Canada. Help me help you. (Or, how much showing has that Moose done?)

[dags]

I feel like I’ve been the width of the web tracking down a Canadian horse’s results.

I’ve been to equinecanada.ca (with horse’s passport #), it gave me a sum total of 2 shows and every.single.class is titled “Miscellaneous(Non-PointClass)Fences–Over”.

I went to Thunderbird’s showgroundslive site, searched show by show for the horse’s name, found another 4 or so shows.

Of course I knew it went to Thermal, so I went over to hitsshows.com and attempted to figure out what I thought it had shown in and when so I could pull results up division by division.

Finally asked owner what shows I’m missing, she pulls up another Tbird show and sends me over to horseshowsonline.com for their local association results.

Tell me what I’m doing wrong. One number goes into USEF and out comes 12 pages of detailed results from anywhere the horse has shown in this country (assuming he wasn’t re-identified…). Even for non-rated classes, Opportunity Walk/Trot? Totally on record. As long as the show is an affiliate or C rated or whatever that equivalent is now… do you have this system? Does EC only cover a specific geographic region? Do they only report on divisions with an X or better rating? At what fence height or rating will they assign a name to a class? Do they just throw some results at fly tape and whatever sticks is a record?

We’ve had a sudden surge of Canadian horses and I’ve been on this wild results chase 6 times in the past 30 days. I feel like I must be missing something. Please help me figure out what’s the best way to get an idea of how much horse showing a horse from your country has done!

[gumshoe]

Do NOT rely on the results you see on Equine Canada. They recently revamped the site and when I plug in MY horse’s name, half the shows he has done don’t appear at all and half of the ones that are correct have no results posted at all. It’s pretty frustrating.

[overthemoon]

It sounds like the horse may not have done a lot of rated showing. The non-point classes are going to be things like One Metre Hunter, etc. If the horse has been to non-rated shows (ie “provincial” shows), they won’t come up on his Equine Canada page.

That’s the best I can figure. I use our database loosely but I’ve never really gotten too deep in it.

[SSacky]

Yeah only (some) Gold rated shows will show up on Equine Canada. Our bronze © and silver(B) level shows will not.

Your best answer would be asking for the Provincial (silver) or local (bronze and unrated) show circuits that the horse did and look there.

Can’t speak for other areas of Canada, but here provincial shows tend to be a lot more popular and competitive than the equivalent shows seem to be in the states.

But most places aren’t very good at keeping results after a couple years. Most of the people I know who were bringing along sales horses would keep a record print out of all the winnings for this reason.

And as the previous poster said, Non Point classes are schooling classes.

[SSacky]

[QUOTE=overthemoon;7285134]
It sounds like the horse may not have done a lot of rated showing. The non-point classes are going to be things like One Metre Hunter, etc. If the horse has been to non-rated shows (ie “provincial” shows), they won’t come up on his Equine Canada page.

That’s the best I can figure. I use our database loosely but I’ve never really gotten too deep in it.[/QUOTE]

Technically, provincial shows are rated. Silver and bronze shows are still rated … they are rated silver and bronze.

[overthemoon]

[QUOTE=SSacky;7285228]
Technically, provincial shows are rated. Silver and bronze shows are still rated … they are rated silver and bronze.[/QUOTE]

The implication of my usage of non-rated was non-EC. They are not national level shows that would be documented in the EC database.

ETA: OP, if you have the horse’s passport, there may be results included. The onus is on the owner/rider to document the classes and placings, however. Shows will just stamp that they were in attendance. But again, this is at the EC level.

[dags]

I’m starting to see why I’m confused!

So apparently I’m not missing anything, it is lacking a certain cohesiveness.

How are the ratings designated? Does the rating limit what classes can be held?

Are there just 6 provincial associations? Or are they further divided?

[gumshoe]

Provincial results DO show up on the Equine Canada site. They show as “non-point” or whatever. For Ontario at least.

[overthemoon]

[QUOTE=dags;7285284]
I’m starting to see why I’m confused!

So apparently I’m not missing anything, it is lacking a certain cohesiveness.

How are the ratings designated? Does the rating limit what classes can be held?

Are there just 6 provincial associations? Or are they further divided?[/QUOTE]

6?

