Can some experienced agility peeps weigh in, please?

[TBFAN]

I’ve been training my 4yo Aussie in agility for the last 2 and a half years. He is my first “real” agility dog, and he loves it. He’s very fast and very smart.
I know that starting out with a fast dog when I’m an inexperienced handler is not ideal, but I’m trying to get better.
We have not trialed yet, although we would probably be find starting out. My dog gets frustrated at my lack of clear, consistent messages, and I want us to be a better team before I take him out.

I’m struggling in my area with finding a good fit in instructors. Having ridden for many years, I know the kind of teaching style that I benefit from, and I’ve been frustrated at what is available out there.

I don’t know all the differences in UKC/AKC/NADAL(?) but I’m wondering if this is partly my issue.
I’ve been at a UKC school for awhile now. Everyone is super friendly (as long as you don’t talk about other schools!). They predominantly have little dogs, who are slow. When they trial, they all seem to do well at tour guiding their dogs around. I would like to do more distance training, but its not popular where I’m at.

I’ve quietly started working with another school that does distance work, but they aren’t teaching much course walking or real handling skills.
There’s so much I don’t know, its daunting.

I signed up for Susan Garrett’s online training, but I can’t keep up with it. There’s so much information there, and I’ve discovered I don’t do well working by myself with just a video.

Suggestions? Are there online support groups for the clueless like me?
My dog is super, but I feel like I’m holding him back in my attempts to learn more.

[bdj]

Hey, OP - there must be an AKC club somewhere near you - AKC Agility Nationals (the NAC) were in Tulsa last year!

Haven’t ever run (or even seen) UKC agility, so I can’t say if that’s why you aren’t getting distance work - it could be that, or it could be that the folks you train with just don’t do much distance work. There are plenty of folks in AKC who don’t do the really wide out distance work that you sometimes see (especially at the upper levels in NADAC - that can get pretty extreme in my experience).

I don’t know the agility scene around Tulsa, but found this site, which might be useful: http://www.reddirtagility.net/links.html
It might be worth it for you to find some local trials that you can go spectate at. Watch as many runs as you can, and keep an eye on the teams before and after their runs. Talk to people and see if you can find out where the teams that appealed to you train. Agility folks are generally pretty nice and (so long as you’re not interrupting their prep time) approachable, and usually pretty happy to tell you where they train, or who they train with. (And we often have time on our hands between runs…) Even though I don’t train with a club or trainer currently, I know all the folks in the local clubs, so I can usually suggest a place where someone new to the sport can get started. You can find a listing of AKC events (by state) here (check the Agility box and click on state you want to search): https://www.apps.akc.org/apps/events/search/index.cfm?action=refresh_index&active_tab_row=3&active_tab_col=4&fixed_tab=13&mobile=N
Also, those Red Dirt folks have a trial coming up Labor Day weekend - http://www.reddirtagility.net/ Don’t know if it’s close enough to check out, but it might be worth a trip?

And fast dogs are tough to learn on, but it’s worth it - I can’t tell you how thankful I am everyday for my super drivey, fast first agility dog. It was hard, learning everything at full speed, but I’m a much better handler for it.

[Sswor]

I have a fast dog and I’m a novice handler too (and also have trouble with distance sending) so I will live vicariously though your thread, OP

[Bluey]

Find the nearest AKC agility trial and go watch and ask questions there.

Someone can direct you to a good club with proper classes.

Right now, this weekend, the Clovis NM and Lubbock TX agility dog clubs have a four day show in Levelland, TX, right West of Lubbock.

There are entries there from states far away and I expect plenty from OK also.

[TBFAN]

Thanks for the suggestions!
I don’t know much about AKC - the school I’m training at currently tends to talk up the UKC and say that the AKC is harder/less friendly. So I know I need to branch out, which probably means driving a ways.

I’ve dabbled in the 3 main schools local to me and while I’m getting something from each, I can’t find the type of instruction that is really overall helping us progress forward. Sometimes the ideas seem to conflict, and as this is new to me, I end up getting frustrated, so my dog gets frustrated.

Does anyone know what the differences are in training and competing between AKC/UKC/NADAC? Is one better than another for fast dogs? I’m not excited about what I saw at the UKC trial where I volunteered, so I’m investigating AKC now.

There is something called NDAL at one of the schools I’m in, and I’ve heard good and bad about their stuff. Anyone done any of their events?

[Bluey]

Our club is AKC licensed, but plenty of our more competitive members go to other shows, mostly NADAC also, some times because they have other types of classes that fit their dogs better.

I didn’t even know UKC has agility, I know the aussie club does and that they are a few other smaller associations further East than we are.

Keep looking around and then decide which group you want to train that fits you best and, once competing, you will find more about all this to go by.

In our region, Dallas and Houston have some top agility clubs, their members come to our shows and are very good.

Performance dog clubs are generally manned by volunteers, so not all are good, it depends who is in charge at any time how good they are.

