One of the best things to remember is rigging is barely an issue if the tree fits. Likewise, you need next to no tension on it. I can ride my horse with air between the cinch and horse and the saddle stays put. Therefore you can break all the “rules” (only run a front cinch etc) with no issue.
If the tree doesn’t fit, you can drive yourself nutty with rigging position and tension and the saddle will wander all over the place.
[QUOTE=aktill;8016478]
One of the best things to remember is rigging is barely an issue if the tree fits. Likewise, you need next to no tension on it. I can ride my horse with air between the cinch and horse and the saddle stays put. Therefore you can break all the “rules” (only run a front cinch etc) with no issue.
If the tree doesn’t fit, you can drive yourself nutty with rigging position and tension and the saddle will wander all over the place.[/QUOTE]
Word. 
I no longer have to overtighten my cinch or use a special no-slip pad or use a pad that has a keeper for the latigo or anything. Just a felt pad with a navajo blanket on top because that’s part of the fun and off we go!
“Leather Drop Western “y” Rig Converter” is easy to put on your western saddle, effectively makes your saddle “center-fire” rigged but is simpler for you.
I don’t have a problem with it moving side to side, I will often be riding and have someone tell me my cinch looks loose. Issue seems to be that the saddle will work its way forward some to where it feels tight on his shoulders.
So, in this side shot
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ccyVQ6DYk_eZWQxupse7YNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
where would you think the cinch should lay?
Does the saddle look like it’s just not a good fit?
Also, what about a cinch like this?
http://www.5starequineproducts.com/cinchascinches/y-cinch-natural/
I rode tonight for the first time in 2-1/2 weeks (Cody needed some time off and he saw the chiropractor yesterday).
Saddle actually seemed to not move forward much which was nice. The back of the saddle does bounce some though at the trot (I post) and I worry that it is bouncing on his back in the area where the chiropractor saw some issues. What is it about how a saddle fits that contributes to bouncing in the back?
Also, it seems that where the skirts are laced together in the back it is kind of tight against his spine. Do you think that could be modified to be more forgiving there?
Here is a link to a variety of saddle fit pics over the last year
https://plus.google.com/photos/111009817625947235626/albums/6117401711630484145?authkey=CMiD2YGzqr6DuwE
Here are some pics of what I was trying to describe about the back
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/b2hEKDqFw-E-HNE7SUSAE4jZ_FUU3h7FFr3DUbAWQx4?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/W_ixMAZQ74vxK3JB_cEX8YjZ_FUU3h7FFr3DUbAWQx4?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/sYKRXzIcwm_odY4SzG5fEojZ_FUU3h7FFr3DUbAWQx4?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/PmtZ14W6Tig1Vd5sHiHFFojZ_FUU3h7FFr3DUbAWQx4?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ZLEX3Uz_z7GNnA109JWdTYjZ_FUU3h7FFr3DUbAWQx4?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/eg4GmGHACAMK1DkG6eE5vojZ_FUU3h7FFr3DUbAWQx4?feat=directlink
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/rIyhH7XhXtCBOfKncfcfnYjZ_FUU3h7FFr3DUbAWQx4?feat=directlink
First off, looks won’t tell much. How a saddle fits with the horse standing square on concrete isn’t much value, since nobody much cares to ride a stationary horse. If the saddle is moving significantly, then it’s saying it doesn’t fit.
You’ve said it tends to scoot forward. To generalize, either it fits but you’re saddling up too far back (unlikely), or the forward portion of the bars is too wide.
You’ve said the back bounces. That either reinforces that the front is too wide (diving down at trot), or you’re only using the forward cinch like most people (lots of floppy saddles out there). A full double rigging is dysfunctional without the rear cinch, but that’s only an issue if the tree isn’t a great fit.
In both cases, it’s implying you don’t have a great fit.
In terms of being tight over the loin, if it’s causing a pressure point, odds are the saddle is bridging too. There’s a small chance the saddlemaker fit the rear jockeys too tight, but that’s a beginner mistake, so unlikely. You can’t really fix that and have it look pretty, but you can fix it (figure $300ish to patch and relace). The lack of craftsmanship in the photos you’ve posted isn’t impressing me much, but it doesn’t look dysfunctional.
