Can you help me ID this antique bit??

[equusrocks]

Bought this at an estate sale, would really like to clean it up, but am not sure how to approach it in a proper way. Also, any ideas on age? It’s pretty horrific looking, not something I will be using, obviously, but it’s an interesting piece to have around!

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/equusrocks/12922406_10153795116024442_701568052_o.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/equusrocks/12922059_10153795115999442_1262631076_o.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/equusrocks/12919379_10153795115924442_1965925269_o.jpg

[Bluey]

Looks like a spade bit, supposed to, on a extremely well trained horse, hang in their mouth so they have to keep their head elevated and on the vertical, or the spade part of the bit hits their palate.

By the time a horse is wearing one of those, they don’t have to be trained or guided much by rein, just the slightest wiggle indicates what they are asked, so the bit, yes, would be terrible if you wanted to use it with any other than the lightest touch.

Only for specially well trained horses, that are ridden under those conditions that require them to work in the way that bit requires of them.

Here is more:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Mona+Lisa+spade+bit&client=safari&rls=en&biw=1240&bih=637&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjjuvTaqPPLAhXEmoMKHTzOAE8QsAQIKA

I think that kind is called Mona Lisa type, with the fat, straight shanks.

[equusrocks]

Neat, thank you! I wish it had a makers mark!

[cloudy18]

I think it’s really cool! They say riding a horse trained to go in a spade bit is like driving a top-of-the-line sports car. Bluey’s right, used in the situation it’s intended for, it’s not as horrible as it looks. If I put it on my mare, she would kill me.

[goodhors]

Well if you don’t feel up to cleaning it, maybe I could take it off your hands? Truly! Would love to have one like that on my wall to admire. Our barn sales run to rusty old iron draft snaffles, nothing like this. Be careful with it, decorations may be hanging onto rusty iron by only a tiny connection. Don’t want to knock them loose while cleaning.

Looks very nice, I would have to get out a design book for the specific name. Bluey’s guess sounds right but they can be similar and different names.

As Bluey said, this is for a very highly trained horse only, working on the tiniest rein feel and body cues. What older Vaquero folks called a “straight-up Bridle horse”. Training of about 5 years from first Hackamore bosal to final bit choice, if done the slow, patient Vaquero method.

[Foxyrab]

The magazine “Western Horseman” has a monthly section titled “What’s It Worth” where a fellow by the name of Danny Vernon, owner of “Saddle Traders & Tack” in Post, Texas appraises old western items. Perhaps for a fee he would be willing to provide you information on your bit.

[aktill]

I don’t recognize the maker, but that’s a solid jawed Santa Barbara spade with an alligator spoon.

This would be a Mona Lisa mouthpiece:
http://www.spillerspurs.com/images/340_CutterMonaLisa_3_resize.JPG

The Santa Barabara part is the shape of the cheek, Mona Lisa for the mouthpiece (the hood etc).

I’m not wild about the rollers on the braces, and the solid jawed mouthpieces are a little less signal than a loose jawed cheek, but it looks reasonably nice. I want to say that the braces aren’t original, just based off how they attach to spoon.

They’re lovely old bits that are misunderstood, for all the opinions listed here lol.

Post here for more info:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/626214170768943/?ref=ts&fref=ts

[aktill]

PS, do NOT CLEAN IT UP if you want to preserve any value. The patina and rust are a good thing to people that value these lovely old bits.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=aktill;8604613]
I don’t recognize the maker, but that’s a solid jawed Santa Barbara spade with an alligator spoon.

This would be a Mona Lisa mouthpiece:
http://www.spillerspurs.com/images/340_CutterMonaLisa_3_resize.JPG

The Santa Barabara part is the shape of the cheek, Mona Lisa for the mouthpiece (the hood etc).

I’m not wild about the rollers on the braces, and the solid jawed mouthpieces are a little less signal than a loose jawed cheek, but it looks reasonably nice. I want to say that the braces aren’t original, just based off how they attach to spoon.

They’re lovely old bits that are misunderstood, for all the opinions listed here lol.

Post here for more info:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/626214170768943/?ref=ts&fref=ts[/QUOTE]

Well, it has been 40 years, don’t exactly remember all that was said then.
I am sure today there are different ideas about all that also, plus regional differences.

Thank you for your more exact and correct information.

[Wirt]

If I had make an educated guess, I would guess it was made by the maker, Madueno. Circa late 1800’s, or turn of the century.

I have and use several spade bits. That’s what I do. I prefer loose jaw, with the cannon bar hung high, rather than center hung like this one.

I could take it off your hands though.

[Bluey]

Googling, here are the first two hits, you may compare yours to those:

http://cowcampsupply.com/bits/

http://eaglebrandcowboytack.com/spade_bits.html

If it is an antique bit not to be used, maybe just keep it as is, don’t try to change or clean it, unless some collector tells you how to preserve them better.

You could contact them and see if you email a picture, if they can answer your questions.

[Wirt]

When you compare old spade to new ones, you see most modern spades, even though the cheek pieces are similar, the mouth piece is very different. The modern ones, the braces are set right next to the cannon bar, and follow it then bend up to the spoon, which defeats the purpose of the braces. The old ones the braces are set above and slightly below the cannon, and curve up towards the spoon with much more of an angle. Then the spoons are set back at a steep angle in newer spades. . The old spades, the port and spoon went pretty straight up, and were 4 or 4/2 inches tall. Many of the old bits were only 4 1/2 inches wide. There were riding smaller horses in general.
I know a couple of collectors that are as expert as they come. I sent the photos to them. I will post when I hear back.

[Wirt]

What I got so far is it is from the bay area, a San Jose, CA area maker, possibly a fellow named Larious? 1920-30s

[equusrocks]

[QUOTE=Foxyrab;8604503]
The magazine “Western Horseman” has a monthly section titled “What’s It Worth” where a fellow by the name of Danny Vernon, owner of “Saddle Traders & Tack” in Post, Texas appraises old western items. Perhaps for a fee he would be willing to provide you information on your bit.[/QUOTE]
I messaged him and he was so helpful! Thank’s for the tip!