Can I afford to move to San Francisco?

[jenm]

[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7896436]
When I was a kid we’d trail ride from Los Altos Hills to Rosatti’s (Alpine Inn)! We made a day of it and it was great fun![/QUOTE]

PP, where did you live when you were a kid? I also grew up in Los Altos Hills and lived in the area between Foothill College and Hidden Villa, which is where I did all of my “fun” riding. For lessons and showing, I was at a barn in Portola Valley and we used to trail ride down to Rosatti’s! Thankfully, it is one of the few Peninsula landmarks that hasn’t changed since the good 'ole days. It’s pretty much in between where I board my mare at The Horsepark and my mule at Portola Pastures, so it’s always “on my way” no matter which direction I’m headed.

[mvp]

[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7896436]
When I was a kid we’d trail ride from Los Altos Hills to Rosatti’s (Alpine Inn)! We made a day of it and it was great fun![/QUOTE]

It was never The Alpine Inn. It might have been Rosotti’s but in my family, it was called Zott’s. My parents were Standordites and Zott’s was a favorite bar.

You all will notice that bars like Zott’s and the Dutch Goose (The Goose) are a bit off campus. That’s because Jane Stanford dictated that there would be no bars built within a mile of campus.

[zippyrider]

I lived in the Connecticut suburbs of New York City, which is a comparably expensive place to live. I lived in a coastal town with a very well regarded school district and a 45-minute train ride into the city, so the housing was quite a bit more expensive than some of the neighboring towns. Since you don’t have kids (and if you hate commutes like I do), you might want to look at some closer-in towns with less regarded school districts. It may affect resale value, but school districts can really drive home prices. A ten-minute drive from my house across the town line could save you many hundreds of thousands of dollars without really sacrificing quality of life.

[Appsolute]

@mvp;7896004

Appsolute… are you saying that people still hack to Roberts?

YES! You can still ride to Roberts. The number of cyclist in the area now is alarming - but you can still hitch your horse up in the back of the parking lot

The town trail system is still there as well - just even harder to get keys now.

“CTETA” is now the Woodside Horse Park - and yearly dues are now a thousand bucks - rather than the $350 I paid back in the 90’s. But now has a covered, more arenas, better footing etc. Basically the whole area has gotten more and more expensive, and many of the local facilities have upped their game - lots of nice boarding options.

And talking about back roads - another reason I really recommend the peninsula - very short drive you are in breath taking redwoods, the mountains are laced with tiny one lane roads - and its a short drive to the San Mateo county coast.

Interesting to see who is from, and still in the bay! I grew up in La Honda (tiny town in the Santa Cruz mountains above Woodside) - rode in Woodside Pony Club growing up, and kept my horse down there / went to school there.

[Appsolute]

[QUOTE=zippyrider;7897538]
I lived in the Connecticut suburbs of New York City, which is a comparably expensive place to live. I lived in a coastal town with a very well regarded school district and a 45-minute train ride into the city, so the housing was quite a bit more expensive than some of the neighboring towns. Since you don’t have kids (and if you hate commutes like I do), you might want to look at some closer-in towns with less regarded school districts. It may affect resale value, but school districts can really drive home prices. A ten-minute drive from my house across the town line could save you many hundreds of thousands of dollars without really sacrificing quality of life.[/QUOTE]

This isn’t so true of the bay area. The good school districts are near the more expensive neighborhoods yes - but the bad school districts are in the congested and crime riddled areas. Not ideal places to live, for more reasons than just the school district.

[poltroon]

[QUOTE=Appsolute;7897777]
This isn’t so true of the bay area. The good school districts are near the more expensive neighborhoods yes - but the bad school districts are in the congested and crime riddled areas. Not ideal places to live, for more reasons than just the school district.[/QUOTE]

I think there are more such places out there than you are imagining, especially considering some of the hypercompetitive silicon valley types. And a lot of what is perceived as “bad” is overlooking some very nice schools that also happen to have lower income kids.

[Appsolute]

The person above was suggesting to look to neighborhoods that do not have very good school districts for more affordable housing.

I live in a crummy school district - and break in are rampant in my neighborhood.

While Campbell, Sunnyvale, Mountain View, Los Gatos - have better school districts, and lower crime rates (then down town San Jose). For the peninsula and south bay at least - generally if the school district sucks, its not the loveliest place to live (but is cheaper).

