Can I get new APHA papers?

Ok this might be kind of confusing but I’ll try to explain the best I can.

My horses papers got left at my sister in laws brothers house and they got into a huge fight (lawyers cops etc) to put it shortly my sister in laws nephew was working for her husband’s company and embezzled huge sums of money from the company, her brother and his wife knew all about it and did nothing but make things worse.

They won’t give up anything willingly my sister in law had to take a cop out to her brothers just to get some tack they left over there.

But anyway my sister in law was the legal owner of my horse until she signed over ownership of her to me. They never transferred ownership on her papers and I’m not sure if the previous owner did or not.

I’m wondering if I can get new papers because there is no way I can get them, that I can think of.

That is a question only the APHA can answer, after they check to see who is the owner on record.

Then they can tell you how to proceed so you can get a new registration certificate, if possible.

The AQHA has similar requirements as the APHA.

Once I bought a horse and the seller “had forgotten” the papers when he delivered the horse.
I think he lost them, but after months not getting them, I checked with the AQHA.
He was not the owner, bought him from a friend and never transferred him.
They sent him certified letters he didn’t respond to.
They sent the owner of record a certified letter he answered by sending the signed form back.

After so long, the AQHA sent me an application to re-register the horse to fill out, requested four pictures, one from each side of the horse and issued me a new registration certificate.

It took about 8-9 months.
The seller was banned from the association.

Maybe you can get something like that process started by calling the APHA and see what they tell you?

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So - your SIL sold you your horse, but doesn’t have the papers because they were at her brothers house?

The easiest thing to do would be to reach out to her brother and simply ask for the papers.

Now, if there’s another layer of complexity here - like the horse was in the brother’s name and not the SIL, then you have an issue if the horse wasn’t legally her’s to sell.

What’s the horses name? I may be able to look up the registered owner for you.

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It’s possible, but contact APHA for the specific steps. My cousin had to do that when the seller never gave her the registration papers. She did have a written and signed bill of sale. She had to send a certified letter to the seller, fill out an affidavit and get it notarized, and submit everything to APHA.

Ownership and registration are separate things, unlike with cars.

The horse is sold with a bill of sale, and transferring the papers happens after that.

Many registered horses are legally sold sometimes several times but the papers don’t get passed on because there is a fee and paperwork. There have been some threads about how many OTTB are sold to riding homes without the jockey club papers but the sales are totally legal with a bill of sale.

My friend bought an Arabian out of a field and had to do some research to track down his papers and find out whose name they were in.

Contact the breed registry. You will likely need to get the last person who held the papers to sign them over to you.

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I know it sounds weird but I’d rather not go into detail on why they are there because it’s my SILs personal life. The only way I’d be able to get her original papers would be to go my SILs brothers house with law enforcement to get them, and I’d rather not have to do that for horse registration papers. My horse was given to me legally, the ownership papers were signed by my BIL with my husband as a witness, but her name is QTS Dakota Pepper, if anyone can find the last owner that would be great.

If you have a valid bill of sale, you should contact the APHA directly. Don’t get into the family drama. Just say you own the horse, have a bill of sale, but the papers were not transfered and you are unsure who is the last owner named.

I don’t think the original physical registration papers matter that much these days compared to what is on the registry database.

You might find out the registration is still in the name of the breeder and no subsequent owners had them updated.

Honestly I would wait until the drama dies down a bit.

Do you need registration papers in the near future? If not let it wait, because do you really want the APHA contacting your brother in law when the whole family is feuding?

Are you worried your bill of sale isn’t enough and he will try to take the horse back? In that case stirring up trouble over papers is no help.

I would give it 6 months and then contact APHA how to proceed.

Don’t get further pulled into family drama over something like this.

It is a valid bill of sale. I don’t need her papers in the near future either. I am staying out of their family issues I don’t want to be caught up in that craziness. I don’t see why the APHA would contact my BIL he isn’t on the registration papers, neither is my SIL, because they never transferred ownership after they bought her.

She’s in J. Bell’s name. You’ll have to go through the process of getting his signature in order to sign over papers, and technically, each owner since should pay the fees to move the papers through. (Edit to add: I have his full name and address if needed by the OP; however, I don’t want to post it publicly.)