[Marshfield]

I would go to either a USDAA or AKC trial. Look for a few handlers whose style you like whose dogs are similar to yours. When they’re done running, ask them who they train with. I’m in New England, so it’s much more individual instructors than clubs.

[Horsegal984]

I’m mostly familiar with AKC, we just did our first B-match yesterday. B-matches are like a schooling show for horses, low key, can be unjudged, make up your own route etc. Good way to get your dog used to a trial environment without the added pressure of a competition.

My boy is crazy fast and I’m struggling to stay with him and be able to work him from a distance, we’re working on sending him down lines to increase speed, though at the moment it’s costing us a bit of accuracy.

I don’t know about conformation shows, but I compete in both AKC agility and their sister dock diving group, and have found both to be very welcoming and friendly. People have been quite helpful about answering questions and lending a hand. I’m sure there’s some serious point/title chasers that are a bit uptight, but overall at the performance events most people are there to have a good time with their dogs and watch others have fun as well.

[Bluey]

Yes, USDAA may be the one some here go to, not NADAC?

[Marshfield]

I only said USDAA as I have some familiarity with it, but know nothing of NADAC. I have friends who do both AKC and USDAA and have seen many USDAA videos and know that it definitely caters some to the really fast dogs.

[LauraO]

I know of, and have skimmed the rules for:

AKC - faster times, higher jumps
NADAC - faster times, can jump lower heights for your senior dogs and/or beginner handlers, and can stack the number of inches lower for say -4" veteran dog + -4" specialist for -8", getting my 25" dog down to a 12" jump height.
CPE (canine performance events) - slower times, middle of the road jump heights (can be lower for ‘Enthusiast’ and / or Veteran (dogs). Can’t stack the -inches so the lowest I could run my 25" dog was 16" jumps.

I went to a NADAC trial and a CPE trial so far, both at the very lowest skill level and very lowest jump heights I could get away with.

Both were fun, the people were nice, there were some small differences in obstacles and bigger differences in some of the ‘games’ offered (anything that isn’t a standard course).

I’ve skimmed the rules for UKC, but not gone looking for a trial.

I think ALL of them have the potential to be lots of fun, if you like the folks you’re going with.

[Bicoastal]

What is available in your area?

[QUOTE=TBFAN;8792002]

Does anyone know what the differences are in training and competing between AKC/UKC/NADAC? Is one better than another for fast dogs? I’m not excited about what I saw at the UKC trial where I volunteered, so I’m investigating AKC now.[/QUOTE]

I’ve competed in AKC, NADAC, and USDAA. I’ve watched UKC trials and currently studying UKI and One Mind Dog international stuff.

Honestly what venue you choose is going to come down to practicality: what is available in your area?

What exactly are you struggling with in the current training programs and your team? What are your goals? Titles? Regionals? Nationals? Competing every weekend? Once a month?

For distance, NADAC. For physical challenges with lots of handling, USDAA. For beginner-friendly and extra welcoming, NADAC and UKC. AKC and USDAA can have some looong days, then again so can UKC because they let each run take forever. Probably varies by region, too, based on entry numbers.

I’m happy to expand more if you can narrow the convo for me. Otherwise, my response will be pages long!

[TBFAN]

@Bicoastal;8792729

Honestly what venue you choose is going to come down to practicality: what is available in your area?
What exactly are you struggling with in the current training programs and your team? What are your goals? Titles? Regionals? Nationals? Competing every weekend? Once a month?
For distance, NADAC. For physical challenges with lots of handling, USDAA. For beginner-friendly and extra welcoming, NADAC and UKC. AKC and USDAA can have some looong days, then again so can UKC because they let each run take forever. Probably varies by region, too, based on entry numbers.

That is what I’m struggling with - what seems to be available in my area is not that much fun for us. I have spent 2 years training at a UKC club because everybody is so nice, but we aren’t really getting better. And my dog is frustrated with me because my handling is inconsistent (maybe because I’m trying too much at once?).
So I found a school that does some AKC and, I think, NADAC and this NDAL stuff. While that school seems a bit more suited to my dog, I can’t seem to find the right class there.
I entered the more advanced class after an initial assessment, and they don’t walk any courses, they just send you out in the middle of the ring and expected us to complete a course of 15 jumps. That’s way beyond us right now. Much better if we break it down into sections. We can do about 6 jumps at short distances without my dog getting frustrated and running ahead, barking at me and taking obstacles on his own.
So I dropped to the less advanced class, and that’s a bit better, but still no discussion of walking a course, or where a front cross is appropriate, etc.

There is a third school local to me, but they’re agility area is very small and they actually referred me to the second school now.

I want to know what I don’t know about handling, so I can be better for my dog. He WANTS to do it, but I’m not able to get there correctly and quick enough. I really feel like if I had the right training, a lot of thinks would click for me.

So my options are: drive further away for different training options, or work harder at this Susan Garrett course online and try to do it on my own. Or some combination of the two.

I originally wanted to do disc dog stuff with my boy, but the only club doing that was 90 min away so I opted for agility because it was closer! Guess I’m going to end up driving anyway, as Tulsa isn’t giving us what we need, I think.
I just don’t want to spend another couple of years with a frustrated dog.

