California Trace Users - Heads Up

[vxf111]

It has been a while and my memory is a bit foggy but IIRC HorseTech didn’t want to put Vitamin E into a custom blend for me because they were concerned about stability when mixed in with something else in the blend I wanted. If this info would be of use to someone I will dig through my emails and see if I can clarify what the issue was. I ended up getting two separate blends, one with the Vitamin E and some stuff and another that contained whatever it was that HT thought might degrade the Vitamin E.

And then right after ALL THAT I consulted with a nutritionist who TOTALLY CHANGE THE PLAN so I didn’t use the HT blends for long

[MissAriel]

@Ghazzu

@Ghazzu

Effect of pelleting and expanding processes on stability of vitamin E in animal feeds

That was from the abstract. Here’s a link to the full text.

I think they’re comparing the “raw” ingredients (UT) to the pelleted or extruded versions, bith of which involve heat and moisture.

Yes, the untreated blends would be a mixture of all the raw ingredients.

I would caution against drawing too much from this study as it is done at pretty high temperature - 60C and 80% RH (relative humidity). When we study the stability of pharmaceuticals the typical maximum conditions are 45C and 60%RH. Lots of work has gone into establishing these conditions to estimate the stability of a product over its shelf live in an accelerated timeline. Higher temps and RH

[Jackie_amp_Starlette]

Following this thread (actually appropriate as I am redesigning my feed/suppliments) and I use Animed Vit E/Selenium - and they have added zinc. So I am wondering since Vit E is needed to absorb selenium, have I been throwing away my money all these years. Sigh. Never simple.

[JB]

@Jackie_amp_Starlette

So I am wondering since Vit E is needed to absorb selenium,

Neither is required for the other to be absorbed, they have different pathways. Each can do the work of the other to some degree, as long as there’s enough of the one that’s low. Meaning, if Se is low, E can take over many of its functions, at least as long as Se isn’t TOO low and there’s plenty of E, and vice versa. They are needed in good amounts of each to do the best job, but aren’t dependent on each other for absorption

[Jackie_amp_Starlette]

Thank you for that info. I wonder why the big push for both for the SE to be absorbed. And I wonder why they added zinc. Must do research - and find another source without zinc.

[lenapesadie]

The Santa Cruz Vit E is affordable and just straight E.

[outerbanks77]

Interesting thread!

@lenapesadie

The Santa Cruz Vit E is affordable and just straight E.

Yep, I switched from CalTrace+ to regular CalTrace a couple months ago and started adding about 4,000 IU from SC Vit E. I haven’t had my horses tested, but maybe next time they’re at the vet. It seems I might have unwittingly created the side benefit of more available E while trying to save a little money. Hopefully my big bag of E is OK living in the garage. Any thoughts on keeping it in the fridge during the summer months? I will definitely at a minimum put it inside the house next summer as the garage gets pretty hot.

[lenapesadie]

I’ve only tried keeping it in the house in the ac in summer. But maybe others have tried refrigeration.

I’ve not supplemented either of mine with Vit E in some time. The RB I feed has Vit E added and I have decent grazing year round. I tested one horse this spring and I’ll test the other next time vet is out in the coming weeks. I will be interested to see the results of the next Vit E test; that horse has been eating the TC G Balancer for about a year now and it doesn’t have any soy products so no soybean oil. I’ll try to remember to report back to this thread when results are in.

[Guyot]

We have a lot of fat dressage horses and I tend to keep them all in full hay 24/7. So most of them are on complete forage based diet (RB were not working for my farm)

Wanted to join in because we have done extensive vit e (and regular blood work) testing on the horses in my care. Prob about 30 horses over the last 10 years (maybe more but consistently on 30)… 10 of them for all of those 10 years. We tend to test vit E mid summer and mid winter, every year.

We are in northern NJ and most horses on good grass summer months about 12 hours per day. All horses in heavy dressage work.

I have had only two on no supplementation of vit E and levels are stable.