Finally, where the cinch lies is to some degree a personal preference. If you’re roping heavy cattle (unlikely), full double rigging is a great choice. If you just like double, then run a mohair cinch front and back and do both up (the rear being mohair will give more, and reduce the bouncing of the rear of the saddle). If you want to run a single cinch, we’ve already talked about the options. A Y-cinch will work fine too, but will act identically to the long latigo, v-rigged version.
Not sure if that helps, but with a saddle that really fits, you don’t have these issues.
[QUOTE=aktill;8017516]
You’ve said it tends to scoot forward. To generalize, either it fits but you’re saddling up too far back (unlikely), or the forward portion of the bars is too wide.[/QUOTE]
I always make sure that it is set back when I saddle him. You have put into more succinct words what I have not been able to describe very well about the forward portion of the bars.
You’ve said the back bounces. That either reinforces that the front is too wide (diving down at trot), or you’re only using the forward cinch like most people (lots of floppy saddles out there). A full double rigging is dysfunctional without the rear cinch, but that’s only an issue if the tree isn’t a great fit.
I do only use the front cinch, snug but not tight. How snug would I need the back cinch to make a difference? I have used it in the past and had it where it is just against his sides but I can easily slide a hand under it? It’s hard to adjust sometimes with the holes on the billets–one hole seems too tight whereas the next seems too loose 
The lack of craftsmanship in the photos you’ve posted isn’t impressing me much, but it doesn’t look dysfunctional.
Could you tell me what you see that makes you say that? Compared to other saddles I see at the barn, had thought mine seemed a little better made, but that could just be what I have to compare it to! There is not much to see for Western saddles down here in south Florida
Finally, where the cinch lies is to some degree a personal preference. If you’re roping heavy cattle (unlikely), full double rigging is a great choice. If you just like double, then run a mohair cinch front and back and do both up (the rear being mohair will give more, and reduce the bouncing of the rear of the saddle). If you want to run a single cinch, we’ve already talked about the options. A Y-cinch will work fine too, but will act identically to the long latigo, v-rigged version.
Not sure if that helps, but with a saddle that really fits, you don’t have these issues.
Someday I will have a saddle that really fits, but for now, this is what I have to work with and I am trying to make it work the best I can for my horse
This saddle was “supposed” to fit from what I went through in ordering it. (Down here it’s Circle Y saddles or less)
The video 28 in your pictures catalog looks like you’re backing him, yes? It does look like the saddle just keeps sliding forward and there’s a pretty big gap at the shoulders. It is like the narrower part of the tree that would fit his shoulders is trying to find its spot and since the front of the tree is too wide it just moves more and more forward. I don’t know if that made sense or not.
Have you tried a pad with shims at the shoulders? I have a friend who swore by this saddle pad: http://www.ricottisaddle.com/saddle_pad.htm.
I have been pondering one of those for awhile. Currently I have some 1/4" felt that I’ve cut into shims that I’ll stick under the front of the saddle.
From before he ever had a saddle on his back and even through weekly dressage lessons (it did get a /little/ better) he has always had a bit of a dip behind his shoulder which has made saddle fitting…fun.
Tonight I might try shims and see if my latigos are long enough to do front and back on both sides.
How heavy is your new saddle Pocket Pony?
New saddle isn’t too heavy at all - maybe 27 lb? I think it with the packaging it came in was 33 lb or so. In any event, it isn’t too heavy for me to manage, which is another reason I chose this saddler/type of saddle. I have old shoulder injuries and and I’m getting too old to heft around a 50-lb. saddle!
Saddle fitting is so frustrating!
[QUOTE=aktill;8016358]
Because using a double rigged saddle without a rear cinch overloads the front of the saddle, and generally causes even a correctly shaped tree to dive down in front…[/QUOTE]
Are you saying the weight, a matter of ounces is going to make a difference? Or are you saying the only people in my area who use their saddles correctly are the riders who are from Mexico with the back cinches tight? Even when showing I never had a back cinch touching my horse. With no contact how does it influence the saddle fit?
