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Can only the uber wealthy breed?

Sport Horse Breeding
#1

I have been trying over the last couple years to breed. Not successful. I can only afford to try once a year with my mares (purebred, registered, expensive to purchase) and they’re getting older. At this point, I am realizing I financially am not in a position to pursue it and need to shelf it. I’ve talked to a few people about placing one of my mares (I have 2) and each person I’ve talked to (also breeders) have said they too are getting out of breeding. I talked to a stallion owner who is selling her stallion, another who hasn’t bred anything this year and may not next year. So many breeders say to me, “Breeding is just too difficult these days.”

So … how are people doing it? If you’re breeding quality animals, are you wealthy? If you’re not wealthy, is there a place for folks to breed on a decent income? Is it common to see a breeding season cost $5k to get something pregnant? If so, do you breed every year? What’s your cut off point? I came into this season feeling like I was entering a casino - I’m giving myself X amount and once I meet it, I’m out. If you’re a successful breeder, how did you get your start? I’m not even talking about breeding as a business. I’m talking, you’re a professional in whatever industry and you want to breed to preserve certain lines, promote your breed. Everyone tells me how difficult and heartbreaking breeding is and how its cheaper to buy something on the ground than breed … but doesn’t that mean eventually that only the super rich will breed?

After the regular daily care, regular vet care, regular dental care, etc. of normal horse ownership and then the stud fee, collection costs, shipping costs, vet visits (or clinic stays) at the end of the day, is breeding really just a rich man’s game? TIA for your thoughts.

#2

Not wealthy, only breed for my own use but have had foals off and on since '89. Only have had 2 mares had trouble getting in foal, one was a maiden, took second year. One was older mare and we gave up after one try. My last filly is now a 4 yr old. I have been lucky I know to not have too much tied up into these foals (though I did have placentitis with two mares thankfully both had medical insurance, that is expensive to treat!) to get them on the ground.

I know some just have no luck with the breeding. A friend has had 2 mares and tried several years with no foal.

#3

I think it depends where you live. If you are a farmer you have a lot of potential to be a horse breeder (thats how many breeders in Germany started. You have food stables and pasture already. It also helps if you are knowledgeable, a vet or a good rider, because you can save a lot of money there. If none of you fits on you, I guess yes you need to be extremly wealthy…

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#4

It’s possible to be a small breeder in many parts of the US, but running a medium to large operation can be expensive depending on where you live. Even in areas where land is relatively inexpensive, breeding is still a LOT of work !!!
It’s hard to have a normal life where you can travel wherever and whenever you want because of the horses you have to look after.

#5

So, I think it depends. First of all, it depends on what your definition of wealthy is. Breeding money has to be money that you can afford to lose, and you also need to have some additional money set aside for unexpected vet bills. You also need to have the ability to house and raise the resulting youngsters, which is also a gamble as some of them might not turn out to be as useful to you or as marketable as you had hoped.

Yes, I have had tough years where I had trouble getting mares in foal and spent a lot of $$$. It can happen. The bills add up quickly. The best thing to do is to be super picky about what mares you breed–not just in terms of the quality of the mare (which is super important, because otherwise it just isn’t worth it at all), but also very particular in terms of only using mares with good fertility and a history of producing and raising sturdy, healthy, correct foals. Additionally, I have stopped doing frozen semen breedings (for now). I also avoid stallions with fertility issues (which can be difficult because stallion owners are not always forthcoming). I also don’t like to deal with stallion owners that have limited collection schedules. Ultimately, I try not to be too invested in any one mare or any particular stallion. I also am particular about the vet. You need a vet that is familiar with whatever type of horse and type of breeding you are doing. For example, a vet used to dealing with live cover TB breedings might have to acclimatize to the world of warmbloods and shipped semen, even if they technically have all of the veterinary knowledge to do so.

#6

You don’t have to be uber wealthy, but you do need some disposable income. It depends on your location and style of operation. Having excellent repro vets may be more expensive, but it can also save you money by avoiding extra cycles.

For me, breeding doesn’t cost THAT much more than keeping an extra couple horses. My two mares live out, I trim them myself, they incur normal annual expenses like teeth and vaccinations. One mare is my retired advanced horse, who would be with me forever whether I decided to breed her or not. The other mare is a 2006 TB, earner of $100k, lovely mover and nice producer whom I bought open for $800.

I have my own stallion, and breed live cover, so that saves significantly on cost of semen, collection, shipping, and potential missed cycles. I don’t consider the stallion’s upkeep as an added breeding expense, because he’s here to be my main competition horse. Breeding is his side hobby.

