Just things to think about.

I would love one of these horses. They want to jump, and do it well, with a canter that makes you grin, but, you can’t expect every one that pops out to be great, particularly if you dis-regard some of the factors that might need improving.

[Hillside_H_Ranch]

[QUOTE=RyTimMick;5731891]
Well,
I have heard you can breed him to any mare. This is rare to hear from anyone. I have noticed, and seen good movers from him, but his breeding indexes suggest he improves the Canter the most. This might be why he can be bred to anyone, who doesn’t want that.
Tim[/QUOTE]

This is what I have heard from multiple, experienced breeders in Germany. I don’t think it means Calido is “flawless”, but it does seem to mean that he is “easier” to breed to than many stallions in that he has crossed well with different types of mares. I’m expecting a 2012 Calido foal and when I was researching him it was quite apparent that he has been crossed on a VARIETY of mares, both in terms of type and pedigree. I have been around several Calido offspring (under-saddle ages, mostly) and have really, really liked the majority of them, which is why I started researching him to begin with.

Edited to add: This is the only confo. photo I’ve ever found, and obviously this is a picture of him as a young stallion : http://www.germanhorseconnection.com/main.php/en/details/00754

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

Lots of food for thought here. No horse is flawless so I appreciate the knowledgeable input. I think we can all admire a proven stallion, yet have a realistic (dare I say critical) discussion about what crosses best! I really like his jump and have heard great things in terms of rideability. I need to look for a stallion to improve the hind-end and add sheer power. I’ve been looking at Goodtimes (bit worried about height) and Indoctro too. He must have good gaits (this is where I get stumped a bit). I would ideally like to stick to a stallion with a known production record, but am not totally opposed to a less proven sire. Heavier-style stallion is not a problem, light stallion is.

What about a son? I imagine the Carthago/Capitol blood should be adding power as well here? Are they throwing better hind ends? Capitol was rather straight after all. Makes you wonder about form/function a bit (but that’s a different thread).

SilverCreek Farm has some Cathalido offspring I like a lot. Even though I don’t need/want a gelding, I wanted to go steal Catanova last winter, simple because he looked like he was going to be a riot to ride once they started him under saddle.

[omare]

Chaleon is another Caliido son option.

[nicameo]

Frozen Semen

For those who have used his frozen semen, how was it? Was it from a recent batch since he was sold, or an older batch? I am considering trying it, it’s just so expensive that I am almost scared to. A friend used some from a very old batch, got the mare in foal but the vet was very surprised. He said the semen looked awful.

[ponygirl]

@nicameo;5744558

For those who have used his frozen semen, how was it? Was it from a recent batch since he was sold, or an older batch? I am considering trying it, it’s just so expensive that I am almost scared to. A friend used some from a very old batch, got the mare in foal but the vet was very surprised. He said the semen looked awful.

He has not been frozen this year unless it was just recently so any frozen folks have gotten this year is the older stuff that is not so good.

[Hillside_H_Ranch]

[QUOTE=ponygirl;5744823]
He has not been frozen this year unless it was just recently so any frozen folks have gotten this year is the older stuff that is not so good.[/QUOTE]

Hmm, the frozen I had was excellent. I only had access to a 1/2 dose and my mare got pregnant w/no problems; it also looked good under the 'scope.

[ponygirl]

@Hillside H Ranch;5744851

Hmm, the frozen I had was excellent. I only had access to a 1/2 dose and my mare got pregnant w/no problems; it also looked good under the 'scope.

I’m happy to hear this as you are one of the very few. In fact, you are 1 of 2 I’ve heard of. No others:(

[Jewels09]

Our Lancer II-Corde mare is pregnant by Calido. We used 1 dose and everything went well

[Hillside_H_Ranch]

[QUOTE=ponygirl;5745541]
I’m happy to hear this as you are one of the very few. In fact, you are 1 of 2 I’ve heard of. No others:([/QUOTE]

Well, I guess ignorance is bliss, b/c when I bought the semen I never heard anything negative about it when I was checking around!

[buschkn]

Hillside got her half dose from me and I had tried twice without success but was told it looked very good under the scope. Branscomb farm in CA has had several Calido offspring with frozen I think. Never heard anything bad about it, just the agent!

[nicameo]

Did anyone order any from judy yancey this year? I saw it listed on her website. Is there anywhere else to get it?

[raffey1]

Anne at “A-1 performance sires” had it available.

[Hillside_H_Ranch]

[QUOTE=buschkn;5746203]
Hillside got her half dose from me and I had tried twice without success but was told it looked very good under the scope. Branscomb farm in CA has had several Calido offspring with frozen I think. Never heard anything bad about it, just the agent![/QUOTE]

Yes, I’m eternally grateful to buschkn for selling her remaining 1/2 dose to me; she gets partial credit for the foal coming next year:)
But I wouldn’t have been brave enough to take the risk if I had heard bad things about the semen, so I’m thankful that I didn’t!

I will probably order more Calido from Judy Y. for next year. I’ve bought semen from her before and it has always been a very professional transaction.

[buschkn]

Saw a really nice horse today at a show and it had the most AMAZING canter so I asked about bloodlines and he was by Calido jump was decent omg that canter!