Can we talk about Ration Balancer vs multi-vitamin supplementation

[JB]

“feels appropriate” doesn’t have much bearing on how much horses need The average 1100lb horse in light work needs about 700gm CP, around 30gm lysine, and I forget how much methionine.

Without a forage analysis you don’t know where you are. But you can look at muscle development and see if it seems appropriate for the amount and type of work he’s in. If not, then if you feed only grass/grass hay, it could be a CP deficiency, but might just be an essential AA deficiency, specifically lysine and possibly methionine

If you feed significant alfalfa, it’s unlikely there is a CP or AA deficiency

[theresak]

@JB, correct me if I’m wrong, but if there is excess protein in the diet, the urine will have a strong ammonia smell. So if there’s no smell, it’s unlikely there’s too much ammonia in the diet. And generally, excess protein is not very detrimental to overall health?

[JB]

Correct on all accounts. Protein requires water to be processed, and excess protein means extra water. The excess protein breaks down to ammonia, which then gets peed out.

Excess protein could potentially cause issues, but that’s kind of a lot of protein, way more than most people feed. But it’s a myth that a typical “high protein” diet causes kidney issues. Just don’t feed high protein diets to horses WITH kidney issues.

[fizzyfuzzybuzzy]

I board and don’t have a forage analysis. But it is grass hay, and I supplement with alfalfa pellets and cubes. I also don’t clean his stall, but I can talk to the barn staff and see if his stall is extra stinky. But I’ve not noticed that when I go to take him out to ride. So what’s the scoop (pun intended) with the different protein levels in both complete feeds and ration balancers? What are signs and symptoms of too little protein? Any evidence of excess protein making them hot and/or spooky?

[JB]

Supplementing a grass forage diet with a few pounds of alf pellets and cubes is highly unlikely to be even a lot of protein, much less “too much”, as grass hays don’t tend to be high protein at all (yes, some can, it’s just uncommon)

Not sure what “what’s the scoop with the different protein levels in both complete feeds and ration balancers” is really asking. The more of a thing you feed, the lower its nutrient protein can be, and should be, to provide appropriate nutrients. The less of that thing you feed, the higher.

Normal feeds are fed at minimally 4-6lb for most horses
Ration balancer are fed at minimally 1lb for most horses.

Too little protein - lack of muscle development, poor hair, poor feet

Excess protein
https://feedxl.com/37-protein-can-you-feed-too-much/
https://thehorse.com/14701/the-power-of-protein/

[fizzyfuzzybuzzy]

Thank you @JB - those articles were very interesting and helpful! My question really was why are there 10%-14% complete feeds if too much protein isn’t really an issue? Why do so many people choose/identify their feed mainly by the protein level and not the other factors? Fat and fiber for example? Just tradition?

[JB]

@fizzyfuzzybuzzy

Thank you @JB - those articles were very interesting and helpful! My question really was why are there 10%-14% complete feeds if too much protein isn’t really an issue? Why do so many people choose/identify their feed mainly by the protein level and not the other factors? Fat and fiber for example? Just tradition?

Horses still have absolute CP requirements. Growing and breeding and really hard working horses have higher requirements - that’s why you see typical growth/performance feeds in the 12-14% range, some as high as 16%. Horses eating low protein forage need more from other sources.

Horses eating a lot of alfalfa don’t need to pile on 10lb of a 16% feed even if they could use the calories.

People DO look at fat these days. You often see people refer to “I’m feeding a 12/10 feed” - 12% protein, 10% fat. Some lines of feed are listed strictly as their protein/fat - X brand feed has a 12/10 feed, a 10/10 feed, a 14/6 feed, and so on. Protein/fat.

Fiber? Horses eat hay and grass all day long. If they can’t eat grass/regular hay, they get hay cubes or pellets, and/or get a “complete feed” which is designed to be fed as the sole source of food if necessary. Most people don’t seem to know or care what level of fiber that requires, but it’s in the 18%+ range. But that’s a small % of horses, so most owners don’t care about that number.