Schwung, it is indeed unfortunate that you got caught in the mayhem. One reason why your mare had to be reinspected is because ISR never turned over any records to Oldenburg when the two registries split. Since Oldenburg had no record of your mare being inspected, it had to re-inspect her in order to issue registration papers to her foal. And after 10 years, I can easily understand why she didn’t score the same as in her earlier inspection. Not only was she probably showing some wear and tear from age and from her performance career, there were also different inspectors involved - German Oldenburg inspectors can be pretty tough. But congrats on your premium Oldenburg foal. That is something to really be proud of! :yes:
[QUOTE=Hocus Focus;2754659]
I certainly have no complaint with the ISR Old. I can tell you of a personal incident which I had. I was travelling and photographing and had wanted to present my mare at the inspection but there was no time to organize it. The inspector happened to have a stay over after the inspection and I had said to someone that I really wanted to bring my mare so they asked him and he said he wouldn’t mind dropping by the farm to do it considering I had been very much a part of the inspection all day. That was a rare and kind gesture and certainly not required. My little mare made main mare book and I was able to do it on the lawn.
A unique experience. An act of kindness I shall not forget anyday soon.[/QUOTE]
That was very nice of them. I know that the Oldenburg (GOV) inspectors also very frequently make side trips to inspect mares and foals that couldn’t make it to the official inspection site - sometimes driving for hours to go see ONE mare or foal.
Aren’t the “pink” papers issued from Germany? So why wouldn’t the germans have a record?
Probably because those papers are issued as a foal and would not have had mares scores associated with them. Those scores would be held with the ISR/oldna.
[QUOTE=tri;2756422]
Aren’t the “pink” papers issued from Germany? So why wouldn’t the germans have a record?[/QUOTE]
What Carosello said. It was a tough situation for many people. We have seen quite a few of those mares come back into the Oldenburg mare books over the years.
[QUOTE=tri;2756422]
Aren’t the “pink” papers issued from Germany? So why wouldn’t the germans have a record?[/QUOTE]
We are not supposed to talk about this here, but an accurate and very simple answer to this is in the 2000 judgment entered in favor of Old NA… you’d have to look at the Final Order. (you can email me and I’ll explain). Btw, the GOV supported Dr. Ramsauer through two more registries after “the split” so they must have liked what he was doing for the first decade he inspected and branded Oldenburgs here in the USA.
It is quite complicated…
so how does a new breeder to the OLD circle decide which registry to go with?
I want as much prestige and value into my breeding program as possible, yet I want my foals to be branded.
I suppose all I could do is present my horses to both inspections and obtain dual registration, but I am not even sure that is possible and it gets expensive!
Is there any objective source of information that can tell, the “true” story of the split and what not?
On one hand, the GOV’s reputation is immense and they are known for being though (critical) in their inspections which is great.
On the other hand, if the HAN people think the 100-day testing prepared with the ISR/OLD is good enough, well that says a lot too.
How do you decide?
I have access to both inspections; GOV is an 1h30 from here and ISR is 2 hours from here. Not a big difference in terms of logistics either. I know and respect both hosts as well. 
Unfortunately, the Verband had turned a blind eye to N.A. for far too many years, trusting the ISR/ONA executive director and breeding director to look after its affairs here in N.A. Another part of the problem was that the Verband had a change in leadership in 1995, and the new president was focused on dealing with other issues in Germany, including the aftermath of the Grannus scandal. They had no idea there was a new scandal brewing in North America.
Look at it this way – the Verband wanted to run its own show here in N.A. because of various problems with ISR/ONA. Brysch pointed fingers at Ramsauer, Ramsauer pointed fingers at Brysch. The Verband had already had problems with Brysch during his brief employment at the Vechta auction house, so it chose to believe Ramsauer. Ramsauer unfortunately then caused some additional problems here, resulting in more threats of legal action by ISR over the use of the Oldenburg brand. Once the BOD got a handle on what was going on here, Ramsauer was dismissed, the two interim Oldenburg Verband organizations set up in N.A. following the split were disbanded, and the Verband moved forward by setting up The Oldenburg Horse Breeders Society as a direct arm of the Verband and appointing Dr. Evelyn Vollstedt to oversee the Society.
