Can we talk about Ration Balancer vs multi-vitamin supplementation

[fizzyfuzzybuzzy]

I was talking with one of my barn mates (from a 6 ft distance) about our feeding regimen – she has a mare that is an air fern but has a tendency to be hot (draft/friesian cross) and I have an over reactive Dutch gelding (gelded very late in life 8 years old) that holds weight ok, but definitely needs more calories than her mare. We were talking about the new TC balancer gold that is soy free vs adding a multi-vitamin (HorseTech Fuel is my current favorite, but open to others) to hay cubes/pellets. Both horses are in moderate work, training level stuff about 5 days per week.

Thoughts?

Some of the things circling around my head are about maybe needing to supplement amino acids? I think the big thing that has me pondering is why ration balancer needs about a pound or two per day, but a multi-vitamin is usually 3-4 ounces…

[SonnysMom]

I thought one of the differences is that ration balancers are designed to add protein to the diet which is why soy is the base on so many of them. Soy packs a lot of protein is a small amount. I think there are also ingredients to entice the horse to eat it better than a v/m.

[Scribbler]

When you feed a vitamin mineral supplement you have to supply the mash carrier. It’s a rare horse that will lick up any plain VMS. Typically also as you say the VMS is not high volume enough to include meaningful amounts of amino acids.

A ration balancer provides the VMS plus the carrier pellets. So you need to feed the recommended amount to get the full amount of VMS. If you have an air fern you can just feed the RB pellets and no other bucket feed.

You need to look at the label. My VMS has more VM than any of the locally available ration balancers and none of those RBs includes meaningful amounts of amino acids. I feed the VMS in a mash of beet pulp, alfalfa cubes, whole oats, and flax that I can adjust as needed. Ive never used an amino acid. If a horse appears to need help building muscles we do well with alfalfa.

The cost of my actual mash is negligible, but my VMS is pricey.

If you were going to feed RB plus a larger mash of something it would make more sense to just do VMS plus mash I think.

I have not priced our local RB but I think they are considerably more expensive than bagged feeds fed at 4 to 5 lbs a day.

[fizzyfuzzybuzzy]

@Scribbler

When you feed a vitamin mineral supplement you have to supply the mash carrier. It’s a rare horse that will lick up any plain VMS. Typically also as you say the VMS is not high volume enough to include meaningful amounts of amino acids.

A ration balancer provides the VMS plus the carrier pellets. So you need to feed the recommended amount to get the full amount of VMS. If you have an air fern you can just feed the RB pellets and no other bucket feed.

You need to look at the label. My VMS has more VM than any of the locally available ration balancers and none of those RBs includes meaningful amounts of amino acids. I feed the VMS in a mash of beet pulp, alfalfa cubes, whole oats, and flax that I can adjust as needed. Ive never used an amino acid. If a horse appears to need help building muscles we do well with alfalfa.

The cost of my actual mash is negligible, but my VMS is pricey.

If you were going to feed RB plus a larger mash of something it would make more sense to just do VMS plus mash I think.

I have not priced our local RB but I think they are considerably more expensive than bagged feeds fed at 4 to 5 lbs a day.

This is essentially what I was thinking as well – My guy gets RB with rice bran, alfalfa cubes (he will eat ANYTHING you put in his alfalfa cubes) a bit of canola oil and his extra Vitamin E since he doesn’t have consistent access to grazing. I hoping I would get the same results if I replaced the pricey RB with a well rounded VMS since I am already adding in the other stuff. He has access to a salt lick, and when the weather gets warmer I add back in electrolytes daily. He was significantly underweight when I got him 18 months ago and used Uckele Tri-Amino to help his muscles as he was brought back into work.

[theresak]

There are vitamin/mineral supplements that come in pelleted form and don’t need another “carrier.” I fed just 4-8 oz of Equishine pellets for several years.

If you switch from a RB to VMS, you may need to add Tri-Amino again, so you may want to price everything out again and include the cost of the tri-amino to the VMS. Also, depending on the amount of rice bran and alfalfa pellets your are feeding, it might be more cost effective to use a low NSC complete feed.

You may want to check the rice bran - it often has quite a high NSC level and may be adding to your horse’s reactivity.

