Calling All Armchair Vets – Need Your Thoughts!

[Kirikou]

Looking for some ideas while we wait on further vet input!

Early teens QH mare has had a slow but noticeable change in personality over the past four years—more reactive/anxious but still very manageable. (Did a full round of Ulcergard with no change when it started).

• 3 years ago: Got cast in her stall and injured her adductor muscles, was off work for 6 months.
• 2 years ago: Developed what looked like heaves. (vet treated with Dex + we’ve been wetting her hay)
• Last summer: Was in foal, but unfortunately, the foal was born with contracted tendons and other issues and only survived 48 hours.
• Last month: Tried to bring her back into work, but she was NQR (right hind).
• Chiropractor visit for issues with the right hind also mentioned her that trigeminal nerve seemed irritated.
• Vet visit: Full workup done, pulled blood for Lyme (negative). Bloodwork showed increased WBC, decreased lymphocytes, slight anemia, and some vitamin deficiencies.

Vet is currently consulting with the vet school, but in the meantime, I thought I’d pick your brains! What could this be? What would you test for? Any insights are welcome!

[Simkie]

What personality changes have you concerned?

What makes you think all of these things are related to one another?

Has she been tested for cushings?

[Kirikou]

@Simkie

What personality changes have you concerned?

What makes you think all of these things are related to one another?

Has she been tested for cushings?

Thanks, @Simkie! She gradually became more reactive, spooky, and anxious (but it wasn’t a complete 180 like the EPM case I had for the past two years for instance).

I don’t necessarily think all these issues are related; I’m just listing everything to (a) try to keep track of it and (b) make sure I’m not overlooking anything “important”.

She hasn’t been tested for Cushing’s yet, but it’s on the list since she’s an easy keeper. Could Cushing’s cause these kinds of WBC/red blood cell abnormalities or personality changes?

[Simkie]

How abnormal is the blood work? Unless it’s really significantly out of range it’s probably not important. The white count stuff could easily be a reflection of a minor viral illness (even if you never noticed anything) and horses often test “anemic” because of the spleen’s ability to pull RBCs out of circulation and store.

You know she’s got something up with the right hind. Has that ever been worked up? Pain can absolutely cause changes in behavior. I’d start there, with a lameness exam by a good sports med vet, to see what’s up. You can try a Tylenol trial to see if that changes anything. (But no result wouldn’t change anything for me–workup the right hind. If she improves, though, then you do know it’s a pain thing. If she doesn’t improve, it could still be a pain thing but Tylenol isn’t hitting it in the right way.)

Since you mention EPM, it’s also a good rule out. It can present in so many different ways. Don’t take it off the table because you’ve seen it look another way.

Cushings can do all sorts of weird stuff. It would be low on my list, personally, but not a bad idea to test at this age, even if only for a baseline.

[Kirikou]

Thanks! This is super helpful!

The personality changes actually started a few years before the right hind “not quite right” issue?
But I’m definitely not discounting your point— great idea to try the Tylenol test. I just picked up two large bottles at Costco last week for an older arthritic mare, so I’ll start giving it a try tonight.

I haven’t seen the full blood results yet—my vet just texted me this afternoon with the summary I shared above. I’ll call the office tomorrow to request the actual report to be emailed to me.

Thanks again!

[GraceLikeRain]

Did you scope? Increased inflammation and a mineral deficiency would make me wonder about the integrity of her GI system as a totally unqualified armchair vet. Hoofbeats think horses not zebra mindset.

[Simkie]

@Kirikou

The personality changes actually started a few years before the right hind “not quite right” issue?

I’ve got a horse that goes pretty bonkers if he’s uncomfortable. He will look FINE. But there’s something that doesn’t feel good to him, and he shows it very loudly in his behavior.

Just because something hasn’t progressed to the point where it’s apparent to us doesn’t mean it doesn’t bother them. I would still start with a good lameness exam, since you do know now that there’s an issue.