Not a knock against the kids or the schools. Talking about housing prices in what is perceived as less desirable school districts. I am saying less desirable school districts tend to be in less desirable areas - for more reasons than the school.

[zippyrider]

[QUOTE=Appsolute;7897777]
This isn’t so true of the bay area. The good school districts are near the more expensive neighborhoods yes - but the bad school districts are in the congested and crime riddled areas. Not ideal places to live, for more reasons than just the school district.[/QUOTE]

Good point. Not really the case where I lived, but sounds like the case in the Bay Area. I wasn’t suggesting bad school districts…more like second-tier.

[KateKat]

[QUOTE=Appsolute;7897843]
The person above was suggesting to look to neighborhoods that do not have very good school districts for more affordable housing.

I live in a crummy school district - and break in are rampant in my neighborhood.

While Campbell, Sunnyvale, Mountain View, Los Gatos - have better school districts, and lower crime rates (then down town San Jose). For the peninsula and south bay at least - generally if the school district sucks, its not the loveliest place to live (but is cheaper).

Not a knock against the kids or the schools. Talking about housing prices in what is perceived as less desirable school districts. I am saying less desirable school districts tend to be in less desirable areas - for more reasons than the school.[/QUOTE]

I didn’t even think the Peninsula had crappy school districts anymore :lol:. Seriously though…when I was growing up Carlmont was called “Crackmont” for a reason and kids from East PA were being bused in. But last I heard from my teacher friend in the district its now one of the top schools (???). Funny how a lot of money can change things in just a few years.

Also I had to LOL at the comment about the friendliness of Californians. I never noticed it, but this past fall my DH was really hesitant about going back to Boston because he just could not get over how unfriendly he felt east coasters are! Personally I haven’t experienced it but he definitely thinks the west coast is the best coast when it comes to people being friendly. I say its because of our weather…how can you be unfriendly when its a gorgeous 60 degree, sunny day in December?

[ladyrider]

[QUOTE=KateKat;7898017]

Also I had to LOL at the comment about the friendliness of Californians. [/QUOTE]

Me too! I also had to LOL at the “At your age, I wouldn’t do it” comment. Not sure if the poster was implying the OP is too young… or too old? Since when did 45 become an age to not try new life adventures?

[cgray0983]

I lived on the Peninsula for several years with horses, commuting to SF and also lived in SF commuting to the Peninsula to ride.

My friend owns a lovely retirement facility in Napa: https://www.facebook.com/RockridgeNapa Her website is currently under construction.

Another friend has property up in La Honda (above Woodside) where I used to have one of my retired horses: http://williamsranchboarding.com/ Its pretty hilly, so not ideal for horses that have to be on flat pasture.

I ride jumpers so not very familiar with the event barns in the area, however, have had some friends ride at Three Bay Farms in Woodside which is located at CTETA or the “Woodside Horse Park” with access to the CC course there.

My husband (a Bay Area native) and I bought a 10 acre farm in Gilroy, south of San Jose last year to offset the cost of having three retired horses boarded and the rising rents in Portola Valley where we were living. We now have a total of 8 (OMG) and only have two in full training up in Portola Valley. We have the luxury of working from home as we are both a web engineer and designer respectively. I am sad that I don’t live as close to SF as I used to, but still love living in the area. We don’e have kids, yet, and know that we will probably have to send them to private or charter schools. Clearly our horses are our prime concern! I won’t lie, as soon as we don’t need to live in the area for work anymore, we will probably move back to my native East Coast, but that is purely for our growing herd.

[CA_ASB]

As an aside, I boarded my horse in Portola about 15 years ago - and it was $1K / month for board alone then …

[Appsolute]

Yep - boarding on the peninsula is not cheap. Some of the places require full training as well, and its easy to start paying close to 2K a month…

I started boarding at the Portola Valley Training Center in 1994, it was $350 a month back then. Now I believe is closer to $1,200… my how things change.

But if the OP is raking in $400K a year - should still be doable.

[cgray0983]

[QUOTE=Appsolute;7898434]
Yep - boarding on the peninsula is not cheap. Some of the places require full training as well, and its easy to start paying close to 2K a month…

I started boarding at the Portola Valley Training Center in 1994, it was $350 a month back then. Now I believe is closer to $1,200… my how things change.

