Can a noseband or flash help with bit stability?

[HereComesZach]

My trainer and I are having a bit of a debate, and I’m wondering what other people think?

I bought a horse from her, so we both are familiar with him. He’s an OTTB, and while dressage is not our main sport, we are working on first level at the moment. Like a lot of OTTBs, he is fussy with his mouth. My trainer liked to ride him with a flash.

I have him going in a Stubben Freedom bridle, and a Neue Schule eggbutt lozenge bit. He is usually fussy/resistant at the start of most rides, and then after a long warm up that focuses on flexion, lateral work, suppling, etc, he will end with 20 - 30 minutes with a nice, quiet mouth, as long as my hands don’t get tense.

My trainer wants me to put a flash on him, to alleviate his mouth fussiness at the beginning of our rides. Personally, I’ve never really used a flash on any horse I’ve owned, and have always just worked through those sorts of issues the ‘long’ way. I’ve personally never felt compelled to artificially close a horse’s mouth; and I’m also hesitant to take away his only method of feedback about my hands.

My only point of concession so far on this is that I recall Micklem claiming their bridle helped keep the bit ‘stable’ in a horse’s mouth. I do often wonder if having that extra bit of leather helping ‘suspend’ the ends of a bit at a certain point might help some of these more sensitive-mouthed horses? There are quite a few anatomical bridles out there now with nosebands that act as combination regular and dropped nosebands.

Does that sound like a marketing ploy? Or does anyone have any thoughts or experience with a noseband/flash of some sort helping stabilize the bit?

[netg]

My philosophy is the horse should be comfortable with the bit when the reins are slack. My TB wants the bit lifted into the corners of his mouth, and does not want pieces rattling in his mouth. Back when I used a flash noseband, he would literally open his mouth and make a gagging motion with his mouth until the flash was on - loosely, but lifting to change the angle of the bit in his mouth. We went to a drop, and he is far happier with that. However, the bigger deal was finding the bit which naturally sat as he wanted in his mouth. He has one of the soft synthetic mullen mouth type bits, and just loves it - it’s super comfortable to him, soft enough to bend around his tongue, etc. But his problem was always pre-contact, not once we had contact, which was what told me to look for something different. You sound as if you’re doing the right things riding, but that doesn’t mean there’s not a more comfortable option for him.

[HereComesZach]

@netg Yes, I’m with you- generally my go-to is to try different bits first, and then keep trying to figure out what type of contact they prefer. He’s newer to me, this is the 2nd bridle and 3rd bit that I’ve tried, and I’m generally liking this combo so far.

Usually assessing things in that order works out for me, but at my trainer’s insistence, I am starting to wonder if this particular horse would appreciate the ‘lift’ on the bit that you’ve described.

[Dbliron]

As a general rule I hate flash nosebands, but I have occasionally had horses in training who were very clearly much happier with the combination of an eggbut bit and a flash noseband than with any other combination. These horses were all very light in the bridle, and I came to the conclusion with them that what they could not tolerate was any extraneous movement of the bit, so loose ring snaffles and cavessons did not create enough bit stability. Interestingly, the last of these horses went very well in the double bridle - I used a Neue Schule Verbindend bradoon and the NS WB curb, and I think the combinations of those two bit angles plus the stability of the curb kept her comfortable.

[piedmontfields]

Like others, I would think of bit changes rather than a flash. My mare hates a french link (too much movement) and is happier in a single jointed or single piece bit.

FWIW, I have heard Miklem bridles described as way too much poll pressure for some horses (this was by an FEI/GP trainer who also does bit clinics).

[endlessclimb]

Short answer - yes, they can.

[Kyrabee]

I think some of the newer bridle designs have less pressure spots. Do they stabilize the bit? Not sure.

My mare easily gets hers fat cheeks pinched. I ended up with no noseband as the traditional ones just pushed her fat cheeks into her teeth. A loose noseband was just flapping around so I took it off. A flash made no difference in her mouthiness. I did try a drop but it is hard to get one that adjusts correctly for the more petite head. She also was happiest (or should I say least annoyed) with a Mullen mouth bit. Last spring, I tried a Neue Schule Turtle Tactio bit. She was softer but still got a bit of rubbing/pinching. I got a PS of Sweden bridle and she has been lovely. She is much lighter but yet goes to the bit. No leaning, bearing down and she has been straighter overall. No pinching of her cheeks. The noseband on the bridle is NOT tight. The lower part, I don’t even unbuckle to remove the bridle. So, for my horse, the newer design that gets the straps off the teeth area definitely has helped. Whether the bit is more stabile or the bridle is just not annoying her tender areas, I do not know.

I don’t feel a regular flash stabilizes anything…I think it just helps strap the mouth shut.

Just my experience with a fussy mouth.

Susan

[GramV]

After decades of thinking you can close a horse’s mouth and help them be quieter in the mouth, I am 100% opposite now. I always have very loose nosebands and hate the idea of a flash. You can’t get a horse to give, accept, be quiet, or be on the bridle by closing their mouth forcefully. It all comes with time and training.

I think you are right in your thinking.

[mjhco]

I have had a series of horses that are very sensitive about what is on their head and in their mouth. A flash or a miklem or a figure eight loosely adjusted helps to stabilize the bit so the weight of the reins moving around (as in on the buckle) does not cause too much movement of the bit. One horse preferred a full check snaffle with keepers. That kept the movement of the reins to something tolerable.

[elleng0728]

My gelding goes well in a drop noseband and it does seem to keep the bit stable in his mouth. His bridle is a Dyon Drop Noseband snaffle bridle and his bit is a Neue Schule Demi Anky

[mydogs]

I would be inclined to figure out why the horse is fussy in the mouth in the beginning.

