Calming supplements??? Yes or no?

[Kwatson]

Definitely will look into his feed although I think that parts fine, I don’t feed him ten pounds of strategy that’s for sure but maybe I can switch him to senior. This accel supplement is a multiple vitamin with probiotics so maybe that will help, and it’s got magnesium as well.

The fall wasn’t neurological if you
Would have seen it it would be easier to understand. It was more of a baby moment. I love his forwardness and big bold movements it’s why I got him, and I don’t want to change that. And definitely not trying to supplement out his behavior.

[blackwly]

I think there are some easy fixes you can try before adding supplements. First of all, get off the strategy. It has a minimum protein content of 14% - way too high for anything less than a big time competition horse. Find something in the 10-12% range - as low as possible. Try to add bulk without protein (bran works.) Second, ditch the bermuda and find some low protein mixed grass hay. Feed lots of it. Bermuda is better than alfalfa, but not by much. Third, come up with a way to get him turned out as much as possible. At least daily, ideally 24/7. Can make all the difference with a young TB. I would move barns if I had to. Finally, try to get him worked 6-7 days a week (at least sat on - one or two of those days can be a hack.) I have one horse who is simply only functional when he has some form of work every day. Give him a day off, and the ADHD behavior occurs for the next 2 days under saddle. A 4 day a week program is impossible. Since I can’t ride 7 days a week, it was either 1. Hire someone else to sit on him a few days a week, or 2. Sell him to someone who can deal with his needs better than me.

I hate adding supplements until I’ve at least dealt with the absolute basics of energy needs and nutrition, but that is just me. It can be a pain to make all those changes, but I bet it will work better in the long run. Good luck!

[Kwatson]

Thanks for the advice, we don’t have 24/7 turnout available, I’m not willing to move him at this time because I trust my trainer and where I’m at. Bermuda is grass hay and has far less crude protein then alfalfa. 6-7 times a week is fine if you’re including lunging and turnouts but I won’t work him hard more then 5 days a week. I’m all for managing my horses energy needs but if rather do slow and steady then push him to an injury and he has an old bow from when he raced. So I am very conscious of that. Also, something to keep in mind my horse for the. Most part is a sweet heart on the ground . His to biggest issues on the ground is he doesn’t like his ears touched (possibly an issue due to being on the track, and he
Does have issues with tying in the wash rack when it’s not cross ties

[JenEM]

Mine was on Quiessence for a while. Not for the “calming” but for the supposed muscle relaxation properties. She’s been on robaxin for an injury, we noticed a big difference when coming back how she felt through her back, and I wanted something that would help with that but wasn’t a prescription drug. She was on Quiessence for a year and a half, I think. I didn’t notice a huge difference in level of “spookiness” but I do think she was able to learn how to refocus herself and come back to what I was asking for better, and has built up the muscling to allow herself to use her back better. So I stopped it…two months ago, I think? I haven’t noticed a difference since stopping it.

[yellowbritches]

[QUOTE=Kwatson;7410630]
Thanks for the advice, we don’t have 24/7 turnout available, I’m not willing to move him at this time because I trust my trainer and where I’m at. Bermuda is grass hay and has far less crude protein then alfalfa. 6-7 times a week is fine if you’re including lunging and turnouts but I won’t work him hard more then 5 days a week. I’m all for managing my horses energy needs but if rather do slow and steady then push him to an injury and he has an old bow from when he raced. So I am very conscious of that. Also, something to keep in mind my horse for the. Most part is a sweet heart on the ground . His to biggest issues on the ground is he doesn’t like his ears touched (possibly an issue due to being on the track, and he
Does have issues with tying in the wash rack when it’s not cross ties[/QUOTE]
Does he get turned out every day? Preferably the majority of it? This makes a HUGE difference in most horses, even if you can’t do 24/7. I see a big difference in my horse’s focus and quietness from winter (when he might get, maybe 8 hours of turnout) to summer (when he goes out over night and can be out for up to 15 hours).

