Can a noseband or flash help with bit stability?

[blob99]

A drop noseband is literally designed to stabilize the bit, it’s why it’s the go to nose noseband for green horses in Europe. It’s a shame it’s gone out of style here.

the flash is designed to limit mouth movement and can therefore result in a more stable mouth feel.

the question is, is the horse fussy because he wants less bit movement? If so, use a drop.

is he fussy because he likes to play/ picked up a habit from past bits? Then a flash can help

or, is he fussy because he needs a different bit?

or because he needs to be more in front of the leg?

[ideayoda]

How is the horse fussy? Chewing/jammering or unstable on the bit or ?? The purpose of a drop is to keep keep a young horse from crossing the jaw (when combined with a fulmer or full cheek), however a flash really doesnt serve that purpose. But perhaps that type of bit would be better stability. Since you mentioned a Micklem, they are useful (when used with the snaps) from having the bit act backwards (onto the tongue or bars), and help with stability. (And one could simply tie front of a snaffle to the loop of a flash and have the same effect for a few riders.) If a bit is properly fitted (with wrinkles) the bit will be rather stable into the corners of the lips, but a (loose ring/etc) type bit can easily be pulled sideway (hence a full cheek/D/etc) are indeed more stable. Flashes rarely alleviate fussiness, the major question is to ask why it is there, not to mask or bury the reactions. And certainly NOT tightened. The other question is why is the horse resistant? To what? Perhaps start with work in hand, make sure the horse is allowed to lift the neck up, that it is in front of the vertical (is seeking the hand); and be progressive about the rein effects each day, ad how they are introduced. Figures (lateral flexibility) are indeed very useful, makes sure they are based on the (positioning of the) leg.

[merrygoround]

"(And one could simply tie front of a snaffle to the loop of a flash and have the same effect for a few riders.) "-ideayoda

Please, how exactly does one do that?

[jawa]

@merrygoround the flash is run through its normal loop on the noseband. The loose ends are run through the bit rings and then back towards the loop and fastened together at that location, rather than under the chin.

When used in this fashion there is some pressure on the nose when the reins are applied.

To the OP, have you changed the height of the bit in the horses mouth. Some horse seem happier when they have more wrinkles than fewer. Or maybe lower the bit, if you are having issues with fat cheeks getting in the way. As an aside, I find the mullen mouth bits seem to work well with horses who like a bit lower in the mouth.

Tension and gaping in the mouth can be unrelated to bit. My OTTB gets that way when he’s unhappy about saddle fit.

[alibi_18]

Flashes are meant to stabilize the bit, but they have to be well adjusted; high enough.

The caveson needs to be close to the cheek bones.

I also see a lot of ill-fitted bits; too wide and too low in the horse’s mouth are common.

So first, check if your bit is at the right place and of the right width.

Then put the caveson at the right place and try the flash.

[HereComesZach]

Thanks, all! I’ll try to answer several responders questions here, sorry for not addressing individually:

• By 'fussy,' I mean when I first put his bridle on he tends to stick his head in the air, gape his mouth, stick his tongue out, and move his jaw side to side. He'll stop after a few seconds. Once I'm warming up, he tends to 'chew' the bit, softly (his mouth doesn't gape open when we ride, he just chews busily.)
• I do suspect that he gets better after warm up because we focus on suppling and getting in front of the leg. Once he is finally working through his back, the problem rarely comes up again - as long as my hands are accommodating.
• I do suspect the stubben freedom bridle helps, as I believe it's alleviating poll pressure that he is sensitive to.
• I'm pretty much ALWAYS happy for a reason to go tack shopping for new bits hahaha! However, once he settles onto this current bit, he seems happy, so I'm reticent to switch things up. (But not entirely opposed.)
• I do believe he prefers a bit with less movement, so the eggbutt he's in now is actually a bradoon, the smaller 'eggs' provide less movement. It just happened to be what I had on hand. That's why I was considering a baucher next.
• I have played around with placement of the bit in his mouth. Unfortunately, I've run into a problem where the cheekpieces on his bridle won't go up farther (I already punched holes in it.). I contacted stubben, and they won't sell me shorter cheek pieces. I can't get them elsewhere because they are not standard cheekpieces.
• At the highest, I can get the bit high enough to form one wrinkle in his mouth.

[alibi_18]

This, to me, indicates that the bit doesn’t fit really well.

It’s also winter for most, do you warm up the bit?

@HereComesZach

By ‘fussy,’ I mean when I first put his bridle on he tends to stick his head in the air, gape his mouth, stick his tongue out, and move his jaw side to side. He’ll stop after a few seconds. Once I’m warming up, he tends to ‘chew’ the bit, softly (his mouth doesn’t gape open when we ride, he just chews busily.)

I do suspect that he gets better after warm up because we focus on suppling and getting in front of the leg. Once he is finally working through his back, the problem rarely comes up again - as long as my hands are accommodating.

More because you are pulling and keeping the bit higher in its mouth.

At the highest, I can get the bit high enough to form one wrinkle in his mouth.

That’s too low.

