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Can we talk about short reins?

Shortening the reins does not mean pulling. You take them with the goal of wanting the neck lengthening along the top. This is a connection between you and the horse.

This connection is extremely important in transitions up. It is also said that the horse has to have the confidence to go forward. This means he must not hit the bit when you ask for forward. This also means that you do not throw your reins away. It is a skill. To have a short softening rein that the horse can go forward into. The rider does not learn this overnight. This is between the horse and the rider and no-one else. When the horse has the confidence in their rider’s hands they WILL go forward

As said above you always ride, do, think and write, seat, then legs, then reins. ALWAYS.

WHAT @eightpondfarm said above is called proving the rein. This will only work when the horse is in the outside rein. This is a reward to the horse. It does not have to be between you and the World, it may not be seen, it is between you and the horse.

Everything is between you and the horse. They are a truthful mirror. What you see is what you are doing and believe me that mirror will show every blackhead and pimple. The horse is still a mirror reflecting when the instructor gets on and the horse goes forward = no blackheads or pimples.

An anecdote for the weight in the reins. Sorry this will probably be wrong you can stop reading now!

You do not know how much your riding has changed until you go back and ride the horses you rode before. Not everyone has that opportunity but boy does it open your eyes. In my case Bravo, Pepper and Tristan. Pepper my first horse and we went through Pony Club together, Tristan a Norwegian Fjord, who ALWAYS jogged the whole way home on a trail ride, Bravo, a percheron/Arab trained to medium at the place I was working at the time.

My heart horse, Hot Pepper, trained by beginner me and went from coming last in everything until the year we won everything we entered, we won a One Day Event on our Dressage Score by 66 points. I just had to think what I want and he did it.

I became an instructor and I got a job interstate. Pepper did not go with me or the horses where I was working. Including the horse I trained, I thought with my seat, for the instructor’s certificate. Aztec.

I had never ridden a trained horse before. I could not ride. I was told my hands were dead, my legs were dead and I was not using my seat. I could NOT do a trot canter transition. Walk canter fine. Trot canter nope. I was living by myself in a caravan and I would cry at night. I would try and think of what I had achieved with Pep and Az to try again the next day.

Bravo was a percheron/Arab retrained to medium who was so heavy and slow and cumbersome to ride. He couldn’t get out of his own way

I brought a warmblood mare back into work. She had been in with the brood mares. She was covered in lumps. I lunged her for 3 days and fell in love. I offered to buy her.

After deliberation my instructor did sell her to me, she was going to sell her to her accountant. She lost her accountant over it. She said I would not have been able to ride her when I first came. Golden Vienna. She had received over 50% in a medium dressage test. She had been trained up to half steps.

I progressed from lunging to getting on her. We would be in trot and she would walk. We would be in canter and she would trot. I was told I was not using my seat.

I have never ridden in spurs, I have short Achilles tendons and can’t put my heels down like normal people. I did not pick up a whip. I did not kick. I physically leant forward and stroked her neck and said, "Thank you Vinnie for telling me I am not using my seat. I will try again.

Every.Single,Day, with the same result … until. Day 31. On Day 31 I did not feel any different. On Day 31 I did not feel that I was doing anything remotely differently. On Day 31 she stayed in trot. On Day 31 she stayed in canter. On Day 31 my life changed. It was pure magic. Don’t take 31 days like I did, start pilates now. And don’t forget that I was taking out 5 hour trail rides in a dressage saddle plus giving and taking lessons daily before this job. At this job I was riding 8 dressage horses a day.

On Day 31 I could do trot canter transitions. Suzie Q runs around with her jumper half off, waving her hands in the air and squealing. Imagine being soooo happy about doing something so mundane.

Sue can you hop on Bravo? He had a grass seed in his mouth yesterday and we don’t want him going up and over backwards on a customer do we?

On Bravo in a snaffle, and not his normal double bridle, because of the seed and OMG. HE was light and soft and forward and started doing a canter pirouette. I was so disappointed to get off. I gave him to the student. When she came out I asked how did he go. He is so heavy and cumbersome and couldn’t get out of his own way.

I went home and hopped on Pepper. I was on a loose rein, approaching the second corner. I picked up the reins. He shot backwards past A. I had no idea what happened and so I did it again. The same thing happened. So Pepper told me that I am now picking up the reins differently to how I did before. Gee did I pick them up gingerly after that. So the picking up the reins from Ammy Sue to professional Sue was nowhere near the same, however if you had asked me I would have said there was no difference.

And the last anecdote if you have made it this far was on Tristan, the Norwegian Fjord. When I say he jogged home I meant it. He jogged home every step, I had had a session where I had tried to make him walk by taking him away and turning for home and I had to stop as someone, probably me, was going to get hurt.

So I take him out on a trail ride and when he went to jog. I did not pull on the reins. I did have hold of them. I dropped my seat.

He threw a full on, no holds barred tantrum. Like a little kid who throws himself down on his tummy and hits his fists on the ground. Then he went right 2 steps and we hit a tree. Back to the same spot and the tantrum. Then we went left 2 steps and we hit a tree, so we returned to the same spot and the tantrum. Then we went back 2 steps and we hit a tree. He returned to the same spot and he stood. I dropped the reins on his neck, asked for walk with my seat and said, "Okay Tris you can walk home now. " AND HE DID.

I went back years later and asked the trail ride guide who was riding him if he ever jogs on the way home. She looked at me as if I was nuts.

So at @KurPlexed I will say that before you shorten the rein, you have to have your seat working first, and then your legs, only then can you shorten the reins.