It was a very difficult time for many people with several lawsuits and many threats of lawsuits, but it has been ten years since the Verband washed its hands of ISR/ONA, Brysch, and Ramsauer. The Oldenburg Horse Breeders Society has been growing at a steady pace ever since, and despite the fact that it cannot use the Oldenburg brand, most members are very happy to have authentic Oldenburg papers for their foals, and to know that there is full reciprocity between North America and Germany for approved mares and stallions.
EquusMagnificus, as I just said - many people think it is far more important to have authentic Oldenburg papers issued from the Verband office in Germany, and to know that their horses were inspected by official inspectors appointed by the Verband breeding director, than to have a purloined brand on their foals. It is the papers that make a horse an Oldenburg, not the brand.
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Hmm… Thanks DY. It clears up things a bit…
So now… if the ISR/OLD no longer has the approval of the Verband… how come they can still call themselves OLD and use the brand? Because of the trademark issue?
The ISR/OLD adheres to the standard of the Verband for their inspection of their horses anyways… no?
Are you sure about this? Unless there was a misunderstanding, a stallion owner I spoke to recently said that may not be the case.
The executive director of ISR trademarked the Oldenburg brand when things started to turn sour between ISR/ONA and the Verband. There were several lawsuits over the issue, but the U.S. courts sided with the U.S. corporation (ISR is incorporated in Illinois), so Oldenburg lost rights to its brand here in the U.S.
And no, ISR/ONA does not use the same standards as used by the Verband. It uses a different scoring system, it has different mare books, and different rules for mare book placement. It also scores foals, which is not done in Germany. The Oldenburg Horse Breeders Society uses the EXACT same scoring criteria and methodology as is used in Germany, as well as the same rules for mare book eligibility, and it does not score foals.
I took as she meant that most members of the GOV…
[QUOTE=Zlotych;2757094]
Are you sure about this? Unless there was a misunderstanding, a stallion owner I spoke to recently said that may not be the case.[/QUOTE]
That is what I was told numerous times by the Oldenburg office.
the Grannus scandal. what was this?
the new president was focused on dealing with other issues in Germany, including the aftermath of the Grannus scandal. They had no idea there was a new scandal brewing in North America.
In the light of this… can any GOV experts chime and help me evaluate the pedigree eligibility of my broodmare?
Of course any and all speculation on her eligibility would vary according to her inspection scores but just to get an idea if the best I have is a Pre-Mare book mare… :no:
They discovered that numerous foals that were supposed to be sired by Grannus were in fact sired by other stallions. It caused a huge uproar in Germany, with many threats there of legal action against the stallion owner in question and the Verband. It was the major force behind the drive for parentage verification via bloodtyping or DNA analysis before foal papers are issued.
As a breeder, I’ve found that buyers are much more receptive to foals with GOV papers than those with IRS/ OLD NA papers. They would rather have German papers than a stamp on the butt. Needless to say, we present our babies to the GOV and it has proved to be a profitable decision.
only onegistry allowed?
I attended an inspection by a GOV inspector in which she stated very clearly that , a horse inspected and branded by one registry could not be approved by a 2nd one;:yes::no: We all know of horses approved by more than none registry; so what gives?
[QUOTE=EquusMagnificus;2757136]
In the light of this… can any GOV experts chime and help me evaluate the pedigree eligibility of my broodmare?
Of course any and all speculation on her eligibility would vary according to her inspection scores but just to get an idea if the best I have is a Pre-Mare book mare… :no:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/maritime8[/QUOTE]
Main Mare Book mares must have at least 4 generations of approved stallions in their pedigrees. That means approved WB stallions (approved by a breeding association acknowledged by Oldenburg), or TB or Arabian stallions. They must also hold registration papers from a breeding association acknowledged by Oldenburg. I honestly don’t know if Canadian Sport Horse Association qualifies. Your best bet is to contact Holly Simensen in the Oldenburg office in Florida. You can find contact info at www.oldenburghorse.com.
[QUOTE=Carol Ames;2757154]
I attended an inspection by a GOV inspector in which she stated very clearly that , a horse inspected and branded by one registry could not be approved by a 2nd one;:yes::no: We all know of horses approved by more than none registry; so what gives?[/QUOTE]
Good point, I forgot to address that. Warmblood foals can only hold ONE set of registration papers, so you cannot reigster them with both registries. The Oldenburg office told me that the registry will nullify foal papers if it learns that an Oldenburg registered foal was also registered with another warmblood registry.
