California Trace Users - Heads Up

[FjordBCRF]

I asked if they do any testing of older lots…haven’t heard back yet LOL. I told her he was tested towards the end of their 160 day supply bag (40 lbs) and was curious if they have any data backing up shelf life.

Ill keep you all posted.

On that note…do you know of any data that DOES indicate the shelf life stability with Vitamin E? KIS trace offers a similar product, but am questioning now the shelf like angle of some of these supplements. If it all starts to bottom out after a certain time, buying a shorter supply seems like maybe a better approach.

[FjordBCRF]

Ahhhh look at that timing!

I’m guessing this is where the story ends.

[rubygirl1968]

I don’t know of any data but now I add regardless. I had him tested two years ago and he was low despite having been on California Trace plus and 2000 iu of d-alpha vit e capsules. The nature made brand.

He’s been on Emcelle since. Last year it had come up but vet recommended leaving him on it and retesting this year.

ETA - I did switch him to Vermont blend pro regardless.

[FjordBCRF]

Interestingly, the nutritionist that I am in contact with on this said that Vermont Blend doesn’t add Vit E due to all the issues discussed above. After this learning experience, I appreciate they aren’t trying to market it as having it if it isn’t available to the horse!

[JB]

I’ve been trying to find any useful info on the stability of d- and dl-alpha tocopherol acetate, and can’t. Lots of references to “not very stable” but no context, other than few where it was directly exposed to sunlight, so not useful!

Hopefully some chemist, or someone else with better search skills, knows or can find something!

I know generally, you want to use textured feeds within about 3 months, pelleted within about 6 months, in part due to the fat-soluble vitamins degrading. I would wager that most people are using feeds that are much fresher than that, so it’s not an issue.

[Ghazzu]

Here’s an interesting tidbit from an article on swine feed:

“The addition of Cu, Fe, Zn, or Mn ( P < .05) to diets that did not contain soybean oil increased the rate of α -tocopherol loss in comparison with NOTM and TM diets. Addition of Cu decreased α -tocopherol below 10% of initial levels in approximately 10 d.”

(NOTM=no trace minerals, TM=trace minerals)

[Ghazzu]

Effect of pelleting and expanding processes on stability of vitamin E in animal feeds

“The stability of vitamin E (DL-alpha-tocopherol-acetate) in pelleted feed for broilers and expanding feed for pigs during storage in controlled, but extreme conditions (at temperature 60ºC and relative humidity 80%) was studied over a period of three months. Determination of vitamin content was performed by Liquid Chromatography (HPLC). During storage for three months, the concentrations of vitamin E in untreated feed samples for broilers and pigs decreased to 62% and 74% of their initial values, respectively. In the samples of pelleted feed for broilers and expanding feed for pigs, the concentrations of vitamin E decreased to 46% and 53% of their initial values, respectively. Increase of vitamin E content, between pelleting and expanding feed samples, was not statistically significant, but shows that the pelleting process has a greater impact on the degradation of vitamin E than expanding process. Losses, in general, were in the range found in other studies.”

[endlessclimb]

This is interesting.

I bought a bigger bag of vit E pellets from Santa Cruz quite some time ago. Bought the big bag for cost savings, it’s only one horse so it’s taking me awhile to work through it. She’s on an ungodly amount of E, but from two sources - one is E-Se-Mag, and the other is the Santa Cruz.

I’ve followed this thread, while noting in my head that my mare has been tripping a little more than normal. Now I’m wondering what her E levels are, even with a different company.

Come fall vet check, I’m going to have her blood pulled and checked. I’ll update when I get the results.

[JB]

@Ghazzu

untreated feed samples

did I miss what the treatment was?

Interesting nonetheless, thank you!

Now - what about powders, especially those mixed with trace minerals? Similar enough to what I assume was a pelleted or expanded swine feed (in the first comment)?

[FjordBCRF]

@endlessclimb

Now I’m wondering what her E levels are, even with a different company.

This is why Im hoping to see what the collective hive can dig up here! It doesn’t seem like a standard “switch to another product” scenario if the Vit E in another product may have the same issues. And also interesting to me that Vermont Blend just leaves it out entirely when the rest of their product is so similar. I may email them and ask, maybe they have some data they could share.

[Ghazzu]

@Ghazzu

Effect of pelleting and expanding processes on stability of vitamin E in animal feeds

That was from the abstract. Here’s a link to the full text.

I think they’re comparing the “raw” ingredients (UT) to the pelleted or extruded versions, bith of which involve heat and moisture.

[rubygirl1968]

@Ghazzu

The addition of Cu, Fe, Zn, or Mn ( P < .05) to diets that did not contain soybean oil increased the rate of α -tocopherol loss in comparison with NOTM and TM diets. Addition of Cu decreased α -tocopherol below 10% of initial levels in approximately 10 d.”

(NOTM=no trace minerals, TM=trace minerals)

Is it the oil that (somewhat) prevents it or the addition of the minerals that increases the loss of vit e.

[Ghazzu]

@rubygirl1968

Is it the oil that (somewhat) prevents it or the addition of the minerals that increases the loss of vit e.

I have only quickly scanned through the paper, but it sounds to me like the addition of the minerals was the major effect noted, particularly the copper.

[lenapesadie]

Sample of 1:

My horse tested within normal limits for Vit E in April. Fed TCS Gold for the year leading up to that test.

*disclaimer I plant winter grazing so horse was presumably getting Vit E from grass all winter as well as what was in feed

[FjordBCRF]

Here was the response from the Vermont Blend folks. Seems to track with what you dug up @Ghazzu !

[Arlomine]

I have Dealt with this issue by feeding vitamin E gel caps. I do feed additional copper and zinc, and toss gelcaps in to the feed bowl. Seems like a simple solution, since I like to prep the barn supps in the am, for an afternoon feed.

[endlessclimb]

Is this aimed at milled blending? Because Shayney is also on poly copper and poly zinc pellets from ukele. I put them all in the same container and make 2 weeks worth at a time.

[Libby2563]

My horse wouldn’t eat their products, but the Custom Equine Nutrition person sounds like a class act!

[JB]

@Libby2563

the Custom Equine Nutrition person sounds like a class act!

I have had some conversations with her, some about her products, some just general chat, and she is quite lovely, from the bit of interaction we’ve had.

[FjordBCRF]

She is great! Ive gone back and forth with her a bit today comparing what I have been feeding to what they offer. Between the Vermont Blend Pro, their Omega E and Vit A, I would have all my bases covered with what I was getting with CTPlus, Platinum GI, and Elevate and save myself ~$1300/annually. I ordered a sample of the VBPro this morning and will see how that goes over palatability wise! I have enough of everything I can introduce it super slowly, and it’s fed at a lower rate too which will hopefully help. The only thing missing is the Bio Sponge in the PPGI, but they sell that standalone which I could use during the summer months if needed.

I am still very happy with the CT, he’s done well everywhere else despite the Vitamins but with his fecal water/GI support needs this would definitely be a better fit for my budget.

As an aside…I calculated what it costs to feed him per day and what it costs for my house of 2…Pony costs more to feed than we do currently If this switch works, he will be about the same as each of us cost on groceries and dining out LOL.