I have a lovely young horse that was a pretty bad stall walker (we found out after he was purchased :mad:) Started him on Curost Adapt and Calm EQ and stall walking went away within a couple weeks, anxiety levels dropped and he was able to gain weight. Not all calming agents are evil. Sometimes young horses need something to get them over the hump and make their lives happier and safer, along with ours.
[QUOTE=aascvt;9040185]
MVP, not everyone that seeks to decrease their horse’s anxiety and nerves is seeking to enhance performance. I’m not with a BNT trying to WIN at all costs.[/QUOTE]
And yet you ARE enhancing her performance by decreasing her nerves and anxiety by chemical means.
I seriously don’t get why it’s so hard to understand. ANY substance given to a horse which alters its performance for the better is ILLEGAL if the horse shows with it. Just because something doesn’t test doesn’t mean it isn’t violating the rules.
A spooky, anxious jumper who isn’t paying a lick of attention to the rider is not going to be competitive. Achieving the focused attitude and making it easier to ride most certainly enhances its performance.
SO, whatever you put your mare on, you should take her off of it before you go to a show. The exception to this would be a vitamin or mineral, since the effect those have, like Magnesium, is correlated to an actual deficiency in the horse.
A horse may be inherently spooky, but good, proper training has a huge affect on spookiness. My mare is exceptionally spooky by nature, but if I sit there like an idiot (or get scared or afraid or something) it is a huge issue, whereas if I ride properly, it is toned down a lot. Spooking under saddle is a direct disobedience to the aids and should be treated as such. Some horses need their hands held and some need to be put into proper shape so how you ride through it may vary depending on the horse, but dealing with spooking absolutely is a riding/training issue.
How often is the mare in work? Sometimes the answer is good proper long riding. She may need 6-7 days of work in the winter for an hour each day. Not convenient or doable? That’s a bummer, but not an excuse to reach for the tubes.
Are you longing her before you get on? How long are you riding her? How big is the paddock? If there isn’t room for her to rip around and get the winter willies out (or if the footing doesn’t let her), 10 minutes on the longe line to get the freshies out may be all you need.
[QUOTE=cswoodlandfairy;9040645]
I have found for my OTTB and actually has worked on any horse on it, is Shen Calm. It is a Chinese herb that is completely 100% legal and un-testable. [/QUOTE]
No, no it is not completely 100% legal. It’s actually quite illegal.
Un-testable just means you’re getting away with it.
Anything given to enhance the performance of the horse is illegal. End of story. Read the rules.
Listen, I get it, everyone does it, I even have from time to time (although only at schooling shows with babies where the goal was making a pleasant experience and we weren’t competitive anyway).
But at least let’s be honest.
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I’ve never had to shop for calming supplements, and they aren’t something my coach uses either, so I don’t really know the field.
Googling the brand names that have come up here, it seems everything includes magnesium in some form or quantity, plus some have l-tryptophan, which has an interesting list of side-effects in humans.
The Shen calmer has goji berries, ground oyster shells (calcium source), and sour jujube seed, the last of which turns up in human herbal remedy sleeping aids. It’s always interesting to look up the ingredients, and then if they are in Latin or Chinese, get them translated and then look up side effects. Love my Google!
I understand that magnesium has different rates of absorbtion, based on what form of salt it is in. I would assume that if a horse was jittery from a diagnosed magnesium deficiency, the most effective thing would be to supplement magnesium in the most easily digested form, and see if that helped, always remembering that one of its side effects can be diarrhea. If the horse didn’t have a magnesium deficiency, as other posters have said, then one wouldn’t expect this to have much effect on his behavior.
I always find it interesting when there are multiple products out there with basically the same active ingredients in different formulas. This is also very true of hoof care and shampoo products. There are a handful of traditional hoof treatments, including pine tar, chlorine bleach, oils, iodine, copper compounds, and maybe a few more. Two brands of formeldahyde. Shampoo and conditioners for horse or people: doesn’t matter what the bottle says about herbal ingredients or magic oils, these days the main active ingredient is always a form of silicone. yes, even in Aveda naturals (for humans)!! Anyhow, once you start looking at ingredients, it does really slow down your bouncing from one product to another, because despite the marketing and labeling, you realize you already have a silicon based detangler, a pine tar hoof pack, or a vitamin/ mineral supplement with exactly the same ingredients. The carrier ingredients, the smell/flavour, the consistency, might be different, but the active ingredient is the same, and if it didn’t do much in one product, there is no reason to think that it is going to work in another product.
I am constantly being disappointed by new miracle products, that boast of brand new discoveries, that turn out to have the same active ingredients under a new set of (often pricey) inactive ingredients. Now some formulas and consistencies work better than others (too thick, too runny), so it’s not like they are all identical. But near enough.
It looks like the same thing is going on with the calming supplements. Same active ingredients, which are effective for some but not all horses. If someone didn’t read labels carefully, though, they’d just be bouncing from one magnesium formula to another. But if one version didn’t work on their horse, then logially the others wouldn’t, either.
Lot of stuff is NOT on supplement labels though…nor is it required to be, plus no regulatory agency has authority to assure contents are as advertised.
Hence my answer to dependable calmers is going to be regulated pharmaceuticals.
Some horses just aren’t going to get by with just turnout and light work, they need more, much more. We often overfeed while under working too. Nothing you can do to change the basic energizer bunny type though. When I realized I had one of those, I sold them to those better able to deal with them and got something more suited to my situation.