I don’t think it would hurt to try a flash but obviously don’t crank it tight. If it doesn’t help, well, you gave it a try and can tell your trainer it doesn’t work for your horse. Then, it is one more piece of information that you have about your horse’s preference.

[beau159]

@HereComesZach

Personally, I’ve never really used a flash on any horse I’ve owned, and have always just worked through those sorts of issues the ‘long’ way. I’ve personally never felt compelled to artificially close a horse’s mouth; and I’m also hesitant to take away his only method of feedback about my hands.

I’m with you. No flash.

@HereComesZach

My only point of concession so far on this is that I recall Micklem claiming their bridle helped keep the bit ‘stable’ in a horse’s mouth.

So what exactly is Micklem say they are “making stable”? What is unstable about the bit?

Sounds like a ploy to me.

[emipou]

@mydogs

I would be inclined to figure out why the horse is fussy in the mouth in the beginning.

I don’t think it would hurt to try a flash but obviously don’t crank it tight. If it doesn’t help, well, you gave it a try and can tell your trainer it doesn’t work for your horse. Then, it is one more piece of information that you have about your horse’s preference.

^^^ that sounds reasonable to me.

It could be something completely unrelated to the mouth too. Hard to say.

[NoSuchPerson]

My very fussy mouth, bit-hating mule likes his bit to remain very still in his mouth. He has shown a definite preference for a non-jointed bit and a Micklem bridle. I do not believe that the Micklem is just marketing/hype. I have seen a definite improvement since switching. I do think having the short bit hangers attached to the fixed noseband does help keep the bit still.

I will say, however, that fitting a Micklem properly can be difficult. I ended up putting together a Frankenstein Micklem out of pieces of a regular size and an oversize.

[SonnysMom]

@beau159

I’m with you. No flash.

So what exactly is Micklem say they are “making stable”? What is unstable about their bit design?

Sounds like a ploy to me. (Or maybe they should design their bit more stable. :D:) )

Micklem is a bridle maker. To my knowledge they don’t make bits. Some horses seem to really like them and others don’t care. There are some anatomical differences that may make a difference to some horses.

OP- Have you tried something like a Baucher bit? I used one of the Myler ones on one of my horses. We eventually were able to move him to a loose ring double jointed bit as he became more educated.

My current OTTB does not like loose ring bits. He prefers an eggbutt. His fussyness manifests itself with head flipping rather than mouthiness.

[tbchick84]

The egg butt probably allows more movement than your horse is comfortable with. In terms of movement allowance, it goes loose ring / egg butt/ D-ring/ Full cheek. Try the same bit in a D-ring or full cheek. If that does not help, yes the Miklem bridles keeps the bit nice and quiet for the green horse. Once you’re past the green stage, it is helpful to transition back out of is since it doesn’t allow for a lot of finesse for more refined communication.

I fail to see how a flash is going to accomplish anything other than creating a tense/nervous horse who suddenly finds himself unable to open his mouth and relax his jaw.

[Posting_Trot]

I had a TB mare who hated a flash. She was always fussy with her mouth and I tried using a flash for at least a year, with various degrees of tightness–she just hated it.

What did she ultimately like? The one bit that made a big difference was a Baucher (actually it was a KK butterfly bit or B-ring, but I believe these are no longer “legal” in the show ring). The theory of the Baucher is that they are a much more stable bit and some horses just really prefer that.

When I put her in a Micklem bridle with the Baucher that made her even quieter in her mouth. YMMV but it may be worth a try.

[Rackonteur]

Was he fussy like this when he was on the track? What was he raced in? What bit and what bridle? What was the weight of his racing bit? Was he raced in a cavesson? Flash?

I’m with you, I don’t like flashes, and I don’t like gadgets to “fix” a problem the horse is having. I’m old, so I would say try going back to the most basic, simplest bit out there, a plain ring snaffle with one joint and see how he does.

Have you tried lunging him in his current setup to see if he is fussy that way? But really, I would go back to the very basic snaffle and see, and then if necessary move on in other directions.

Good luck.

[HereComesZach]

Thanks for your responses, this thread is been really interesting to me! I wanted to clarify a few points:

• He has only been off the track for about two years
• He has been thoroughly checked out by vet/dentist/chiropractor and massage specialist. I don't believe this is pain related, but hold-over behavior from the track
• From my perspective, I do not consider a horse a couple of years off the track needing to warm up into contact a 'problem.' (this is likely the crux of the debate between my trainer and I.) I believe that since he works out of it each time, he is learning how to handle contact without a flash. She thinks he's being evasive during warm up.
• Once he's warmed up I can almost always get him working into a nice, steady, first-level-appropriate contact. He's actually quite a bit more 'solid feeling' on the bit than my last TB, so I'm trying to adjust.
• I'm not sure what he raced in, I'm just assuming he has some oral fixations that were exacerbated by a tongue tie or a chain in the mouth to lead, etc. He's just generally mouthy anyway.
• I kind of like his current set up, because he's going the best he has for me so far in it. That being said, I'm not against trying other bits. My next step would possibly be a baucher?

I was just looking at some of the trends in anatomical bridles - the micklem was one example - but also the schockemohle equitus alpha; or the PSoS Nirak as well. A lot of bridles seem geared towards having a strap under the bit nowadays. It hasn't been my go-to, but I'm open to trying anything that my horse might prefer. That lead to my current question of wondering if he might not prefer the bridle to do some of the work of 'carrying' the bit, so to speak?

[SillyHorse]

@Kyrabee

I don’t feel a regular flash stabilizes anything…I think it just helps strap the mouth shut.

The purpose of a properly fitted flash is to stabilize the bit. If it is so tight that it is strapping the mouth shut it’s being used improperly and, IMO, cruelly.