And blackwly wasn’t advocating riding the crap out of him 6-7 days a week, but doing SOMETHING with him that many days. When my horse and I are solidly working, he gets ridden 6 days a week, but only works HARD 3-5 days. The rest are hacks or light, fluffy, stretchy ring work. But it is good for his BRAIN to feel like he’s going to “work” 6 days a week.

[Kwatson]

That sounds a long the lines I’m looking for, I don’t mind his young moment I just don’t want a whole days ride to be lost because he couldn’t refocus himself. I really like people’s suggestions for changing up his diet I think I may try that before adding a calming aid. (Which I never really wanted to do) truth is I feel like that’s a ways for people to get a quick fix for a bigger problem or a horse they can’t handle. But I do want to see my horse progress without running him into the ground like I see many people do with younger horses. And lately it’s been a lot of progression then regression.

[Kwatson]

He doesnt get turned out majority of the day, unfortunately we dont have pastures where I’m at. There are turnout arenas, which I do a couple times of week when i’m there. But when I do turn him out hes kinda lazy, rolls a bit and stands around. But i will look into turning him out more often.

And fair enough, I wasn’t offended by Blackwly comment. And thats why I said if that 6 -7 days a week includes turnouts and lunging then thats fine. I trust my vet and trainer so thats who I tend to follow my advice from. Too many people don’t do that.

[GotSpots]

Honestly, if he’s only getting out in a turnout arena a couple of times a week for a short period of time, that’s likely going to be the source of your issue. Way before I’d try a “calming supplement” (which for the most part either don’t work, or if they do, are illegal to show under), I’d be looking into getting him out to be a horse for a minimum of 4-6 hours/day (and more if possible, though it may not be). It’s not about a horse running around - most of mine, even the fit upper level ones, don’t do that much. It’s about time for them to be a horse, to stretch their legs, to wander around, to eat hay and walk, to shake out their souls. Horses who are in a stall 22-23 hours per day, in my experience, are less focused, have more nervous energy, and tend to be much harder on themselves.

[Kwatson]

That makes very good sense, unfortunately thats not much of a luxury I have at my current facility or any other facilities near me. The arenas are all dirt and have an unspoken time limit to keep other boarders happy. I will still try getting him turned out more though.

[Kwatson]

So this is what I am taking away from this forum…
Change up his feed (thinking about trying triple crown complete)
More turn outs
And talking to his vet about ulcer, digestion issues, etc.
Will also ask trainer and vet about quiessence magnesium supplement.

Thank you all so much its nice to hear the thoughs and opinions of fellow horse owners.

[ake987]

I know a lot of people who have had success on multiple levels with Quiessence for the issues mentioned, but I just thought I would throw out that during a Lucinda Green clinic (while my horse was on Quiessence) she mentioned that TOO much magnesium can have the opposite of the desired calming/loosening up effect - so knowing what your horse’s mag levels are before supplementing with it might be something to consider. I did not check his levels, but I did a feed analysis and he was getting enough mag without the Q, so I stopped it, and did see a decrease in his jittery/anxious behavior. Of course, correlation =/= causation.

Good luck!

[ACMEeventing]

Just want to say good luck. Often this topic derails a thread pretty quickly. I’m really happy that this one seemed genuine (from you, OP) and really helpful from the COTH collective.

Let us know how it goes!

[scubed]

I am a big believer in a few things (and have dealt with my share of hotter TBs, though all with a fundamentally good brain)

1. turn out. As much as you can. My guy goes out overnight which (from about 5 pm until 7 am) which is a huge help.
2. hacking, lots of hacking (although like lunging, it may make the horse fitter than desirable)
3. Feed. I noticed a huge difference when we switched to the Nutrena High Fat Performance Pellet (we fed Safe Choice and Senior before that and they just weren’t as good). Also, no alfalfa (which you already have covered).
4. Stomach treatment. A month of gastrogard (or pop rocks) once or twice per year (depending on the horse), a supplement with probiotics and prebiotics and daily powdered omeprazole.
5. Enough ground work that your horse calms to your voice
6. a “safe exercise” Mine is usually a 12 meter figure 8. Whenever the horse gets hot or reactive, I put him back on the 12 meter figure 8, something he understands and has done so often, it is a bit boring.

