Baby hates, hates, hates, the vet and at 4 months is not that easy to restrain with incurring bodily injury to the handler. She had some rather intensive vetting during her first months of life and has not forgotten. Otherwise she is a perfect little girl in all ways- standing, leading, picking up feet… I am getting read to set up an appointment for shots and I would like to avoid rx sedatives- I would appreciate any advice on “calming” supplements.
A friend bought a newly weaned foal who initially didn’t settle well at his new home, constantly pacing and not eating. She tried valerian 3 times a day and swears it made a real difference to the foal.
[QUOTE=Pa Rural;7185572]
Baby hates, hates, hates, the vet and at 4 months is not that easy to restrain with incurring bodily injury to the handler. She had some rather intensive vetting during her first months of life and has not forgotten. Otherwise she is a perfect little girl in all ways- standing, leading, picking up feet… I am getting read to set up an appointment for shots and I would like to avoid rx sedatives- I would appreciate any advice on “calming” supplements.[/QUOTE]
Have you discussed the issue with your vet, mentioning that you would prefer not to use RX?
How soon will the Vet be visiting? Does your foal freak out at the appearance of the vet or at the needles?
My filly was super weird about the vet as a foal, as she realized he equaled a booster shot and the last time he basically managed to catch her off guard and push the needles home before she knew it was coming. Like over in a second. Not quite the “favored” method.
The next year she was getting tranqued for teeth or something and they did a twitch to be safe and then just did that first and then shots. However, she grew out of it eventually, I suppose as she came to trust people more and now it’s no big deal at all and I can give her a shot. And I’m very slow and careful when I do shots.
It was very strange. But my point is that she outgrew it with handling and trust.
One thing you could try is getting her used to the syringe without a needle. Just the act of having it “done” on her neck, etc. and then a little reward.
I’ve known several foals that weren’t handled a lot, so different than yours, and they also had to basically be penned in with cattle panels to do shots. They all outgrew it with handling.
Can you do your own vaccinations? I do my own and for the foals I did them in the neck generally while they were eating their grain and content. Each evening I’d hang a bucket with their soaked grain on the wall and groom them while they were eating. Sometimes while grooming I’d “pinch” them on the side of the neck. Eventually they didn’t care about that anymore. So when it was time for shots I’d follow the same procedure…grain, brush, insert needle (wait to see if they cared) then attach the syringe and vaccinate. I space mine out so did one one week and the other the next week on the other side of the neck. They never cared and as they grew I could even just walk up to them in pasture without a halter and give them there.
[QUOTE=FLIPPED HER HALO;7186801]
Can you do your own vaccinations? I do my own and for the foals I did them in the neck generally while they were eating their grain and content. Each evening I’d hang a bucket with their soaked grain on the wall and groom them while they were eating. Sometimes while grooming I’d “pinch” them on the side of the neck. Eventually they didn’t care about that anymore. So when it was time for shots I’d follow the same procedure…grain, brush, insert needle (wait to see if they cared) then attach the syringe and vaccinate. I space mine out so did one one week and the other the next week on the other side of the neck. They never cared and as they grew I could even just walk up to them in pasture without a halter and give them there.[/QUOTE]
Thank you all for the advice. The behavior starts with the presence of the vet or tech and or any sort of med- needle or dosing syringe. Also had problems with haltering after returning from a stay at the hosp. one month ago. I have worked through the haltering issue but still have a way to go with the dosing syringe/wormer tube. I usually do my own vaccinations with the exception of rabies which is req. by vet here in PA. The vet is due out in a week for xrays on another horse so the plan was to vaccinate baby at that time but I may just go ahead and do the bulk of the shots myself. My goal was to get them done before weaning next month. I am confident that she will eventually get over this in time. I am able to worm, inject and medicate everyone else here without even a halter on. I would like to get at least her tetanus and rabies completed before winter.
If you can vaccinate her yourself I would do that, and when the vet comes for the other horse, have him/her visit with your foal, give scratches on the itchy spots, etc.