However, since we all know that’s unlikely and expensive, you can also go through the route of a transfer indemnity:
http://apha.com/wp-content/uploads/2…ement_2017.pdf

You have purchased a registered American Paint Horse, but the previous owner has not provided a properly signed transfer for you, or there are one or more transfers of ownership that have have not been recorded. What can you do to get the horse transferred into your ownership at APHA without the properly signed transfers? The Transfer Indemnity Procedure may help.

Your first step is to attempt to contact the previous owner(s) by certified mail. The certified mail receipt will be your proof to APHA that you have attempted to contact the previous owner(s). You should allow 30 days for the post office to deliver your letter, then if you have not received a response, you may forward the items listed below to APHA, “Attention: Registration Services” to begin the Transfer Indemnity process.

This procedure is intended for previous owners that cannot be located or will not respond to requests for signed transfers. If a previous owner responds that he/she is not in agreement for the horse to be transferred, that he/ she refuses to sign a transfer, or that there is a dispute of any kind, APHA will not transfer the horse and this will be considered a civil dispute outside the realm of APHA authority.

APHA will then attempt to contact all previous owners by certified mail. This can become a lengthy procedure, as APHA is obliged to contact each in-between owner that is established, and each owner is given at least 30 days to respond. If APHA does not receive a response from previous owners, the following items are required:

  1. Notarized statement by the buyer providing the actual date of the transfer.
  2. Copies of cancelled checks, bills of sale, or other documentation that would help establish purchase and date of sale.
  3. Copies of attempts by the buyer to contact the seller to obtain the signed transfer(s).
  4. Notarized and signed indemnity agreement with $75 indemnity fee.
  5. A $25 fee for each transfer that is established, and membership fee if necessary.
  6. Current direct right and left side view photographs for identification purposes.
  7. If you do not have the original registration certificate, an Affi davit for Duplicate Certificate by Current Owner form must be completed and notarized, and a $40 fee is required.

The indemnity process allows APHA to update the transfer history without the properly signed transfers based on the documentation that is received and approved by the Registration Review Committee.

To begin this process, send all items to APHA “Attention: Registration Services” at the address above. You should send at least one transfer fee and your membership fee along with the transfer indemnity fee of $75, in order to begin the process. Any remaining transfer(s) or other fees may be billed at a later time. Rush services and fees are not applicable.

Questions on this process may be directed to MemberCare at (817) 222-6423, or e-mail customerservice@apha.com

Thank you so very very much! But it does look like it will take some time hopefully he hasn’t moved!

I bought a 1994 Paint gelding in 2001 with papers. He walked off a trailer from Iowa and the papers were in the name of the breeder. We were at a large dealer, and they transferred the papers to their name and then to mine. The horse was purchased at a sale in Iowa so I tracked down the breeder, who had 60 or so horses. He said he had sold him to “some guy.” APHA procedure did state that you are supposed to find all of the owners but clearly that wasn’t going to happen. He also was still listed as a stallion, so a note was added that said in 2001 he was reported to have been gelded. I left th papers as-is and paid the transfer fees. I don’t recall there being an indemnity process…

The thing about APHA is that the papers have an original color photo of the horse which was submitted when the horse was registered. I would think that you will need to submit photos. That’s the cool thing about Paints - no two look alike. I feel bad about the vet techs who have to sketch them for regular Coggins tests. No two look alike.

Any more Coggins papers can have pictures, so tracings are not as hard to manage.

AQHA has DNA testing now, that may help, if the parents are tested.

I am not sure if APHA does also.

Just out of curiosity does the APHA keep a picture of the horse in it’s registry from when it was originally papered? If so could someone send me a picture of the horse displayed so I can determine if that is my mare, I am willing to go through the process of getting the transfer done but before I put out any cash for it I want to make sure it’s for the same horse. Thank you.

Yes - they’re all digital now. Including registration papers - all printed, no longer taped to the front. :winkgrin:

Based on the face marking, it looks like the one in your avatar. 2004 Black Tobiano mare:
[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:“center”,“data-size”:“full”,“title”:“qtsdp.JPG”,“data-attachmentid”:10306106}[/ATTACH]

qtsdp.JPG

That is definitely her thank you!