Sometimes that’s why “hot” horses are less expensive to buy, they don’t work out for everybody despite all efforts.
You are welcome to your opinion, but do not JUDGE me on mine. There are no ILLEGAL substances in what I give my OTTB. It DOES NOT affect his job. He still has plenty of spunk. I have even ASKED at rated shows and they said it was perfectly fine.
So before you attack people on their choices KNOW your facts. Luckily I am fully capable of reading and HAVE read the rules. Do know act like you know me or my supposed lack of knowledge. I have always been upfront and have been told it is safe.
If you have a problem with it go to the organization that makes these rules you think I am not reading.
But luckily I know I am doing right…
Mac123-
Yes, the Shen Calm is legal. All of the ingredients that are in the supplement are not on the prohibited list. Trust me I do my job, research, READ and check. So before you go casting stones, know your facts.
I have ASKED at the rated shows if it was legal as my horse is getting tested at that moment. I never had a problem with it and they said as long as the substances are not on the prohibited list then they are fine. This supplement does not affect my horses ability. He is 100% safe. He still has is spunk and “hotness” if that’s what you want to call it.
So while your on your high horse of everything is illegal that is fine, but don’t push your thoughts on me who has taken the time to be sure. I deal with plenty of issues that he does that I do not “drug” or “enhance” as that is apart of him (Thank you track days). I just am a knowledgeable individual that just ensures safety no matter what.
Take your judging somewhere else. OP asked a simple question, stated the known facts and wants an opinion whether its a vitamin deficiency or if something else out there works.
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[QUOTE=Mac123;9040876]
No, no it is not completely 100% legal. It’s actually quite illegal.
Un-testable just means you’re getting away with it.
Anything given to enhance the performance of the horse is illegal. End of story. Read the rules.
Listen, I get it, everyone does it, I even have from time to time (although only at schooling shows with babies where the goal was making a pleasant experience and we weren’t competitive anyway).
But at least let’s be honest.[/QUOTE]
I’m gonna play devils advocate here…then wouldn’t you consider any supplements, USEF legal or not, treats, grain, hay, etc. performance from enhancing? Oh and let’s not forget about injections, chiropractic, massage, cold laser, shockwave, etc fall under that category as well? Last, but not to be forgotten…gastrogard 
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What is in the Shen Calm? Not familiar with it.
I think some COTHers need some calming supplements as they are a bit on edge due to decreased turnout. Goodness.
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I have good luck feeding magnesium and B-1 they both come in pellet form and seem to work the best. Depo shots have worked if you don’t mind giving the shots.
I feed smart calm ultra for the mag (muscle issues) and it does make my horse calmer. No worries, I have THREE trainers too LOL
Finish Line Thia Cal has done wonders on my mare who is spooky and hot
In all seriousness…OP, I’ve used depo shots twice on a chestnut gelding following a traumatic injury, stall rest and rehab. It worked. Only needed it twice! Used magnesium, quiessence and that’s it. They all worked for the two I’ve needed them for. I used the old formula of the moody mare back in 2004, but doubt it’s still the same formula…didn’t notice a huge change for that one and the horse used on. I’ve honestly found that with my current horse, sometimes a change of pace helps him. I’ll do ground work and it’s really a reality check for him and his brain. It works wonders for him and then I follow up with a hack out. I am one that believes in the less is more, but when they need a little help…it’s our job to be their advocates and get them the help they need “if” they need it! My old horse was just wired wrong and would kill me if the grass looked at him wrong…It’s just a huge game of trial and error and seeing what works for your horse! I think every horse is wired a little different and what might work for mine, might not work for yours or another’s, but could help get you in the same parking lot of locating that lost car!
Given the label claims for actual pharmacologic effect, I’m mildly surprised that Shen Calmer is show legal.
the Salvia species have a number of psychoactive components.
Findeight
It is a Chinese herbal supplement that my vet turned me too. I have used Shen Calm and Body sore for my horses both while showing and they are very effective without messing the system up or interfering with the body. I can say that while I used body sore for both my boys, I noticed it was far more effective for my older guy versus my current one. But the Shen Calm seems to be working with Remi well. I don’t use it as a calmer per say, he’s not hot or out of control, but helps with his moodiness ( like a hormonal mare) since we know that it’s not pain or ulcer driven.
[QUOTE=egrubbs;9041225]
In all seriousness…OP, I’ve used depo shots twice on a chestnut gelding following a traumatic injury, stall rest and rehab. It worked. Only needed it twice! [/QUOTE]
Be careful! You’re NOT allowed to give depo to show geldings and stallions anymore.
What’s in the Shen Calm? What are the ingredients? Are they listed on the label? All I could find was claims and endorsements, no ingredients.
ETA…Salvia is in it, familiar with that from my anthropology studies. Favorite of some cultures to induce visions and hallucinations. Can have nasty side effects.
Interesting choice in a horse supplement.
[QUOTE=DarkBayUnicorn;9041314]
Be careful! You’re NOT allowed to give depo to show geldings and stallions anymore.[/QUOTE]
It was in 2012 and for a horse that was being rehabbed from a major trauma and never stepped foot into a rated show ring or any show ring for that matter…one would hope that the OP or anyone would consult their vet and their governing body prior to using anything…