Would you mind adding a picture? or in pm.

[TequilaMockingbird]

My fussy mare ultimately has gone better in a baucher bit than anything else. It seems to be due to the bit stability. I used to be able to ride her in a Micklem but she hates it and anything that resembles a flash now.

I always keep the noseband loose and never use a flash.

[BigMama1]

As always I think it comes down to whether you use it properly and what your horse prefers. I spent a fortune on an “anatomical” bridle for my horse and he hated it. It seemed to fit him fine but clearly had some pressure points somewhere that caused pain.

He goes best in his snaffle with a flash to keep the bit stable, but not done up so tightly he can’t chew or swallow or open his mouth. If anyone is using a flash or noseband to keep the mouth closed tight they aren’t using them properly.

In the double it took us a while to find the right bit combo. He seems to prefer a more Mullen mouth to a port and likes the bits sitting a bit high where they seem more stable

[Samantha37]

For both of my OTTBs (one doing 3rd level, one that has 120 days retraining off the track) I use regular snaffle bridles with flashes (not anatomic). I do the flashes pretty loose- I can easily fit a finger in there- they can still open their mouths to some extent (enough to take treats for sure) and they can definitely chew. For the 3rd level horse, it is for bit stabilization solely as he is not mouthy on the bit at all. For the young one, who is all over the place and very mouthy, it is for bit stabilization as well as steering help. If he can’t open his mouth completely wide open to evade steering it tends to help

[jawa]

@HereComesZach does he need a cob bridle? Or a horse bridle with cob cheek pieces? It may be worth it to play with a bridle that allows you to move the bit up in his mouth. A baucher may actually make the bit sit lower in his mouth than a regular snaffle. Some horses are happy to hold the bit themselves while others want the bit to be held in place for them.

[beau159]

@SonnysMom

Micklem is a bridle maker. To my knowledge they don’t make bits. Some horses seem to really like them and others don’t care. There are some anatomical differences that may make a difference to some horses.

Gotcha. I read the post wrong. Re-reading it makes more sense now.

[alibi_18]

@jawa

@HereComesZach does he need a cob bridle? Or a horse bridle with cob cheek pieces? It may be worth it to play with a bridle that allows you to move the bit up in his mouth. A baucher may actually make the bit sit lower in his mouth than a regular snaffle.

I looked at pictures of the Stubben bridle and honestly, I haven’t seen much well-fitted ones, mostly hanging too low.
It seems badly constructed as the bit hangers are held lower and at an angle of some sort.

Some horses are happy to hold the bit themselves while others want the bit to be held in place for them.

To me, the horse shouldn’t me « holding » its bit in place because it has to locks its jaw, which you don’t want.
There is a western practice to have heavy (1-2lbs) bits to make the horse keep its mouth shut.

[SillyHorse]

@HereComesZach

I have played around with placement of the bit in his mouth. Unfortunately, I've run into a problem where the cheekpieces on his bridle won't go up farther (I already punched holes in it.). I contacted stubben, and they won't sell me shorter cheek pieces. I can't get them elsewhere because they are not standard cheekpieces.

At the highest, I can get the bit high enough to form one wrinkle in his mouth. [/LIST]

You can take your cheekpieces to a cobbler or shoemaker, or if there’s a local tack repair person even better, and have them shortened. It’s usually a pretty simple job.

[alibi_18]

@SillyHorse

You can take your cheekpieces to a cobbler or shoemaker, or if there’s a local tack repair person even better, and have them shortened. It’s usually a pretty simple job.

The way the bridle is constructed, there is not much place to fix this.

At +500$, there should be more ways to adjust it.

[endlessclimb]

@alibi_18

To me, the horse shouldn’t me « holding » its bit in place because it has to locks its jaw, which you don’t want.
There is a western practice to have heavy (1-2lbs) bits to make the horse keep its mouth shut.

snip I understood this practice was to encourage them to keep their heads down and quiet, to keep the heavy-ringed bit neutral in the mouth.

[alibi_18]

@endlessclimb

snip I understood this practice was to encourage them to keep their heads down and quiet, to keep the heavy-ringed bit neutral in the mouth.

That too, but rest assure that they do close their mouth on those bits.

At first glance, they don’t seem like harsh bits but they are, and when you add heavy reins (2lbs as well) + thick slobber straps…
When training is lacking :rolleyes:

[HereComesZach]

Yes, he is currently in a cob bridle, he has a very small/short head, and a teeny tiny mouth and palate. I’ve been sick and the weather has been uncooperative here, but I will try to get a picture to share of his current set up!

I will admit that I have considered trying to find someone who will custom-make me shorter versions of the cheek pieces, if for no other reason than it will give me more flexibility with bit sizes. For example, while I feel the small eggbutt rings are fitting ok, I doubt I could get a baucher high enough in his mouth right now.

The bridle is admittedly not my taste, looks-wise, especially since I’m partial to my horse’s VERY OMG HANDSOME face, but he really is going very well in this get up otherwise, so I’d like to see if I can fix what’s broken with it so to speak.