California Chrome- Is he really THAT good?

[RedMare01]

He seems like a very talented horse, no matter who he’s running against. I hope he can pull it off; he certainly seems fit!

I’m curious to see what happens after the TC, win or lose…given his modest breeding, who is going to go after him as a stallion when he retires? In prior years, there was talk or deals being made after the Derby for stud duties, and a lot of Derby winners went to the shed after their 3 year old year. Even if he does win the TC, I don’t see these owners being keen to retire him, which would be awesome for racing. And who would be breeding to him? Are knowledgeable breeders really going to go to him? I can see Joe Schmoe breeding to him just because, but is he going to get good mares?

[EventerAJ]

[QUOTE=RedMare01;7583045]
He seems like a very talented horse, no matter who he’s running against. I hope he can pull it off; he certainly seems fit!

I’m curious to see what happens after the TC, win or lose…given his modest breeding, who is going to go after him as a stallion when he retires? In prior years, there was talk or deals being made after the Derby for stud duties, and a lot of Derby winners went to the shed after their 3 year old year. Even if he does win the TC, I don’t see these owners being keen to retire him, which would be awesome for racing. And who would be breeding to him? Are knowledgeable breeders really going to go to him? I can see Joe Schmoe breeding to him just because, but is he going to get good mares?[/QUOTE]

Honestly…I’m not sure he’d be super sought after in the high-market breeding shed, no matter how much he wins. He’s kind of seen as a “freak,” outrunning his pedigree. Physically, he’s a lovely individual. But his page isn’t much – his first and second dam isn’t strong. 10 years ago breeders would have been willing to take the chance, but not anymore, the market won’t support it. Depth of pedigree is more important than ever, and even proven big money earners (like Einstein, Invasor, etc) don’t get the best books if the pedigree isn’t fashionable. I’ll Have Another was in the same boat, and he went to Japan. I think California Chrome will definitely stay in the US, and I hope we get to enjoy a long racing career from him. But he’s as likely to end up at stud in CA than with the best mares in KY.

[stolen_virtue]

Sometimes those of us with a bad pedigree do well for ourselves…it is the random breeding thing that has been improving any race for centuries.

[mommy_peanut]

While I understand CC’s pedigree isn’t fashionable by any means, why are some folks saying it’s poor or bad breeding? I don’t think he’s a freak or out running his pedigree. I think he’s got solid genetics behind him & crossed with the right mares, could pass on some of that good “old fashion” type that is missing from so many TB’s these days.

The genetics behind him…(Robert Miller)
California Chrome is line bred (related by breeding) to one of the greatest producing race horse bloodlines of all time, that being Nearco/Nasrullah. He has 12 crosses to this bloodline in his pedigree. Here are some of the great thoroughbreds from this bloodline; Secretariat, Bold Ruler, Seattle Slew, Nashua, Njinsky, and Northern Dancer. These are not horses with “humble” pedigrees.

A little more background on Chrome’s genetic makeup… Add in to the 12 crosses to Nearco/Nasrullah the 6 crosses to Princequillo and 4 crosses to Polynesian and the pot of genes are really sweetened. The Chrome turns to Gold in the breeding shed because of Chrome being slightly inbred to Mr. Prospector in that he is 3x4 within the first 5 generations of his pedigree. This makes Chrome double bred to Mr. Prospector which creates an inbreeding coefficient of 1.5625%. Therefore Chrome will have 1 to 2 matched chromosomes out of 32 relating directly to Mr. Prospector. The result of this type of inbreeding results in his ability to produce a higher level of “hybrid vigor” in all the foals he produces and a greater chance those foals can be winners if all the environmental factors and influences are present in his upbringing.

Robert Miller has been actively involved in Thoroughbred and Quarter Horse breeding and applied genetics for over 20 years and is considered by his peers as one of the foremost authorities in this field. He is the owner of the largest collection of stallions with the highest genetic percentage of famed World Champion Quarterhorses, Three Bars and Doc Bar in the world today.

Contact:
Robert C. Miller
563-299-6177
bbarc@machlink.com
www.bbarcquarterhorses.com
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php...3133&ref=br_tf
2504 Bayfield Rd
Muscatine, IA 52761

[RedMare01]

I am no TB breeding guru, but from what I know, his breeding isn’t bad per se, it’s just nothing special. Neither his dam or her dam did anything on the track, and they haven’t produced black type winners. He does have big names in his 5 gen pedigree, but so to what, 75% or more of horses racing today? There are tons of horses linebred to Mr P out there…look at any track program, or on Canter.

[mommy_peanut]

I think the point the writer was getting at, was the combo & percentage of linebreeding in his pedigree. Lots of good can come from proper use of linebreeding.

[danceronice]

If he wins the Triple Crown, people will breed to him. To think they wouldn’t because his sire and dam are not fashionable or previously big producers is insane. The real question would be could they afford the insurance to keep racing him? His value would be incalculable as the only living Triple Crown winner.

[betonbill]

If he wins the triple crown, CC could buy his own insurance!

I sort of have visions of him running another year or so and then settling down to stud right where he was born and raised.

At any rate, we have 3 weeks to dream of triple crown scenarios, sort of like having that “winning lottery ticket” in your pocket before the drawing.

[littlecreek]

He’d throw some pretty hunter babies with all that chrome and he appears to be quite a quiet good minded horse.
On to the Belmont, with a lot of folks having converted to Chromies!

[findeight]

They say that about most of the…what, now 14 horses?..that have reached this point, even Secretariat back when everybody knew Bold Rulers were a bust at longer distances. Seattle Slews owners were not race insiders and not popular with the press. Affirmed got dissed coming out of California where I saw him race early in his 3 year old campaign and go off not favored even at that track ( he won). I wagered on him in all the TC races and made quite a bit on the first two.

