Can we discuss the various thoughts on when and why to carry a hunt whip?

[yellowbritches]

Color me vaguely confused.

A year into my job at a popular consignment shop, I have learned SO MUCH about hunt appointments, turn out, and etiquette. More than I ever knew before. And thanks to a good friend, I’ve been able to put some of that knowledge to work this season, and fingers crossed will be able to use it next year as I slowly introduce my own horse to hunting.

But I am having some angst over the various things I’ve heard or witnessed regarding carrying a hunt whip. My boss is a big believer and advocate that it is 100% proper and correct and really safest if everyone carries a whip, as it is a way to keep the hounds safe and away from your horses feet. She doesn’t advocate doing anything more than just letting the thong hang down when there are hounds about. My friend (an MFH) agrees and I gladly carry my whip when hunting her horse.

However, no one, not even masters, carries whips in at least one local hunt in my area. Just staff. I’ve heard others here, and customers in the shop, talk about how whips are something you must ask permission to carry or that you “earn,” almost like colors. But I know of other hunts where everyone carries a whip, no matter their standing in the hunt.

Now, if I was visiting a hunt on a totally reliable horse, I would not hesitate to follow suit with the local protocol. But my angst is more over when I begin to hunt my horse next season. My biggest concern with him is his reaction to the hounds. While I already have invites to hound walk, and can hack to local kennels to get him used to them, I really want to be able to carry my whip to keep hounds safely away from him. But, if I cap with the local hunt that no one carries whips in (of course, it’s our “home” hunt, as we are square in the territory and can hack to several venues), do I ask for special permission to carry my whip? What’s the protocol?

So, what’s your hunt’s thoughts on whips and who and when and why you can carry them? Is it a staff only thing? Or a whoever wants to, can, thing?

[Ponyclubrocks]

Well I know where you work and I’ve heard her lecture on the subject first hand! (so I know how strongly she feels on the topic!) Every hunt has their own rules however so regardless of her opinion, one needs to follow the rules of the hunt you’re with. My hunt allows anyone with their colors to carry a hunt whip however very few do, only staff for the most part.

[Pinkypony]

I think “a popular consignment shop” is a bit of an understatement.

[gothedistance]

Mrs. Motion isn’t on any hunt staff. That said, you need to politely disregard her old school comments and understand in this day and age your objective shouldn’t be to keep the hounds away from your horse; it should be to keep your horse away from the hounds. You sitting there “wiggling” or dropping that thong could disrupt the hound from its work, causing it to lose focus on finding the game, and instead become concerned with the “threat” - which is exactly what a wiggling or dropped thong is - and thus moving it away and quite possibly putting it off a line or disrupting its desire to return directly the pack/huntsman/staff member. As former staff I’d be more than a little annoyed if I saw someone with a dropped thong to “ward off hounds”. That’s not your job to correct hounds in ANY manner whatsoever - that’s mine.

Instead here’s what you should do: learn to pay attention to where you are in relation to the hounds and practice practice practice turning your horse smartly on the forehand and on the haunches to mitigate any negative contact with the hounds. Your horse’s head should be facing the working hounds, never the hindquarters or the side of the horse. Your place in this sport is as a “spectator”, obediently and immediately following your field master, and keeping out of the way of staff and hounds to the best of your ability. Rely upon your master to put you and the rest of the field where you can enjoy the hound work without disturbing the hounds. Pay attention to any call of “'ware hound(s)”, by immediately moving out of the way and/or turning to face any oncoming or overtaking hound …and leave that hunt whip at home!! And if you do feel like it would complete your attire to carry it, make sure that thong stays firmly coiled in your fist throughout the hunt. You may actually find that carrying it is more trouble/annoyance than it’s worth!

Honestly, the real reason any hunt whip -with a thong - would/should be carried by a field member is in case the huntsman needs to draft that member to be temporarily part of the staff for a moment, or for that day, or a staff’s whip breaks and a replacement is needed immediately. No other reason. Period. And you generally only get asked to help if you are experienced enough to know what to do, and know what your huntsman requires. Hence, former staff will often carry hound whips, in case they find themselves needed to help current staff.