I will also say that any time I ride you can easily put a hand between the girth and my horse. I feel that if you need to tighten a girth to get your saddle to sit where it should something is really wrong with the fit.
[QUOTE=froglander;8017593]
I do only use the front cinch, snug but not tight. How snug would I need the back cinch to make a difference? I have used it in the past and had it where it is just against his sides but I can easily slide a hand under it? It’s hard to adjust sometimes with the holes on the billets–one hole seems too tight whereas the next seems too loose :([/QUOTE]
Depends what you want to use. If you’re using a leather rear cinch those have no give at all, so I’d only do them up so they touch the horse’s barrel rather than to snug them up. Even then, they’ll help to control some of that rear saddle bounce. If you use something like a mohair rear cinch you can snug them up, since they’ll give a bit (that’s what I use, and that’s what double rigged saddles in the 1800’s often were used with).
If the rear cinch you have doesn’t have a wandering stitch line between the existing holes, you can get a cheap $10 punch set from Tandy’s or the like and punch half holes. I either do that, or replace the rear billets with latigos and add rear holders or slots (set them up like the fronts, essentially).
They’re nothing I would particularly worry about, but this is what I meant:
Things like this are just part of the deal with production saddles. My colt saddle is like this…the top is fine, but looking under the cheyenne roll at the stitch line makes it seem like a child with a shotgun created the stitching holes (they were likely drilled). The stitch line on my rear cinch was clearly done by the drunken sailor of yore too, but since I don’t use it, it doesn’t bug me except when I find it in the tack room (remember I use a mohair cinch in back).
These companies have to build to a price, so comparing to custom isn’t entirely fair, but such is life.
Google AboutTheHorse and look at their saddle pads. The sell pads and shims designed to correct “not quite right” fits. Their $20 video is very good at explaining what to look for in fitting, and is not a sales pitch (ie, can be used with any saddle).
[QUOTE=2enduraceriders;8018367]
Are you saying the weight, a matter of ounces is going to make a difference? Or are you saying the only people in my area who use their saddles correctly are the riders who are from Mexico with the back cinches tight? Even when showing I never had a back cinch touching my horse. With no contact how does it influence the saddle fit?[/QUOTE]
Not sure if you actually care or are just being cute, but no, I’m taking about balancing the front and rear support pulls rather than talking about the dead weight of a loose rear cinch. Particularly if the saddle is too wide in front, cinching up snug in front with nothing in back will tend to lift the rear of the saddle.
A loose rear cinch is less than useless since it’s just something for an itchy horse to stick a leg through, or somewhere for a working horse to get a branch or the like jammed through.
[QUOTE=aktill;8019153]
Google AboutTheHorse and look at their saddle pads. The sell pads and shims designed to correct “not quite right” fits. Their $20 video is very good at explaining what to look for in fitting, and is not a sales pitch (ie, can be used with any saddle).[/QUOTE]
The back cinch that came with the saddle is leather. Might try it with the mohair cinch I have (just need to find a connector strap) or see if I can find some longer latigos.
Last night I rode with my 3/4" 5-star pad with a 1/4" liner underneath that and two thin shims tucked up under the front of the saddle. It actually seemed to stay in place pretty well (side to side has never been an issue) and Cody was moving out nicely.
I did get that video, need to watch it again. Going to go check out the saddle pad though.
Baling twine is a good redneck connector just to see if it works 
What length of tie strap would be considered “extra long”? In looking around online I am finding 5’ and 6’ ones, and one that is 6’6".
Also, the closest I can find to a “wide” cinch is a roper cinch, would that be better than a standard straight cinch if I am going to use a long latigo and a single cinch? Or is there somewhere to find a truly wide cinch like the one in aktill’s photo http://www.easphotography.com/Tindur/IMG_2925.JPG ?
https://www.facebook.com/BeaverValleyFiberArts/photos/pb.110340385749493.-2207520000.1424580482./714213132028879/?type=3&theater
Or
http://borkandsons.com/buckaroo.html
latigo length depends on how long your cinch is and how big your horse is.
Thanks! Had actually corresponded with the people in the first link about a year ago about a wider cinch, will contact them again
Also found some shims from About the Horse that I think would work, so once I decide on a width going to try that too
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