But if the OP is raking in $400K a year - should still be doable.[/QUOTE]

Pretty much… it’s $1100 now.

Most of the training facilities are between $800 and $1200/mo, and then you tack on training on top of that. Very different from the East Coast and Midwest where I found a lot more trainers owned the properties they were teaching out of. I was disheartened when I first moved to the area nearly 10 years ago and found it hard to find a place where I could board with full boarding services (blanketing, turnout, feeding, etc). I found I could either board and pay full training OR I could rent a mare motel stall or space in a pasture and had to do my own feedings and blanketing. It took a while for me to realize that I had to either sacrifice my savings or my time when it came to boarding. But as many of us have stated, sounds like it would be ideal to have your retirees at a retirement facility (you could perhaps ask about the donkeys and other animals) and your riding horse in full training. On off hours the commute to the Woodside/PV area isn’t so bad. I just picked up one of my mares from a lessee yesterday from Walnut Creek, which is quite lovely and there are lots of trails out near North Peak Equestrian.

[Pocket_Pony]

jenm, I grew up in Los Altos, but rode at Fremont Hills and we’d take off on all sorts of adventures from there. When I started riding again after college I was at Springdown where the lesson horses were good. Got my own horse, went to Portola Farms and was there for a good few years, then moved to Rancho Viejo and then left and got my own place.

Yup, we call Rosatti’s Zotts, too, but I think the sign on the front says Alpine Inn, if I’m not mistaken? Haven’t been there for years.

When I was a kid I used to park my butt at Tiedown when it was a huge store in Los Altos that took up probably four times the space it does now (is it even still there? Last time I was there was years ago and it was quite small, just one store size) - it was double-deep and went from the street to the back alley/parking lot area and had english and western tack. I would go and sit in all the saddles and look at clothes and bridles and bits and whatever while my mom was shopping or running errands. Sigh. The good old days. My mom would drop me off at FH in the mornings and I’d be there all day and she’d pick me up in the afternoon and I just couldn’t get enough of it.

Anyway, OP, I hope you find what you’re looking for, in the Bay Area or otherwise. It is a lovely place, just way too crowded for my taste these days.

[vali]

I live in the Bay Area and have both boarded and kept horses for over twenty years, and it should be doable on your budget if you are flexible. We currently live in Lafayette and board in the Briones/Martinez area, and I also own a horse property in the Oakland hills that we are currently renting out. We moved to Lafayette for the schools, but may move back to Oakland at some point since I actually prefer it there. I have commuted for years to San Francisco and the Bart ride from Lafayette or Walnut creek is about 30-35 minutes, and total commute time to downtown San Francisco is about an hour from our place. We are actually zoned for horses where we live now, but it’s fairly hilly on our lot, although several of my neighbors have horses and arenas. Lafayette/Orinda are expensive to buy because of better schools, but the adjacent communities of Briones/Martinez and Concord/Clayton are still places where you can find a small horse property for under a million if you search, and board can range from $400-750 depending on amenities. Castro Valley is also worth checking out. Apartment rentals in Lafayette or Walnut Creek are much cheaper than San Francisco. My horses are 20 minutes from our house, and I don’t mind the Bart ride. All are quite safe neighborhoods.

We had our Oakland hills property on the market last year for under a million (not for sale now), and it had an all-weather 70x135 sand/rubber arena, 2500 square foot renovated Spanish style house, 3 stall barn on a flat acre, and trail access. Not quite as safe as Lafayette, but we didn’t have problems beyond the occasional car break-in (very different than the inner city parts of Oakland). I have also lived and boarded in Palo Alto/Portola Valley, and it’s also very nice, but prices are very high there now, although occasionally you can get boarding deals in private backyard barns. Woodside horse park is great and I go over there regularly for events/shows.

For boarding options in East Bay Hossmoor is on the pricier end at $575-750, but has lovely pasture and big turnouts combined with very nice arenas/trails. I board at a place in Briones that is usually full but is about $435 for a matted stall with small run, including daily turnout into larger dirt paddocks, and a full size indoor and trail access. They feed generous quantities of grass or alfalfa hay twice daily and the horses are all pretty happy there. Free trailer parking and nice owners, and they even let our Pony Club meet there for free. For retirees and youngsters, I like Lone Tree in Waterford, which has irrigated pasture on 100 acres, divided by age/gender. I pay $255 for pasture board for my yearling there with safe fencing and a huge area of irrigated pasture with other yearlings, and they have excellent retiree care. They also have stall board and and indoor, as well as a cross country course, and regularly host clinics/hunter paces.