Not meaning to sound preachy. Just think it helps to see this from both sides of the street.

[gypsymare]

I started with a hunt that advocated that it was correct for anyone to carry a whip, but not to use it on hounds without direction. Since I have one, I’ve carried it at several other hunts with no comments made. It’s very useful for picking up dropped items without dismounting. I would NOT dangle it. As mentioned, it will distract the hounds. Your horse needs to learn to deal with the hounds underfoot at the rear of the field first. Back there you are free to engage in a come to Jesus intervention if he decides to kick out at one.

[McGurk]

Exactly. What go the distance said.^^^^^

Carrying a whip with thong and lash attached indicates your’re planning on directing hounds. Doing so withouth being asked by staff or being reasonably qualified to do so is presumptuous, even if the reason is the sensible desire to let down the lash to keep hounds away from your horse’s feet.

If you’re not willing or qualified to be drafted as a whip or other staff (ie, being asked to lead second flight.) you should not carry a whip, IMO and IME.

If you really feel the need to carry one on a green horse, the appropriate thing to do would be ask the master for permission to do so - before picking it up!

If you want a handy tool with which to open gates, catch loose horses and retrieve items from the ground, it is entirely proper to carry the crop without the thong and lash attached - easier to manage too!

[yellowbritches]

Thanks all for the sensible advice and discussion! It can be daunting working for someone who feels so strongly about certain things, particularly when it is things about a sport you’d like to do more of! Fwiw, the horse in question won’t hunt at all if he gives me the impression I won’t be able to trust him. He’s gotten so much more mature and settled in the past year, but I am still unsure he’ll be anything but a pampered show horse!

But it why the difference in whip rules/protocol?

[JSwan]

There is no one right answer. In the end, these are private clubs that operate under one system; and their practices will vary somewhat for a variety of reasons.

Not all foxhunters understand hounds or houndwork. The hound that someone is tempted to crack a whip at may in fact be the strike hound working a line. Or, using a whip (even dropping the lash) on a very shy hound may ruin that hound for life. The huntsman and whippers-in know the hounds best. It’s not the fields job to cheer or rate hounds, or go after errant hounds, or waggle their lash, unless requested to.

There’s nothing wrong with carrying a hunt whip; but there’s also nothing wrong with Masters taking measures to ensure they are used properly and by people they deem competent. Same thing with wire cutters, keys to gates, radios, or any other tool used in the field.

The crop can be a useful tool to help get gates and whatnot - but the truth is some people get awfully eager with that lash. The only people who are ever supposed to be working with the hounds are the staff. (or field members under specific instruction by staff/Masters)

Dangling the lash can be used to keep a hound away from your horse. But frankly, it’s not the hounds responsibility to avoid the horse. It’s our responsibility to not bring a kicker out in the field. Hounds always come first. Always always always.

[FitToBeTied]

My hunt whip stays in the trailer unless I am staffing that particular day or am requested by the huntsman to carry the whip. There is no reason to have a whip unless you are going to be involved with the hounds.

I’ve seen problems with people who are unfamiliar with carrying a whip that have caused problems in the field. Imagine a person going over a coop and having their whip snag between the coop and fence post.

As far as differences between hunts, its just because …

[Beverley]

Oh, I am very much with Mrs. Motion. I did not carry a whip the first year I hunted, because I didn’t own one. However, early in my second season, I was to ride with a whipper-in because the hunt was on our college campus and I knew the territory, and I was loaned a whip (with the very stern don’t you dare lose it warning by its owner the instructor). That Christmas I was gifted with not one, but two whips by a relative and a friend, and I’m still carrying one or the other Every Single Time.

To be sure, if you aren’t comfortable carrying one, don’t. I can’t imagine getting a whip snagged when jumping but I would say if there are coordination issues, by all means don’t carry one! And if you do carry one, you darned well ought to know the rules and NEVER use that whip other than hanging the lash down to deter hounds. However, one of the joys of hunting is that Anything Can Happen, and personally I like to be ready to be helpful. I’ve used my whip many times for its ‘other’ purposes, ponying a horse, fashioning a leash for a hound, getting gates, and, yes, a shining moment, being able to retrieve one of my gloves off the ground with the handle so as not to have to dismount.