Grace’s point about scoping is also a great one. Not all types of ulcers get better with omeprazole. Go in and take a look. Pain often contributes to ulcers, too.

[luvmyhackney]

What do her feet look like? Overweight? Chance of low grade laminitis?

Feet can cause issues like that.

[Kirikou]

Thanks, everyone!

Her feet seem ok (she is barefoot and fine on gravel) and I would call her “a bit on the chubby side” but the vet said she really wasn’t overweight when he came. She is apparently halter bred and really built like one (without the tiny feet). But that is an interesting thought! I’ll talk to the farrier some more about that.

[Kirikou]

@GraceLikeRain

Did you scope? Increased inflammation and a mineral deficiency would make me wonder about the integrity of her GI system

Good point, thanks! We don’t have an easy - local - way to scope (or do sport lameness exams) in our area. So we treated diagnostically.
Ulcers was also my first thought and indeed I’ve since wondered about glandular ulcers who wouldn’t necessarily respond to omeprazole. I’ll ask the vet whether trying to treat for those would be an option. Thanks, all!

[PaddockWood]

Can you tell us more please and put up body shots of her. What are her three f’s: Forage, friends and freedom. How much turnout. What else is she fed?

[Kirikou]

I’ll need to take new body shots of her since I don’t have any recent ones. Bad horse mum!
She is on full turnout (no real grass to be had though - especially this time of year with the snow cover) with a round bale of good grass hay and two friends she has lived with for the past eight years. We moved five years ago (with all of her friends)—before I noticed a personality change (and we used Ulcergard at that time). Other than grass hay, she has access to a salt block and receives 1.5 kg of oats and 0.30 kg of soaked alfalfa pellets.

[starsandsun]

Have you tested for Vitamin E?

[Kirikou]

Yes, it was low on the test (and we are in an area where I am told it is low) - so definitely planning on supplementing.

[starsandsun]

I would move more quickly on that. My horse was tested low and he’s on 8000 units a day. Santa Cruz and others make fairly affordable, definitely palatable ways to dose.

---

Vitamin E deficiency in horses can cause muscle weakness, poor coordination, and neurological problems. Muscle weakness Gradual muscle loss, Decreased performance, Muscle tremors, and Poor muscle development.

Neurological problems

• Equine motor neuron disease (EMND)
• Equine degenerative myeloencephalopathy (EDM)
• Ataxia (incoordination)
• Loss of proprioception (sense of body position)
• Gait abnormalities
• Odd posture

Other symptoms

• Frequent tripping or stumbling
• Lethargy
• Abnormal sweating
• Low energy or sour disposition
• Recovers slowly from exercise
• Poor immune response

[PaddockWood]

@Kirikou

(and we used Ulcergard at that time). Other than grass hay, she has access to a salt block and receives 1.5 kg of oats and 0.30 kg of soaked alfalfa pellets.

Thank you - this is helpful. How long and often was she on Ulcerguard? And she would need a vitamin/mineral balancer too in addition the the Vitamin E. The oats and soaked alfalfa pellets won’t cover her mineral needs.

She needs plenty of zinc and copper for good health. Would be good to see shots of her feet too. How often is she trimmed and does she have long toes?

And yes to supplementing Vitamin E. How long ago was she tested for that, what was the number and how long did she get a supplement?

[Kirikou]

We pulled blood last week - and so far I’ve only got informal results from the vet (via text) so I don’t have the actual numbers yet. So definitely planning on supplementing - not dragging my feet there @starsandsun. - just don’t know yet how low she is exactly to select the proper supplement.

She is trimmed every 6 weeks by a competent farrier.

I’ve treated her 3x with Ulcergard in the 8 years I’ve had her (did the 28 days course).

Thank you all! Much appreciate everyone’s feedback.

[ilovecobs]

Any possibility of a virus? West Nile?

Equine Enteric Coronavirus

[Kirikou]

Interesting, thanks!
She is vaccinated against West Nile and not a lot of mosquitoes here in the “tundra” at the moment. But I’ll look at the link you sent for sure. Thanks!