Advantages to living here: Good job opportunities, great food/cultural activities, liberal climate (advantage for us at least). Usually fabulous weather, active eventing/dressage and h/j scene, and terrific open space trail opportunities, especially if you have a trailer. Obviously housing is more expensive, but I’m often surprised that board is actually cheaper than many other areas like the East Coast, Chicago, or even the Seattle area. As a transplant to California I’ve found people are pretty friendly. I event at Prelim and have two daughters who do Pony Club, but I also know a lot of people throughout the local horse community and it’s not hard to find trail riding buddies if that’s your thing. Education is the weakest area, but hey, you don’t have kids so you don’t have to worry about that.

[DaniW]

No, you can’t consider it. Not if you insist on buying something.Not right now. You can consider it if you rent.

However, foreclosure situations come up that may be your answer, especially in the east bay. But most east bay properties that allow horses are going to cost over 1 million and you have to come up with at least 20% if not more. The one break you have is that property taxes are capped at 2% for the first million but after that they are uncapped so if the value takes off you may not be able to afford the taxes if you barely afforded the property in the first place.

You can probably rent the same property for less than the cost of a monthly payment and even though that’s “throwing money down the drain” you don’t have a noose around your neck and you don’t have to come up with the initial payment.

You could also rent an apartment in the city for $3500 , board one horse in walnut creek for $600 (BART and bike combo ) or board one horse in Marin for $1000 ( car or bike) or board one horse on the peninsula (most likely car only option bart or caltrain and bike - only if you are a strong bike rider) for anywhere from $350 -$800 . Then you can retire the other three and the donkeys can be in retirement boarding in Davis, east bay or in pasture on the peninsula for $250-$350 ea.

There are many more expensive options but these are the cheapest. I admit I am on the peninsula so my numbers for the other areas may actually be overly rosy. Apartment prices are going up dramatically but so are more apartments so I think things will settle out a little bit.

Anyway, there is nothing better than living here so if you want to do it you can find a way , just not if you insist on the same style of living. And if you do move here, respect the pedestrians in the crosswalk because we fight back

[poltroon]

[QUOTE=DaniW;7903800]
The one break you have is that property taxes are capped at 2% for the first million but after that they are uncapped so if the value takes off you may not be able to afford the taxes if you barely afforded the property in the first place.[/QUOTE]

This is incorrect. Your property taxes in California will be 1% of the sales price of your home. Then each year, it will rise by 2%. It could be less if your property is not appreciating, but it cannot exceed the 2% per year since it was last sold.

[alternaria]

you guys are just the best!

I think all of the information is super helpful! It’s clear that while it may not work for us (maybe because of my age - huh??), there’s a decent chance that it could work. Coupled with the great prospects of the job (swoon!!), we have decided to go ahead and consider the possibility rather than dismissing it out of hand.

The peninsula looks really great, but I think we would be better off in the east bay or even on the north side. Those areas look a lot cheaper (relatively, obviously!) and more goat / chicken friendly. Looks like most of those towns on the peninsula don’t allow goats (snobs!).

And retirement board for the oldies - the place vali mentioned sounds great and so reasonably priced! Fortunately, they aren’t retired because they are infirm or have special needs or issues but rather that they are well, to be frank they just kind of aren’t good (or even competent) at anything! Now, one of the donkeys is quite old and his teeth reflect it so he needs to be somewhere where he can get hands on care. And he doesn’t like the cold but does have a full wardrobe of blankies to ensure his every comfort, so he might need a different place with more individual attention. But that is actually sounding pretty doable just a bit out of town. I wish i could say he’d rather be with me but really, he won’t care as long as he has his girl (old mare), he’s warm and has a belly full of mush.

Sounds like the options for boarding my riding horse are pretty reasonable on the east bay - couldn’t get a sense of the options north of the city, but I have to say the portola valley / woodside ones just seem a little high end (both attitude and price!) for me.

Thanks again! let’s hope the job is as great as it seems!

[poltroon]

I think you will find lots of nice retirement options in the north bay or the central valley areas, ranging from big pastures with grass turnout and little attention to places that will be full of hands on daily care.

Enjoy! I hope the job is everything you wish for and more.