Of course, as others have noted, you follow the particular hunt’s rules and desires. I have to admit I don’t bother to ask regarding either my whip or my wire cutters and no one has objected yet, but I have certainly seen the need for a Master to overcome a lack of good judgment among members and guests on all sorts of things.

[Beverley]

As a PS on the hounds, for sure it is true that it is your job to keep your horse away from hounds, but don’t forget that young entry can be pretty clueless, they learn during roading to follow a horse but when a field full of horses is thrown into the mix, it can be confusing for them. That is the chief reason for dangling the lash, to gently communicate ‘no, not this horse dearie, go find your huntsman.’

[KateDB]

Can’t disagree with anything written here.
As MFH visiting a Va hunt a few weeks ago, (one where clearly no one in the field carries a whip), I chose not to carry one, either. However, coming from the George Morris/Jim Wofford school (and having been taught by the same instructor Beverly was taught) I carried a bat. I don’t get on a horse without a bat, you just never know when you’ll need one. I find it frustrating (though I realize it’s a different school of education) when members of the field do not carry a bat if they are not able to or choose not to carry a hound whip. Nothing is worse than being in a situation where a horse needs to be corrected and one does not having an effective tool. I HATE HATE HATE to see folks “punish” their horses for kicking at a hound or horse by ripping at their mouths or wacking the horse on the head with their hands or slapping with the reins. It drives me CRAZY! Carry a bat and take care of the situation properly! (ok, lecture over)

[tangledweb]

[QUOTE=gothedistance;7888411]
in this day and age your objective shouldn’t be to keep the hounds away from your horse; it should be to keep your horse away from the hounds. [/QUOTE]

Sure, but that depends on the type of country you have. We spend a fair bit of time on narrow trails where once the field has stopped you don’t have a lot of room to move. I don’t think I’ve seen a field member cause a problem with a whip, and I’m pretty sure most people carry them for the same reason they carry a sandwich case, to complete the picture, and you can complete the picture by just carrying it coiled.

When the type of member that tends to bring out brand new young horses chooses to dangle, I don’t blame them. If your profession or hobby is training baby hunt horses part of your responsibility is to give the horse a good first few times out. The type of misjudgement that leaves the field is standing across the line should happen very rarely, but much more frequently there are a couple of stray puppies that are picking a circuitous route back to the pack and informing them that one horse needs some space helps everybody have a safe day and fulfil their obligations to the hounds and the horse.

[2foals]

As a young person I hunted with a hunt where very few people carried hunt whips. Recently I have gotten back into hunting with a different hunt (I now live in a different area) and was surprised to see that most riders carry hunt whips. Our master occasionally asks us to drop the thong when the hounds are near to discourage them from getting underfoot of the horses. I 100% agree that it is the riders job to keep their horse away from the hounds, but OTOH sometimes dropping the thong is quicker than (or a useful adjunct to) maneuvering a big horse in a tight spot. I’ve never seen a member of the field use their whip in a distracting or inappropriate manner–though I suppose that could happen.

Frankly, a hunt whip is a very useful thing to have on you in the hunt field. I’ve seen them being used to pony horses home (after a rider had a fall), assist with gates from horseback, as a temporary leash for a hound, and the last time I hunted–unsnag the reins of another horse that had gotten caught in a freak manner on a piece of a metal gate we were riding by. I definitely prefer hunting with one at this point, though I would always follow precisely whatever the master dictated in that regard.

[Good_Old_Sledge]

Most of our subscribers carry a hunt whip. Thanksgiving Hunt this year, we had a hound step into a coyote trap. Several of us on the ground - three with whips to try and get other hounds back and another wrapped the lash around the hound’s muzzle to keep him from biting while we freed him. Without several whips handy, it could have been worse.
Hound is fine, by the way.