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There is a double edged sword in this, because of course to have consistent contact you must be quiet in your hands, but your horse also has some agency. A horse that is constantly fighting the contact will make anyone’s hands look bad. The way to fix MOST contact issues is to ride the horse more forward, which a lot of ammies are also afraid to do. So instead they pull, and the horse goes less forward. The horse that doesn’t take the contact doesn’t allow you to find that elastic feeling in the back of your upper arm through your elbow. It’s make your own, which is near impossible if you don’t know what it’s supposed to feel like in the first place.

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Lol yes. This is what I was saying exactly.

Had a great lesson today and had huge success. It is a seat and strength (fitness) issue.

I really need to anchor down my seat and push thru (like some were saying) once I could do that then he came thru and I was able to be soft on that short 2nd nub rein. Def someting I need to think. 1. Balance seat, 2. Engage core 3. Receive power and all of that needs to happen rather quickly.

I was getting stuck between my warm up (long frame and my collected shorter frame) but I think we had a break thru today. I’ll know tomorrow when I’m alone lol

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The concept of relaxation really helped me. But more so, and there EXPERTS here, so I defer to them, but I think about my horse taking contact with me as compared me taking contact with him. It really keeps my hands quiet because they don’t have to do anything. The whole image of “holding hands” helped me. Once the horse steps under , down and takes hold of my hand I can adjust the length of my rein is that it is not loose.

For me this image/concept pretty much helped me with the contact/rein length issue I also use an image the horse moving those hind legs under my seat/butt. That keeps me thinking/riding back to front, which then the horse moves forward, takes contact, and you don’t have to worry about rein length. I am a VERY visual rider and use images as much as possible with riding. It really helps me quiets the aids/seat… I don’t know if this helps.

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Thank you for your reply. So great. And i totally agree. It was a seat issue and of course will be a work in progress.

I trained my first FEI horse about 6 years ago and I’ve forgotten some of the stages and thus was one of them. I know what I need to feel but was having a hard time creating it. Once I got my seat anchored and effective it was there for me. I can’t hold it together too long without a break but that’s ok. At least I’m figuring out how to find it.

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Yes!! It was def a forward issue too. Needed to hunker down and send that suckered forward. Once he took me seriously, we were able to put things together nicely.

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To anchor seat think about getting “longer” and breath. You get longer and taller from the pelvis up and longer from the pelvis down the hips/legs down. Think of the pelvis of “control central,.” and that is where the upper body and lower body they meet. Like I mentioned on this site images really help me.

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It totally helps in theory - I always forget these great visuals and tips while I’m in the saddle and tend to remember on my way home that I wanted to try them

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I love to watch videos before I ride and watched Amelia Newcomb podcast in which she and a guest (can’t remember her name) discussed transverse abs and glute meds. That really helped me to zero in on the parts I needed to activate and stabilize more.

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Were you at my lesson last night? :sweat_smile:

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Ah!! Now this is a really cool idea!

Did she have any exercise suggestions to help with the transverse abs and glute meds?

I think I was basically saying the same thing. I was referring to lengthening the rein like actually letting the rein out longer…not using your body to lengthen or change the frame keeping the reins the same, which is how I have been taught.

I’m confused. Letting the reins slip through your hands absolutely should change the length of neck, which is what Arthur Kottas is saying. I can marginally change the length of neck by opening and closing my elbows, but that is more to follow the natural up-down in the gaits or small changes like between the medium and the extended.

Do you ride on the same rein nub in the working trot and the collected trot?

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She didn’t give exercises bc they are part of her paid subscription video class but here is the link to the video I watched and just seeing where these muscles are and being conscious about activating them helped me immensely.

It was really interesting to hear them speak about how riders are so focused on using our inside (thigh) muscles and that it’s really the transverse abs and glute meds that stabilize us. It helped me to activate the glute meds while keeping my glutes relaxed.

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I don’t have nubs unless you mean my arms and I’m terrible for slipping my reins ahhaa but I would likely shorten my reins a bit but not a huge amount. I agree with what you are saying I was picturing something else.

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Yes. However, warm up working trot with lower neck position requires longer reins so a different nub.

When horse is warmed up and working, there is no shifting around of the length between your hand and the bit except in free or extended walk. All other adjustments are made at the elbow and shoulder allowing the hand to come forward to allow the horse to lengthen the neck slightly as the frame lengthens for medium and extended gaits.

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We’re saying the same thing, though I would argue there’s no “warm-up working trot.” A working trot is a gait asked for in a test. A warm-up trot has it’s own purpose.

If I rode the working trot and the collected trot on the same rein stop my trainers would tell me I am not showing enough of a difference between the gaits. I see this comment from judges all the time. Of course there’s no test that asks you to go from a working gait to a collected gait. Maybe you have much longer/more flexible arms than I do :laughing: and there are many ways to be an effective rider. In the fourth level tests I shorten my reins one stop between the trot and canter work.

Why do you shorten your reins (approx 4") between the trot and canter work. Do you need a shorter neck in the canter work? Is your horse not truly collected in the trot work? Do your reins slip through your hands and get long by the end of the trot work? How do you make transitions from collected canter to collected trot and back to collected canter if you need to adjust the length of rein for each gait?

Right, but in those tests you’re not going to be asked to go from collected to working trot and back. The horse will be at a lower level of development.

The working trot of a more developed horse, used for warm up/breaks from collection will not necessarily be the one you’d show when you take a lower level horse into the show ring. The neck may be higher or lower depending on what needs to be accomplished, but the comparative length of stride and frame will mark it as a working trot.

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Did I not say exactly this in the above post?

I’m a bit baffled by the implication by multiple people in this thread that during a ride they don’t change the length of their rein at all. The point is that your rein should be as long as you want to make it and your horse should meet you in the middle. You and your horse’s training will dictate how successful you are at that. Yes, I shorten my reins for the canter work because my horse needs more support in front in the canter, especially for the lateral work and the pirouettes. That might not be true in a year.

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