[Scribbler]

@fizzyfuzzybuzzy

This is essentially what I was thinking as well – My guy gets RB with rice bran, alfalfa cubes (he will eat ANYTHING you put in his alfalfa cubes) a bit of canola oil and his extra Vitamin E since he doesn’t have consistent access to grazing. I hoping I would get the same results if I replaced the pricey RB with a well rounded VMS since I am already adding in the other stuff. He has access to a salt lick, and when the weather gets warmer I add back in electrolytes daily. He was significantly underweight when I got him 18 months ago and used Uckele Tri-Amino to help his muscles as he was brought back into work.

Well, have a look at the nutritional guarantee meaning the milligrams and micrograms of all the VM and their relationship to each other. A VMS should have Vitamin E in it so you could dispense with yhat. Also consider if you are in a high or low selenium area or a high or low iron area (especially if you are on well water) which will require more copper and zinc.

Do you need both rice bran and canola oil? Aren’t they doing the same job? And have you considered flax?

Anyhow the answer to your question will be found in the fine print on the labels of the products you’re considering, plus figuring out the cost per day to feed.

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹

[fizzyfuzzybuzzy]

@theresak

There are vitamin/mineral supplements that come in pelleted form and don’t need another “carrier.” I fed just 4-8 oz of Equishine pellets for several years.

If you switch from a RB to VMS, you may need to add Tri-Amino again, so you may want to price everything out again and include the cost of the tri-amino to the VMS. Also, depending on the amount of rice bran and alfalfa pellets your are feeding, it might be more cost effective to use a low NSC complete feed.

You may want to check the rice bran - it often has quite a high NSC level and may be adding to your horse’s reactivity.

I actually use Renew Gold which is a combo of rice bran, coconut meal and flax. I’ve been mulling over replacing the renew gold with barley, but I think barley has a higher glycemic index than rice bran (and I assume higher than coconut meal and flax).

[JB]

@fizzyfuzzybuzzy

I hoping I would get the same results if I replaced the pricey RB with a well rounded VMS since I am already adding in the other stuff.

I don’t know of any v/m that provides the same level (give or take) of nutrients that ration balancers do, that are also cheaper. Balancers are pretty cheap on an as-fed basis.

Fuel is between $1.45 and $1.93 a serving (depends on your serving size, and looking at the 40lb bucket
High Point Grass is $.82/serving at the 50lb bag size.

I get Triple Crown 30 for about $32, which means I’m paying $.64 per serving (I only feed 1lb). For comparison, I feed TC Sr to 1 horse, at $29/bag (I think? Maybe $27? Let’s use $27). At $27/50lb that’s $.54/lb. A minimum feed rate is 5lb - $2.70/day. I’ve never seen even a cheap bagged feed that was cheaper to feed - as designed - than any ration balancer. Even a super cheap feed at $10/50lb would still cost $1 to feed at a min of 5lb, compared to 1lb of a higher priced balancer at $.64 (so even more $ to feed than the less expensive balancers, in a per-serving basis).

With High Point Grass, I also needed to add Nutramino for the AAs. HT doesn’t have the full GA for the Fuel on their site, so I have no idea the lysine and methionine content, but there is some.

The new Triple Crown 30 Gold has zero soy, so is low in protein and AAs, which means you’d need to add them if you’re not feeding enough alfalfa or other source of higher protein (and your grass forage isn’t high enough).

Don’t forget that RBs are also in the range of 1200-1300 calories/lb, so not insignifcant. So, replacing pretty much any v/m supp is going to add a few calories.

Vitamin E - whether there’s enough in a RB OR a v/m supp entirely depends on the product. TC 30? 1000IU/lb .

Fuel? No idea since it’s not listed in the GA but is added.
High Point Grass? 750IU/serving

[BayBondGirl]

@Scribbler

When you feed a vitamin mineral supplement you have to supply the mash carrier. It’s a rare horse that will lick up any plain VMS. Typically also as you say the VMS is not high volume enough to include meaningful amounts of amino acids.

A ration balancer provides the VMS plus the carrier pellets. So you need to feed the recommended amount to get the full amount of VMS. If you have an air fern you can just feed the RB pellets and no other bucket feed.

You need to look at the label. My VMS has more VM than any of the locally available ration balancers and none of those RBs includes meaningful amounts of amino acids. I feed the VMS in a mash of beet pulp, alfalfa cubes, whole oats, and flax that I can adjust as needed. Ive never used an amino acid. If a horse appears to need help building muscles we do well with alfalfa.

The cost of my actual mash is negligible, but my VMS is pricey.

If you were going to feed RB plus a larger mash of something it would make more sense to just do VMS plus mash I think.