[Willesdon]

On a practical point, it is a good idea to get both horse and rider used to a hunt whip before using it for real. The lash is unusual for the horse so a bit of desensitization is a good idea. For the rider, it is bulky handful to carry whip shaft, coiled lash and the rein in one hand so it is worth practicing. Make certain the whip fits your hand. I have small hands and therefore carry a child sized whip with a rattan shaft. I can not handle a mans whip.

[BeastieSlave]

This is very interesting to me! I am new to hunting myself, and only recently took my horse on his first hunt. Our hunt has a few (non-staff) members who carry whips, but they are in the minority. Even if they were in the majority, I can’t imagine carrying a whip (even coiled) until we’ve had more time in the field.

[wateryglen]

Just to add: the length of lash can help too…I don’t “like” to carry one but sometimes do - strictly to help do gates hilltopping. A lash helps you grab a swinging gate and you can pull it towards you and hold it closed w/one hand while doing latch w/the other. Sometimes holding and latching at the same time can be tough when the gates aren’t balanced. So I prefer a shorter, thicker lash. Usually just a one yard, maybe 1 1/4 yard. Stronger for pulling. Since I’m never cracking; don’t need the thinner ends/poppers. Another advantage of a shorter lash is when/if you decide to dangle…it doesn’t reach the ground (or hound). Just running it over/around your horses butt gives the horse something to think about (distraction) rather than the hound/staff/whatever they may be thinking about. Good on green beans IMHO. I use a childs handle sometimes. Just for the hook altho’ I feel a womans handle is easier to carry actually. So a childs plus short lash means no worrying about coiling. Just a loop does it.
As a former fieldmaster for a hilltopping field; I did use a full length lash for many things. Best was to lead horses over jumps when we had to get across in un-gated country. I’d jump over with any who could do so & dismount. For those who didn’t jump; get riders off…reins over head…tie lash end to reins…I’d go to far side of jump and lead horses over jump. The point being I was far enough away to not be jumped on! It works! BTW always thought a good skill to teach any fieldhunter is to jump being led from the ground. And to be ponied.
I’ve used them to pony, as a splint too.
I’d always learned you never hit your horse w/a hunt whip…thoughts? I’ve seen it and sometimes can’t resist a tap.
And have always heard that only members w/colors carry whips and never when guesting. A crop always.
Just my 2 sense!!

[NYfieldhunter]

I think each hunt has it’s own acceptable practice regarding members of the field carrying a hunt whip. In our hunt, it is acceptable to carry one if desired. However, it is not to be used unless you are told to do so by a Master, the Huntsman or staff.

I think if you are worried about your horse’s reaction and behavior around hounds, it would be a good idea to first accept those invitations to walk out with hounds and visit the kennels with him instead of his first introduction being made in the hunt field. It can be daunting to a newbie horse to see 15 1/2 couple eagerly piling out of the trailer, horn blowing, excitement, etc. Also, test his reaction to you carrying a hunt whip. Some horses aren’t eontirely comfortable to the thong dangling at their side. It’s also a good idea to get him used to the sound of a whip being cracked ( maybe with you safely on the ground). I have seen several horses jump a mile when in close hearing distance of a whip being cracked.

[Kodiak]

I really have to agree with “carry a bat/crop”, always. Every time. And spurs if you might need them to get immediate lateral movement. The hunt field is the one place I carry a crop or whip (I’m staff and expected to carry one, regardless) on every, single horse for just the reasons listed above. When your horse needs to move (to make way, sucking back going into a jump) or dares to lift a hoof to horse or hound, you really need to have and use the proper tool for the job.

Remember that hounds always have the right-of-way, even when the trail is narrow and overhung with briers. It’s your job to shift Dobbin into the prickers if necessary to make way for hound or staff.

My home hunt allows members with colors to carry a whip and lash. But, in reality, if you’re not ALSO a known, experienced member with a steady horse who can be called upon in an emergency (ponying a horse or hound, otherwise leave the field to assist staff), you’re going to look very presumptuous and, well, like a poseur who just might do something stupid.