Most are low when they come to me at lowest level or just below… we feed them 10,000 IU gel caps of natural vit E and retest twice a year and then drop to 5,000 IU when they are normal. And retest. If they drop we keep them at 10,000

About 50% can be dropped to around 5,000IU the other 50% need to stay at 10,000 IU

Some are on 10,000IU and stay low for a very very long time. These horses we keep playing with the type of vit E testing every 6 weeks till we find one they can absorb. As I have found that these horses are usually having an issue with absorption.

Within 6 weeks you will see an adjustment in blood from the supplement either up or down and switch out to new one and again in 6 weeks be able to see a change.

If your horse is in heavy work building a lot of muscle mass like a dressage horse I think checking and feeding higher levels of vit e may be needed to maintain.

We also tend to feed smartpak as the supplements stay separate or only mix one week at a time to protect the supplements from exposure to others.

[JB]

@Guyot

Some are on 10,000IU and stay low for a very very long time. These horses we keep playing with the type of vit E testing every 6 weeks till we find one they can absorb. As I have found that these horses are usually having an issue with absorption.

If you’re not using a water-soluble version - Nano-E, Elevate W.S., Emcelle - that would be so much easier to get levels up and maintain, than non-water soluble forms (gel caps, oils, powders, pellets)

[Jackie_amp_Starlette]

Thanks @lenapesadie - I need the selenium too (am in Mi and it’s non-existent in hay here).

[Guyot]

@JB We have used and tested it all. Water soluble doesn’t work for every horse unfortunately.

I think we have about 8 different types of vit E currently being fed to fit what each horse prefers to eat and their bodies can absorb

[bugsynskeeter1]

The UltraCruz Vitamin E does better at colder temperatures than hotter.

[rubygirl1968]

What is the “ideal” vitamin e levels in horses? I’ve had Leif on 2000 mg Emcelle for two years and last weeks test showed it’s 472 ug/dl.

For mature horses the normal range is 200-1000.

I’ve seen articles that call for feeding more if they’re metabolic or for other reasons but I can’t find what their blood work should be.

I was expecting it to be higher honestly.

[4horses]

Could you store vitamin E in the refrigerator? Would that improve stability over time?

@Guyot what brands of vitamin E do you recommend?

[FjordBCRF]

I should have Charlie’s results back after going on the Elevate this week hopefully. I’m very curious to see where our numbers will be at.

[rubygirl1968]

I’m beginning to wonder if the consistent use of psyllium may be affecting his body utilizing vitamins and minerals.

His hooves are chipping and cracking like crazy. The farrier asked if I’d changed his diet last time.

[JB]

@rubygirl1968

What is the “ideal” vitamin e levels in horses?

You want more than 2 μg/ml, which is 200 μg/dl. I’ve seen some upper ranges of 4μg/ml, but some as high as 10 (so 400-1000 μg/dl

Supplementing 2000IU of a water-soluble E isn’t too much, I’m not surprised it’s not higher

@4horses

Could you store vitamin E in the refrigerator? Would that improve stability over time?

The issue here isn’t the stability of the actual Vit E. It’s the addition of copper in the mix, without oil, that is degrading the E

@rubygirl1968

I’m beginning to wonder if the consistent use of psyllium may be affecting his body utilizing vitamins and minerals.

Longer-term use of psyllium has shown to actually improve hind gut bacterial colonies, so that shouldn’t be causing problems with feet.

[rubygirl1968]

Thanks @JB. After this bottle I may give my wallet a break and use the Santa Cruz powdered e.

The vet is coming back this afternoon to re do the blood draw. There was something wrong and the lab couldn’t run the selenium so I asked them to bring the xray machine and do some hoof shots while they’re here.

[Guyot]

@4horses we currently use:
smartpak vit e natural pellets
Swanson natural gel caps vit E from Amazon
Uckele
Ultra Cruz

These have been tested to work on those horses that is how we determine the brand. Little trial and error and blood work to check.

If deficient they are put on 10,000 IU daily. We back down after testing and time and keep testing. Currently we have some on nothing and some as low as 2,000 IU and some live on 10,000 IU for years.