I’d like to trial eventually. Maybe go once a month. I imagine once I start, then a title will become important. Right now, I just want to get really solid in my training and handling skills, and can’t seem to find the right place to do that.

Sorry this has become a rant! I do appreciate the suggestions to go watch at a AKC trial and pick out who I like with a similar dog and ask them.

You know, it took me years to get confident showing and training horses, and now I am starting all over from the very beginning with my dog - its daunting!

[bdj]

I have personal experience with AKC and NADAC, and have various friends running USDAA, CPE and UKI - but, really, as other folks have said, what’s popular local to you is likely to have a big impact on what venue you play in. I’ll try to jump back in tomorrow with a little more info if there’s anything left for me to add to the conversation!

[TBFAN]

@LauraO;8792528

I know of, and have skimmed the rules for:

AKC - faster times, higher jumps
NADAC - faster times, can jump lower heights for your senior dogs and/or beginner handlers, and can stack the number of inches lower for say -4" veteran dog + -4" specialist for -8", getting my 25" dog down to a 12" jump height.
CPE (canine performance events) - slower times, middle of the road jump heights (can be lower for ‘Enthusiast’ and / or Veteran (dogs). Can’t stack the -inches so the lowest I could run my 25" dog was 16" jumps.

I went to a NADAC trial and a CPE trial so far, both at the very lowest skill level and very lowest jump heights I could get away with.

Both were fun, the people were nice, there were some small differences in obstacles and bigger differences in some of the ‘games’ offered (anything that isn’t a standard course).

This is helpful, thanks! So much I don’t know, and don’t feel like I’m learning where I’m at.
Does NADAC or USDAA have breed restrictions? Does AKC have a non-purebred agility classes?
My dog is jumping 12" right now, but is approximately 23" so could go higher. We’re keeping the heights low to work on accuracy.

[vxf111]

AKC has an “all American dog” registration that is open to mixed breeds (canine partners). Trials don’t have to allow them to compete but, at least in my area, I have never seen a trial that excluded mixed breed dogs.

For both UKI and AKC if your dog measures 23" you will jump 24" but you can do 20" select/preferred instead if you want. But you can’t jump 12".

[TBFAN]

@LauraO;8792528

I know of, and have skimmed the rules for:

AKC - faster times, higher jumps
NADAC - faster times, can jump lower heights for your senior dogs and/or beginner handlers, and can stack the number of inches lower for say -4" veteran dog + -4" specialist for -8", getting my 25" dog down to a 12" jump height.
CPE (canine performance events) - slower times, middle of the road jump heights (can be lower for ‘Enthusiast’ and / or Veteran (dogs). Can’t stack the -inches so the lowest I could run my 25" dog was 16" jumps.

I went to a NADAC trial and a CPE trial so far, both at the very lowest skill level and very lowest jump heights I could get away with.

Both were fun, the people were nice, there were some small differences in obstacles and bigger differences in some of the ‘games’ offered (anything that isn’t a standard course).

This is helpful, thanks! So much I don’t know, and don’t feel like I’m learning where I’m at.
Does NADAC or USDAA have breed restrictions? Does AKC have a non-purebred agility classes?
My dog is jumping 12" right now, but is approximately 23" so could go higher. We’re keeping the heights low to work on accuracy.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=vxf111;8792894]
AKC has an “all American dog” registration that is open to mixed breeds (canine partners). Trials don’t have to allow them to compete but, at least in my area, I have never seen a trial that excluded mixed breed dogs.

For both UKI and AKC if your dog measures 23" you will jump 24" but you can do 20" select/preferred instead if you want. But you can’t jump 12".[/QUOTE]

I think the reason some can exclude mixes is for breed nationals and such, so they can require only certain dog breed/s show there.

You could also find who is giving seminars where you can get to in a few hours.

Our club has at times put on those and we have participated in seminars other clubs organized with top handlers.

There you get to learn so much more that is applicable to your specific dog.

One more way to learn more.

[Horsegal984]

Does this new club offer handling classes? For example, the place I go offers beginner agility, but also beginner handling classes. We work more on things like crosses, start line stays, wraps, etc in the handling classes. It’s more for the serious competitors while the agility classes are geared a little more towards just people who want to learn the obsticles and have fun.

[TBFAN]

[QUOTE=Horsegal984;8793087]
Does this new club offer handling classes? For example, the place I go offers beginner agility, but also beginner handling classes. We work more on things like crosses, start line stays, wraps, etc in the handling classes. It’s more for the serious competitors while the agility classes are geared a little more towards just people who want to learn the obsticles and have fun.[/QUOTE]

I would love that, but have seen no classes at any place near me that focuses on handling skills. Maybe it’s just this area? It’s also a wasteland for my riding discipline.
The only one I can think of was a boxwork class at one school, but it was a disaster for my dog. Too many jumps too close together and very little demonstrated instruction. We had to drop out, as I was getting more bad habits and stress than any good work.