[Kwatson]

[QUOTE=ACMEeventing;7410893]
Just want to say good luck. Often this topic derails a thread pretty quickly. I’m really happy that this one seemed genuine (from you, OP) and really helpful from the COTH collective.

Let us know how it goes![/QUOTE]

Have to admit from reading forums I was a little nervouse about posting this, but to each there own, and after all I’m the one seeking the advise it would be silly of me to get offended over something I asked for.

Thank you, I will give an update once I try out all my ne found info

[Kwatson]

I dont think I have a hot thoroughbred, I think its more along the lines of him being so young and having that typical thoroughbred brain. He gets unbalance, he’s not so confident, and getting him focused can be difficult. And it doesnt help that I can be unconfident and apprehensive at times. I think all in all this is a me issue and learning what i can do to help my horse be the best he can be. And so far I am taking a lot of the advice into consideration

[jstov96327]

I know exactly how you feel and I have a mare who sounds very similar. She is on 24/7 turnout unless it is freezing or snowing and timothy grass hay and she still manages to be a handful. I have reached out for advice on sites as well and had so many people tell me supplements don’t work and its all about training and blah blah which to an extent I agree with but being super stressed and nervous isn’t good for the horse. I am trying Smartpak’s Calming Pellets because i’ve heard great things so we will see. If this doesn’t help at all i’m going to look into ulcer treatments. Let me know what you do try and if you have any success because I’d love to hear!

[LHL]

Aside from the mare I posted about earlier, I have also worked with quite a few horses with behavior problems. The first thing I did was to limit their diet to crushed oats [about 10% protein], grass hay or timothy, and pasture. No supplements or processed foods whatsoever. Then I scheduled a vet exam, a chiropractor, and bit and saddle fitting. Within two weeks I was able to establish base line for personality and energy level and make any adjustments that seemed necessary.
When you look at the list of ingredients on processed feeds, there are many ingredients that are left over from the manufacturing of foods for human consumption. These are cheap for the manufacturer. They are not top quality ingredients. Then other ingredients are added to increase vitamin/mineral content and palatability. Because I grew up with a health/nutrition conscious mother, I never wanted to feed manufactured grains or pellets to my other horses. So I mixed my own feed - crushed oats, cracked corn and barley. Again no supplements. When Rutgers did a study in the 80’s at the Essex 3-Day Event checking conditioning, heart, respiration and weight loss and comparing it to the feeding program the horses were given. The horses that scored the highest were on the same feeding program I was using.
Just some more thoughts - hope they’re helpful.

[Feliz]

LHL - so you don’t feed a Vit & Mineral mix at all? Do you get your horses blood tested?

I’m really curious because it seems that we have to add V&Ms - but my horse lives on pasture or grass hay 24/7 - so does he really need this as well?

[DangerousDevo]

I’ve had good luck with Quiessence with an OTTB that was a tough let-down. He was constantly on edge and tense - very sensitive in the back to just brushing. IMHO, the magnesium helped relax the muscle more than his brain; less tense muscle= less pain/discomfort = less irritable/reactive=less anxiety. Once we broke that cycle, we were able to make some real progress in terms of flexion and relaxation, which reduced the anxiety. Eventually, I took him off of it and he has continued to progress. As others have noted, it does take a few days to really see the full effect. I also used Thia-Cal; it has less mg so I didn’t see the same effect.

[LHL]

Feliz - This was back in the 80’s when we didn’t do things like blood testing unless the horse was sick or doing poorly. My horses did very well - I only had one sick horse in 15 years - a yearling who ate a beach plum growing in the hedge row. Otherwise my vet bills were their annual shots and/or injury related. Pasture turnout is important because they contain a lot of vitamins and minerals in the variety of plants growing in them. Additionally we had small eight stall, horse oriented , stress free environment in which I did most of the care and work myself . There are many factors, but this diet worked well for the 30 or so horses in my care over the years.