My vet costs to get them in foal was about $900, for both, including all ultrasounds; one was easy, the old mare took 2 tries and multiple lavages. Sadly, I lost one foal, but the other is doing excellent and is exactly what I wanted.

What I spend on the mares and foal could pay for me to show another horse, but it’s extremely rewarding to produce my own youngster from the ground up, seeing the results of my careful planning and hard work. I won’t argue that it’s “cost effective,” but I don’t consider myself abundantly wealthy by any means and I make it work.

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#7

No, you don’t have to be uber wealthy – or even wealthy – but you do have to be informed about the decisions being made in breeding your mare. There are some great repro vets and some who aren’t good at repro but say they are. You have to know what’s going on.

First, did you culture the mare prior to breeding? Doing this at the start of the season can save lots of money. A dirty mare won’t get in foal.

Next, is the stallion fertile? Are you using fresh or frozen? How old is your mare and has she ever carried a foal? Does she cycle regularly? Does she respond to hormones/ drugs to manipulate her cycle?

Where are you located? Someone here may be able to recommend a good vet in your area.

#8

I agree with the thought that you don’t have to be uber wealthy but you do need some disposable income. I also think you need your own place, at least where I live in Calif. Paying board on horses being used for breeding would become prohibitively expensive in a hurry. I also can’t recommend too strongly that you become very knowledgeable about the technical side of breeding. I don’t own my own stallion, and wouldn’t; not my cup of tea. I use very good vets for the breeding cycles, and my field vet is luckily also very good at it, so he is capable of doing a lot of the work. I have been breeding one or two mares a year for a long time, and find it very enjoyable.

I don’t ever spend $5k for a breeding, and I am absolutely positive that the price of a studfee doesn’t equate to success. :wink:

#9

I have my own place, my mares had many foals prior to my purchase, cultured clean. Just have never taken each year. When I see the cost of vet trips/clinics, stallion fee, collections, shipping, etc. it easily winds up being at least $3500 each attempt on a mare. Maybe I am just cheap. When I think of what I’ve spent on everything over the couple years trying … I get sick to my stomach.

What do you all consider a “good” season with a mare? How many times do you try? I’m just curious b/c 2 tries w/ 1 mare would equal around $5k for me. That’s just not something I can afford every year. Its why I’m throwing in the towel. I hear of people trying 3, 4 times in a season on 1 mare and that makes me wonder how much disposal income they have b/c truly, between my husband and I, we make a comfortable living but $10k a season trying 2x with 2 mares … nope.

#10

I spent about $800 in vet costs, which included short cycling the mare. Caught on the first try with excellent repro vet.

We are far from wealthy, bought my mare as a 2yo to save money, she is also my show horse. So I do not count her upkeep.

#11

Sounds like you have a vet issue IMO. Mine have taken on the first try except for 2. Sometimes we did have to flush, we also had to pinch a twin once and the placentitis was a PIA and $$$. Ulcers in one foal and one got bad ill at 4 days old. 2 weeks of IV fluids and antibiotics, now he is my main riding horse. I don’t remember off the top of my head how much each breeding cost, but usually not that much.

I have a very good repro vet nearby that I actually worked for for 4 yrs. I handled stallions and helped with collection and mares for breeding and young stock. I also got to sit behind the mare when we flushed embryos (that was nerve wracking!) catching them.

I have always either used fresh cooled or live cover, never frozen. My biggest regret was to not breed with frozen to Quarterback, I have always loved his foals. Not sure if I will breed again in the future, though I have a lovely Lusitano filly that is absolutely of breeding quality.

#12

If you would have asked me before I read this how much it cost me to “make” my yearling I’m not sure what I would have said, but now that you mention it $5k seems about right. I’m just talking about the cost of actually getting the sperm and egg together. I think I made 3 attempts though, two one year and one the next when she caught. I should have checked the motility of the semen. We checked it the second year and it was 30%. No wonder she didn’t catch before! I was also lucky the second year in that I happened to be based out of Columbia Missouri and Equine Medical Center there is literally a world class equine repro clinic. We didn’t use any of their magic, but I’m pretty confident they knew which end of the syringe to push.
I don’t count the cost of keeping the mare, because that might make it all sound like a poor endeavor, and the second year she was laid up with an injury anyhow so being able to use the uterus was really a bonus.