I have not priced our local RB but I think they are considerably more expensive than bagged feeds fed at 4 to 5 lbs a day.

I’m local to you Scribbler and am curious which VMS you feed? I’ve been using Primequine (used to be Triple Crown until recently) since the summer but checked my costs and determined I could save myself some money if I switch to the Lifeline Ration Balancer MD. My mare isn’t a fan of the alfalfa pellets she gets for protein so she won’t miss those if I swap them out.

[Scribbler]

@BayBondGirl

I’m local to you Scribbler and am curious which VMS you feed? I’ve been using Primequine (used to be Triple Crown until recently) since the summer but checked my costs and determined I could save myself some money if I switch to the Lifeline Ration Balancer MD. My mare isn’t a fan of the alfalfa pellets she gets for protein so she won’t miss those if I swap them out.

I’m using Pureform Support One. It’s made in Canada.

[stb]

I did the vitamin/mineral supplements for a while. They are expensive, and then you have to add other stuff to it - so even more expensive and also time consuming. My feed room had multiple feed cans and supplement pails and my feeding instructions were extensive. When I wrote out feeding instructions for my farm sitter I realized how ridiculous things had gotten. Also, I saw no difference in how my horses looked or acted as compared to using conventional feeds.

I have gone back to using TC30% as my base, and I add a little bit of TC Senior Gold for additional calories. I have ordered a bag of TC Balancer Gold to try as well. The Gold foods have electrolytes already added, as well as a really good gut support package. So, I no longer need to add electrolytes either. Everybody looks great and feeding time is simple and fast.

[JB]

@stb

I have ordered a bag of TC Balancer Gold to try as well.

Just know you’re losing some protein, if that’s a concern.

[PossumHorse]

There are a couple of VMS with protein. I switched to one specifically for the protein (and I finally have good quality hooves). My air fern gets one handful TC Senior plus Sport Horse Grass pellets from Uckele.

[stb]

@JB

Just know you’re losing some protein, if that’s a concern.

Yes, we will have to see how that goes. The TC rep suggested I try it since my horses get a pound to a pound and a half of Senior Gold daily. Also, the hay I currently have is an o/a mix. Will probably change to straight orchard soon as the horses get more grass time, though. It may be something that works better for me in the winter, but I am willing to try it for the electrolyte and gut support.

[JB]

Yes, the higher end v/m supplements do have some decent amino acid profiles (different from crude protein). You’re not going to find that in those that are a 1, or even 2oz serving, at least I’ve never seen one. But get into 3-4oz+, and you can get a decent AA profile.

[NaturallyHappy]

Thank you for this thread. I really wanted to do the VM thing and I’ve spent a lot of money trying nearly everything suggested here and my pony won’t touch those. I even tried TC 30 - nope. He will eat Quiescence, but nothing else from Foxden. We are going back to Gro N Win with the copper and zinc from Uckele as the amounts are small enough I can syringe it in his mouth. He was a big no to CA Trace, Horse Tech, Uckele’s VM, KPP, and more. He is PPID and IR, as well. I have plenty of samples here if any one wants something. And, I’m always open to suggestions.

[JB]

KIS Trace is another popular option for mineral balancing

[theresak]

@NaturallyHappy

Thank you for this thread. I really wanted to do the VM thing and I’ve spent a lot of money trying nearly everything suggested here and my pony won’t touch those. I even tried TC 30 - nope. He will eat Quiescence, but nothing else from Foxden. We are going back to Gro N Win with the copper and zinc from Uckele as the amounts are small enough I can syringe it in his mouth. He was a big no to CA Trace, Horse Tech, Uckele’s VM, KPP, and more. He is PPID and IR, as well. I have plenty of samples here if any one wants something. And, I’m always open to suggestions.

With a picky horse, I used SmartPak’s grass vitamin/mineral pellets and Equishine pellets - my horse won’t touch powders of any kind.

[NaturallyHappy]

JB, thank you for the KIS idea. Theresak, mine has never eaten any Smart supplement, including flax. Oddly enough, he will eat Quiescence from Foxden, but not Smartpak. I’ve wondered if he smells something in the plastic or sealant.

[fizzyfuzzybuzzy]

Ok, so a twist - what might lead you to believe that your horse is getting too much protein? I added amino acids to my guy (in addition to alfalfa) when he was underweight, but now for maintenance, what factors in to the amount of protein you feel is appropriate for your horse?