We really have to wait and see if it’s yet another disappointment TC wise but he has already proven himself a really good one either way.

[FitToBeTied]

If CC wins the TC then he goes down as one of the greats. It is unfortunate that there is no clear rival in the competition and that the times are rather slow. It gives ammunition to those that want to downgrade the horse.

[bcody]

I heard he may not run in the Belmont because he will not be able to use his nasal strip in New York??

[BoyleHeightsKid]

[QUOTE=bcody;7583504]
I heard he may not run in the Belmont because he will not be able to use his nasal strip in New York??[/QUOTE]

The strips are not banned… it’s a simple equipment rule. All they need to do is file a request with the stewards. They will either approve it or they won’t. If you ask me they are silly if they don’t. They use them in harness racing in NY. It’s a simple way of helping the horse breathe without drugs. Athletes use them all the time.

I read that they made the appeal on Sunday and the decision is due from the stewards on Tuesday.

[McGurk]

I was much more impressed with his win in the Preakness than I was with the Derby. The time was much better, solid good stakes time, and he pulled up like he had gone for a jog, not run a mile and 3/16th. I am also impressed by his calm, laid back demeanor. Social Inclusion left his race in the paddock and in the starting gate, Chrome did not waste a calorie anywhere except in the race - very important at the longer distance. I also thought he got a dream perfect trip in the Derby; when he had a similar dream perfect trip in the Preakness, even though he runs in a ring bit and tongue tie, I had to conclude that he knows how to rate and Espinoza has a wonderful rapport with him, and can put him anyplace he wants to at any pace without a fight - critical for the Belmont distance.

He also doesn’t mind dirt in his face, has a nice closing move, and doesn’t back down from a stretch duel. He won the Preakness handily, not under a lot a pressure. (I thought Espinoza was fanning the whip to keep him from bearing out on the right lead, I couldn’t tell how often he actually touched the horse with the whip.)

Conventional wisdom is that you need a classic pedigree for the classic distance. But I think this horse has a better chance of getting the Belmont than a lot of the recent horses that have gotten the first two.

[Linny]

[QUOTE=EventerAJ;7583154]
Honestly…I’m not sure he’d be super sought after in the high-market breeding shed, no matter how much he wins. He’s kind of seen as a “freak,” outrunning his pedigree. Physically, he’s a lovely individual. But his page isn’t much – his first and second dam isn’t strong. 10 years ago breeders would have been willing to take the chance, but not anymore, the market won’t support it. Depth of pedigree is more important than ever, and even proven big money earners (like Einstein, Invasor, etc) don’t get the best books if the pedigree isn’t fashionable. I’ll Have Another was in the same boat, and he went to Japan. I think California Chrome will definitely stay in the US, and I hope we get to enjoy a long racing career from him. But he’s as likely to end up at stud in CA than with the best mares in KY.[/QUOTE]

Remember when Silver Charm an Skip Away retired? They were both far better than CC but neither was all that well received. They didn’t have pedigree.
I have often said that the ideal TC winner would be either a gelding or
a poorly bred colt. Otherwise, they would be sent to retirement immediately after the Belmont.
As for CC. I don’t think he’s a superstar of historic proportion. He seems to be good and improving, but he’s also taking advantage of the fact that the top of this crop has all gone to the sidelines.

[Laurierace]

They were both far better what? Not race horses if that is what you mean.

[snaffle1987]

I do have to say that Ride on Curlin was very game in the Preakness and ran his heart out in the stretch to make an attempt at Chrome. His attempts failed pretty drastically despite his best efforts. Chrome amazes me because he is so quick to jump to the front of the pack and by the end of the race he has so much gas left in his tank that he just pulls away. Watching him from the top of the stretch to the finish line is quite impressive. His striding and effort is breathtaking. In addition; the horse never breaks a sweat and walks away from the race like he just went out for a jog. I think the mile 1/2 will be his real test in an 11 horse field but he seems plenty fit enough to make that bid. He is extremely composed in any environment and by Belmont time with a 3 week break; I think he will be game on.

[Drvmb1ggl3]

It’s hard, and unfair, to compare CC to Skippy and Silver Charm. They were very accomplished horses by the time they were done racing. CC may never win another race… or he may go undefeated racking up G1 after G1.
Let’s wait till the end of (hopefully) 2015 and make the comparison then.

[ravenclaw]

[QUOTE=Plumcreek;7582772]
Free markets aside, I believe is unfair to CC and previous Triple Crown hopefuls to allow horses into the Belmont that have not run in at least one of the other Triple Crown races.[/QUOTE]

It’s always been this way. Part of the challenge of the Triple Crown is that the winner has to beat all the others…whether they’re fresh or not.

I think CC has a good chance to be our next Triple Crown winner. He’s fast, he’s got a lot of heart, he rates, he’s very fit. I’m a bit worried about Wicked Strong and Commanding Curve in the Belmont…they both run like they’ll be strong at 1 1/2 miles. We’ll see. If it’s meant to be, it will happen.

Before the Derby, I read an article that had some quotes from Art Sherman. He said that he thinks CC’s experience (racing as many times as he has) will help him in the Triple Crown. Because he’s got a more solid foundation and fitness level that has been built over a longer time than the horses that have only run in 3 or 4 or 5 races before the Derby. It will be interesting to see if this theory holds up. CC certainly looks good so far and like his races in the Derby and Preakness haven’t taken all that much out of him.

[Mukluk]

[QUOTE=Calamber;7582810]
Yes, me too.[/QUOTE]

Me three!!! Hope that’s a triple.