California Chrome-off to Chile

[Lord_Helpus]

While I do not believe all that twaddle, I am concerned about the amount of breeding that is being asked of these horses; especially the young ones who are still in their 1st or 2nd year of covering mares.

Breeding puts a lot of stress on the stallion’s joints; particularly the hocks and the cervical spine. These horses are probably not evaluated (x-rays, MRI, even just hock flexion) before committing to double hemisphere seasons since the announcement of shuttling is made long in advance of the end of our season.

In the old days of 40 mares a year, of course, this was not an issue. But covering over 300 mares? Some of them several times, so we are talking 400+ times of the stallion holding himself up on his hind end while contorting his neck to the side.

Nature never intended stallions to put such stress on their bodies, especially young horses. And especially on a breed whose bones structure has become lighter and lighter.

[Texarkana]

@Lord Helpus

In the old days of 40 mares a year, of course, this was not an issue. But covering over 300 mares? Some of them several times, so we are talking 400+ times of the stallion holding himself up on his hind end while contorting his neck to the side.

Nature never intended stallions to put such stress on their bodies, especially young horses. And especially on a breed whose bones structure has become lighter and lighter.

I completely agree about big books, dual hemisphere breeding, and the stress on the horses. I don’t care for it, either.

My perception is that we seem to lose a lot of these stallions at earlier ages to unavoidable illness and freak accidents. Things that, “no one could have prevented,” but I often wonder if the physical stress from the extreme breeding demands plays a part.

But I do think it’s worth noting (for those reading who haven’t been in breeding as long as yourself) in days when 40 mares was a full book, breeding practices were dramatically different.

There was no ultrasound to track follicle development, there was no prostaglandin to short cycle mares, no deslorelin/HCG to ensure ovulation, no oxytocin protocols and antimicrobial lavages to clear uterine fluid, etc. Before all of this technology, a mare was generally covered every other day until she went out of heat. Today, most all mares are covered only once per cycle with considerably improved conception rates. A stallion with a 40 mare book in years past was doing the same amount of work as a stallion covering 100 mares with today’s advances.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@Lord Helpus

In the old days of 40 mares a year, of course, this was not an issue. But covering over 300 mares? Some of them several times, so we are talking 400+ times of the stallion holding himself up on his hind end while contorting his neck to the side.

Can you substantiate the ‘covering some of the several times’ comment?

As Texarkana noted, in today’s breeding shed, there are many technologies to minimize a stallion having to cover a mare more than once or so I was under the impression.

[Texarkana]

@Where'sMyWhite

Can you substantiate the ‘covering some of the several times’ comment?

Not to speak for @Lord Helpus , but I’m sure she is referring to the percentage of mares who won’t catch on the first breeding cycle despite of everything and will need to be covered again later in the season. It’s inevitable.

And there are still a few mares lingering who require doubles for whatever reason, although that practice is becoming less and less frequent.

[Where_sMyWhite]

I’d be curious what the percentage is of mares that fail to catch on the first breeding at a well run facility.

I do realize that there will be some mares that don’t, but it was my impression that the majority of mares at a well run facility do catch on first breeding so no re-breeding is necessary. To me, this comment made it sound like it happens fairly often. Was my impression wrong?

[findeight]

Think it used to be more common, we know much more today about determining the most advantageous for conception time in the mares cycle to cover them as well as detecting a pregnancy earlier. . Don’t have to guess so much. Never going to be 100% but less common to send the mares for 60 days or more for multiple covers as it was back when.

[Texarkana]

I know of zero farms where 100% of the mares catch on the first cover. (apart from having a lucky season)

If you find one, let me know so I can send my problem mare. :lol:

[Where_sMyWhite]

Texarkana, I know that 100% is close to unachievable (well, maybe if the stallion is covering 1-2 mares/year ).

Seems my thinking though was along the lines of what find eight said… used to be more common for multiple covers but more often just one cover now. If I find that 100%'er I’ll keep you in mind

[Gestalt]

Totally off topic but I didn’t want to start a new thread… I read just recently that CC’s full sister won her race. But I dont remember where I saw it!

[Where_sMyWhite]

@Gestalt

Totally off topic but I didn’t want to start a new thread… I read just recently that CC’s full sister won her race. But I dont remember where I saw it!

Discussed a bit starting at reply 37 in this topic

Overall, her race career isn’t anything to write home to mom about IMO.