Calming supplements work poorly at best, their safety is unknown, especially for a foal, and for a foal/horse who is going to have a real freak-out reaction, will be like peeing on a forest fire. Nothing with sedate (safely) like real drugs.
I would work on desensitization and resort to real drugs if an emergency arises and you can’t get around the vet.
I had a foal who had some bad experiences with injections given for sedation when she needed work done at a nearby equine hospital. It became ugly approaching her with needles. I found a really good article on operant conditioning, ie, reward for standing still for vaccinations, and she got over it. It helped that I vaccinated her myself, and the conditioning was very effective. I found an article that describes the conditioning, which is basically having the horse associate something pleasant with what was previously unpleasant.
Classical and Operant Conditioning and Reinforcement
Horses that are rewarded by quick feeding after inadvertently banging on a wall, kicking, or pushing on a gate quickly learn to repeat the act for feed. Conversely, horses learn that the sight of a syringe is associated with restraint, pressure, discomfort, or pain and that reacting badly tends to delay the negative. Ditto for intranasal vaccination or tubing.
What can the Horse Owner Do to Reduce Stress in the face of a Veterinary Visit
Horses learn with positive reinforcement. Approach a horse with a small bucket of concentrate and only allow a mouthful reward immediately after finger contact on the neck. Do not reward noncompliance. Repeat 30 times and until compliant. Ignore escape attempts. Graduate to a gentle push on the neck with a ballpoint pen. Repeat 30 times or until no adverse response or until positive response (neck held towards person doing pen push. Graduate to a toothpick. Repeat 30 times.
Graduate to a closed 3 cc syringe needle cap.
Reward quiet behavior while opening syringe case.
Have your veterinarian use a TB syringe and needle and reward with concentrate.
Have concentrate bucket available for all veterinary visits.
Repeat positive reinforcement with a finger with molasses on it, then honey, in the corner of the horse’s mouth. Then put honey on the tip of an empty deworming syringe. When the horse is totally compliant, give honey, molasses, or sweetened applesauce with the syringe. Reward with cookie or concentrate from bucket. Repeat until compliant for oral medications and deworming
Repeat the same process with a gentle finger in the nostril, then with a moistened Q-tip until compliant for intranasal vaccinations or just keeping the nostrils clean.
Carry a syringe every time you interact with her. You don’t have to do anything with it at first, just have it there until it becomes no big deal. Then you can work on getting her used to being touched with it, graduating up to faking jabs.
[QUOTE=Pa Rural;7186878]
Thank you all for the advice. The behavior starts with the presence of the vet or tech and or any sort of med- needle or dosing syringe. Also had problems with haltering after returning from a stay at the hosp. one month ago. I have worked through the haltering issue but still have a way to go with the dosing syringe/wormer tube. I usually do my own vaccinations with the exception of rabies which is req. by vet here in PA. The vet is due out in a week for xrays on another horse so the plan was to vaccinate baby at that time but I may just go ahead and do the bulk of the shots myself. My goal was to get them done before weaning next month. I am confident that she will eventually get over this in time. I am able to worm, inject and medicate everyone else here without even a halter on. I would like to get at least her tetanus and rabies completed before winter.[/QUOTE]
You can do calming agents, but that is a Band-Aid, and not a solution. The better thing is retraining.
Start now, before the vet arrives. Start introducing a syringe of sugar water to their mouth. Not much volume, just dissolve about a 1/2 teaspoon of sugar in 5 cc of warm water. When they decide they like this (guaranteed only usually takes 3-4 tastes!) and they actually start to reach for the syringe and suck on the syringe after you’ve squirted into their mouth, you’ve got your little “fishy hooked on the line” 
and she’s ready for the next step - Go through the whole procedure of “pretending” to dose up a medical syringe. Do a little tap-tap-tap on the neck with your fingertip, like a gentle poke, and if she stands quietly, then give her the sugar water. GOOD GIRL! says human. Next day, repeat. Tap, tap, tap on the neck. Wait a second or two. Tap, tap, tap again. Still standing? Then try tap-tap-tap with the syringe head on the neck. Then, dose with the sugar water. Good GIRL. Keep repeating every day always providing sugar water syringe and GOOD GIRL as her reward. Then a few days before the vet arrives, have a stranger pretend to be the vet. Repeat the tap-tap procedure over several days, always rewarding with both petting/scritches, your voices, and your sugar-water. Now you’re teaching her than even strangers can poke and she still gets sugar water! Hmmm.