I bread her because she’s an Irish Draught and we have to keep numbers up if the breed is going to survive to continue contributing to the breeding of high quality sport horses the world over. I wasn’t worried about turning a huge profit if I decided to sell the foal, but I’m confident I would have come out ahead if I had even including mare care and board. As it is I kept my baby and I LOFF HIM! He’s a year old entire colt and he’s such an old soul. He’s the size of a horse already, and magically knows how to lunge. I actually can’t wait to back him. I don’t think I could have bought a horse and had as much confidence in and admiration for it. You can’t buy this kind of barn blind and I’m loving it. Every breeding dollar well spent!

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#13

We have bred a couple of nice Oldenburg babies and had good luck, but it’s still probably cheaper to buy. We had a nice young mare who caught on the first cycle both time, but we deliberately picked stallions with a good fertility record and did fresh cooled. Vet costs were still $1000-$1500, plus stud fee, and then all the costs to bring up the baby. At the time my mom had her own farm so costs were cheaper, there’s no way it makes sense if you have to pay full board.

#14

I have a stallion who turned six years old last month. I bought him as a yearling, had to import him into my own country. I do not have my own place to keep horses so he was raised somewhere else. Then I had him broken in and trained for the stallion inspection. He covered two mares after he was licensed, which I paid for because I gave the breedings away for free. After that I had a few different riders for him that were not the right ones for my horse. Now he is is with the third rider and that seems to work, I decided to wait with offering him for breeding again untill after his sport career. So for five years he has only cost me money and I have not earned anything yet. Time will tell if that will change.
Should have added: I am certainly not very rich, I have a normal job.

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#15

I’ve gotten out but was able to do it on a budget very successfully (my definition of successful). I ended up selling out due to divorce. I’d still be breeding if it weren’t for that. I have always had my own place with a lighted arena. I owned 2-3 mares at a time. I was very picky on bloodlines and proved their worthiness in the show ring. I owned my own stallions which my last one was from a breeding program Tamara in TN and I developed in partnership (third generation from my beloved mare). He has bloodlines that have all but died out with him and thankfully he has produced a few daughters. I started/backed/trained and campaigned all of my breeding stock. I also am a veterinarian who used to be all equine and started in repro plus I grew up on a farm; so, I was not knew to the perils and challenges of breeding. My youngstock was/were not hard to sell nor were those I kept and campaigned once I was forced to sell out. I worked full-time and raised two kids while developing my breeding program. I kept one of my youngstock after selling off everyone else but my one stinker pony who I still own (I then acquired a mustang stallion so I own only 3 horses now). I enjoyed breeding but it was a lot of hard work. In the end I did make money and came out ahead. I lost only one foal at nine days of age and only had one mare slip a foal in early pregnancy. My losses were minimal compared to many others. Now I am hoping to get back into showing the one product of my 4th generation of my breeding program I chose to keep.

#16

Like everyone else, I think it depends. I am new to breeding, and have had really, really crappy luck so far at the expense of my pocket book. I’m on attempt #3 (new horse, new vet, new everything) and we watched one good ovulation then inseminated the next time around on a 47cm follicle and she didn’t ovulate, even with Chorulon. At this point, i’m incredibly grateful that although I only pull a mid 5-figure income, because of where I work my vet work is essentially free with the exception of any drugs they don’t normally stock. If I were having to haul her into the local vet, which is subpar with repro work i’d be sitting at about $2500 plus lots and lots of time off work… Alternatively, I could haul her to the closest ‘decent’ repro vet and leave her there and still be looking at about the same amount and likely be no further ahead.

Last year I spent $3,500 and my mare didn’t even get covered as it had to be LC and she refused to accept the stallion, even after 3 months. It hurt. I can’t afford to just lose $3,500. Heck, I can’t afford to lose $35… but it was a risk I knew I was taking, before I even attempted it. That being said, if Mare #3 doesn’t get bred I might pull a Britney Spears circa 2007…

As time goes on, I truly believe people when they say it’s cheaper to buy a foal. Even a $10,000 foal… it’s cheaper and there is a heck of a lot less hardship involved.

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#17

I’m with everybody else. Not independently wealthy, but I’m in middle America, have a farm, and live down the road from a nationally renowned repro clinic. By the time it’s all said and done, I probably have 10k in a weaned foal (stud fees, vet, mare care (not really money going out the door for mare care, but each horse that I have, reduces incoming board)).

I really enjoy the process, choosing the baby daddy, watching the bellies. We don’t travel much or eat out, so I think of breeding as my entertainment dollars. AND, I’m too cheap to write a 10K check for a weanling, so spreading it out over a year and a half is more palatable.

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#18

If I had your expenses I wouldn’t be able to afford to breed either! Even with shipping/collection my costs are well under $1,000 per mare per attempt.