When the vet comes, ask him/her to do your tap-tap-tap routine before he/she quickly, quietly and without commotion, just poke in the needle, swiftly, accurately, and all in one quick motion. Simultaneous to that, YOU keeping patting her neck beside that area so she feels 2 things at the same time - the needle poke but also your hand pat-pat-pat-patting. It kinda confuses the nerves a little bit. Then 1 of 2 things are going to happen: (1) She might react. That’s okay. It does kinda hurt getting poked! If she does react, say nothing with your voice, just silence, and move with her, quietly so. When she stands still again for a second or two, then speak up and say, “good girl!” and give her a scritch, pat, pat, pat. After that, stand there quietly with her a second or two because she’s waiting for the world to come crashing down, she’s absolutely convinced she is about to die… but nothing else is going to happen! Not until she relaxes. This takes a few minutes.
OR, (2) She won’t react at all. She will be a bit surprised because you messed with the routine…If she does not react to the needle - then speak up and say "GOOD GIRL!!! And pat-pat-pat on her neck, close to where the needle is. And then stand there waiting for her to relax, because she is going to be looking/feeling vigilant because you surprised her. It might take a minute, it might take mere seconds, but wait for her to settle. She needs time to process this.
Do require your vet to be PATIENT. You are teaching this baby how to be a good sensible citizen with the doctor in the future! Take your time. Stay relaxed. Breathe. Then, ONLY WHEN SHE RELAXES, does the vet add the syringe to the needle and inject the vaccine, and then pull it out. Good Girl! Repeat your tap-tap-tap routine, say your praise, feed the sugar water in the syringe - big fuss and GOOD GIRL!! And make sure the vet also rubs or scritches her itchy places after the needle is pulled out. We want her to learn that even strangers know where those itchy spots on the neck are!
The next day after the vaccination, repeat your procedure, sans needle and on the other side of the neck (in case that side is sore) and with your finger go back to tap-tap-tap routine and if she stands still (good GIRL!) repeat the tap-tap-tap (standing still? GOOD GIRL) and dose with sugar water. Do this for a few more days after the vaccination.
During this filly must learn she is not to get grabby for the sugar syringe. This is a reward, she has to work for it. You are not playing with filly to aggravate her. You are teaching her that even this pinch and poke can be something tolerable and okay to go through as long as the reward is suitable to her.
The goal is to teach them that tapping on the neck does not mean big, bad, terrible, awful, painful things. Sometimes that poke in the neck also means that yummy sweet sugar water in the mouth is coming very shortly afterwards and if they stand still and be good, they get happy results!
I use the sugar-water syringe tip also for teaching babies to accept dewormer. All of my babies hardly need haltering to be dewormed. I just poke it in their mouth and dose them. They seem a little surprised that it’s not the sugar-water, but then that night as they come back inside for the night, I come at them with another dose of sugar-water in the syringe. See, not all syringes mean yucky tasting things. Most of it is yummy! I also use the sugar-water to hide in oral medicines that might be yucky tasting, such as ranitidine if they might be thinking of brewing an ulcer. ALL my foals will readily suck on the syringe - they think 5 cc isn’t enough - and sometimes don’t want to let it go. This year’s babies don’t get this hardly at all any more, but if the ranitidine has to go in, they see that syringe and they so want it. They even come forward and willingly open their mouths for the dewormer. My youngest is currently 3-1/2 months, and the oldest is just rising 5 months.
Always teach your babies that something like medicine isn’t always a bad thing, and always make a happy sounds so they really understand that human mum is really, really pleased with them. It’s a process, and it takes some time.