#19

I think $5,000 break even is probably pretty accurate for me.

Stud fee $1,500
Shipping and collection fee $300
Per breeding cost $600 (updated $735 fresh cooled first cycle 2018 with culture and cytology) not counting preg. check ultrasounds.
Feeding and all mare care for 18 months $1,800
Cost to foal out $400 (you may not have that one)
Cost to travel to inspection (hotel, gas, fees) $500

Obviously each cost may vary, but this is a rough idea. Using a registry that doesn’t require inspection and travel would save a lot of money. Likewise you can save (or spend way more) on stud fee–I bought this year’s stallion at a steep discount from his $1,700 fee, I can’t remember if it was a black Friday deal or what. I also have no problem using frozen, my vet is excellent, and it can save on shipping. I can shop for people selling doses at discount year round.

I will breed a mare one to two times in one season. I do a culture and cytology before breeding and address any infections up front. My mare is under 10 and I am trying to breed her replacement at the moment. She is well-bred and has demonstrated talent under saddle. I don’t breed anything I wouldn’t be happy to keep and campaign myself. I wouldn’t mind finding a top dressage broodmare or filly too. If you can’t bring them along under saddle, you really need to sell as weanlings from a financial standpoint in my opinion. If you are going to breed an older mare, get a biopsy first.

It sounds like you have a vet issue.

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#20

Hi:

So sorry that you are having a frustrating time. II agree with whoever said that you may have a vet problem. It might be worth having an equine repro vet consult to see if there is something correctable. One year , I had an inexperienced vet bring my mare to the clinic with a 25 mm follicle which never ovulated and when I raised this with my regular repro vet, the clinic refunded my clinic costs for the unproductive visit(fortunately they did not waste any semen). So I think the vet exprience is important i breeding. Breeding is not a money saving opportunity, but it is fun and you will learn alot. That being said, like keeping horses in general, having a day job for income to supoort the breeding habit is probably a good idea.

I also breed small scale for myself and am not independently wealthy. I did lose a 4 month old filly one year, which was a heartbreaker. I have 3 super young horses that I am bringing along. i thght long and hard about breeding, because honestly I could have bought a grandprix schoolmaster for what it will cost me to bring 3 youngsters along to that level. But I decided I enjoyed the journey and I also really love the mare I bred. Before I imported her as a schoolmaster, she had 3 high quality youngsters in the Netherlands, all of whom had competed, 2 internationally. And I spoke to her former owner and learned that she got preg easily and delivered easily and was a good mother. She is also very well bred and had shown successfully internationally. While she was an expensive horse, she was by no means something that broke my bank. I discussed with my vet (who also breeds horses) and figured why not try, when I retired her at age 18. I did everything by the book, cultured, cytology, bred by vet at the clinic). I figured it was less expensive to do everything possible to get her preg on the first ry, Everything with horses is a money pit (let’s be real). My first filly was by fresh chilled ( single dose, uncomplicated pregnancy and delivery). Next baby needed some corrective shoeing early on, but things resolved perfectly thanks to my great farrier. Third baby similar. Mare didn’t take last year but she is now 24 and I am forever grateful to her and will be happy to support her as a pasture pet for the rest of her life with unlimited carrots and mints.

Did this save me any money? No. But I know that all of these babies have been handled, vetted, fed and cared for exactly as I would want a young horse to be cared for as a baby. No one ever went too long between farrier visits or got hit with a hose or broom, or had an old injury I wasn’t told about. They all know how to ground tie to have their feet picked by the time they are yearlings. They all lead and trailer load reliably, behave for the vet, farrier and dentist, and TRUST ME in new situations which is huge. When they are sick, I can read it very early. When we took the 4 year old to her first show at Global Dressage it was a windy day and very busy. Other horses were calling and spooking, and bolting. I just kept patting her and talking to her and she stood to get tacked up and mounted. looked at a couple of flapping banners, but never spooked and behaved perfectly in the ring, other than a small weeha buck into a canter transition. I love the confidence and trust that I have from my homebred babies and this seems different from my other horses (I love them all but the homebreds are really different). I agree completely with whoever said that they think of the money spent in breeding as “entertainment dollars”. I’d rather be out in a field or in the ring with my horses that buying jewelery, eating out or going on fancy vacations. I am not trying to kid myself (or my husband) that I am saving money by owning or breeding horses. But this is no more for the independently wealthy than owning a boat or an airplane or a vacation house and I get alot of pleasure from my horses. I have really enjoyed breeding and I have learned alot about horses by breeding. And I do have a day job to support my habit.

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