[overthemoon]

[QUOTE=gumshoe;7285285]
Provincial results DO show up on the Equine Canada site. They show as “non-point” or whatever. For Ontario at least.[/QUOTE]

Interesting! That may be unique to Ontario.

ETA: I just visited the database for the first time in a few weeks; didn’t realize they changed! Did Ontario’s provincial/silver shows get recorded in the EC database prior to this change?

[dags]

[QUOTE=overthemoon;7285270]

ETA: OP, if you have the horse’s passport, there may be results included. The onus is on the owner/rider to document the classes and placings, however. Shows will just stamp that they were in attendance. But again, this is at the EC level.[/QUOTE]

Okay, this is pretty key.
Do the shows submit results for the rated divisions, or is that owner/rider responsibility also?

Do the provincials work through EC to get their ratings? What differentiates Gold/Silver/Bronze shows? (Money offered? Fence height? Exhibitor perks?)

I believe I’ve used OHJA and BCHJA web sites thinking they were kind of similar to our supporting state-wide associations, but it sounds like your provincial governing bodies are a bit more independent than our states version. I guess lots of land and comparatively low population density makes it unlikely horses are doing a lot of provincial go-betweens?

I think this might help me:

I have lots of Thunderbird shows found courtesy Thunderbird’s web site, but not all of those results are coming up on EC even with passport #, is that b/c:
A: That particular tbird show was not Gold rated
B: The owner/rider did not report points
C: The show was Gold rated but horse did not show a rated division
D: Year end points from Tbird would be largely maintained by a provincial organization (perhaps with a few “national/gold” level exceptions? Kind of ties in with A I guess)

Many thanks to all that have chimed in. It’s frustrating that I can typically put together a life history for a US horse with very little trouble but can’t get the same thing done for our northern clients. I hope my confusion is somewhat coherent…

[dags]

[QUOTE=overthemoon;7285324]
Interesting! That may be unique to Ontario.

ETA: I just visited the database for the first time in a few weeks; didn’t realize they changed! Did Ontario’s provincial/silver shows get recorded in the EC database prior to this change?[/QUOTE]

I noticed this too but as far as I can tell they’ve just changed the design & layout of the site, not how the database is constructed, as I’m still getting horse reports from them that look identical… no real class details, no class counts, overall very hard to read as the shows just kind of blend from one to another with no start/stop distinction…

FWIW, USEF just did the same change-the-layout-but-really-nothing-else-to-dazzle-them move too.

[dags]

[QUOTE=overthemoon;7285323]
6?[/QUOTE]

Sorry, 10? I didn’t scroll down the wiki page far enough…

[gumshoe]

In Ontario, yes.

[QUOTE=overthemoon;7285324]
Interesting! That may be unique to Ontario.

ETA: I just visited the database for the first time in a few weeks; didn’t realize they changed! Did Ontario’s provincial/silver shows get recorded in the EC database prior to this change?[/QUOTE]

[SSacky]

[QUOTE=dags;7285353]
Okay, this is pretty key.
Do the shows submit results for the rated divisions, or is that owner/rider responsibility also?

Do the provincials work through EC to get their ratings? What differentiates Gold/Silver/Bronze shows? (Money offered? Fence height? Exhibitor perks?)

I believe I’ve used OHJA and BCHJA web sites thinking they were kind of similar to our supporting state-wide associations, but it sounds like your provincial governing bodies are a bit more independent than our states version. I guess lots of land and comparatively low population density makes it unlikely horses are doing a lot of provincial go-betweens?

I think this might help me:

I have lots of Thunderbird shows found courtesy Thunderbird’s web site, but not all of those results are coming up on EC even with passport #, is that b/c:
A: That particular tbird show was not Gold rated
B: The owner/rider did not report points
C: The show was Gold rated but horse did not show a rated division
D: Year end points from Tbird would be largely maintained by a provincial organization (perhaps with a few “national/gold” level exceptions? Kind of ties in with A I guess)

Many thanks to all that have chimed in. It’s frustrating that I can typically put together a life history for a US horse with very little trouble but can’t get the same thing done for our northern clients. I hope my confusion is somewhat coherent…[/QUOTE]

to see how the ratings are divided up check out the table on page 12/13 (by pdf page not by the page number on the document)

http://equinecanada.ca/images/stories/2013_Rules/Mar28/section_g_2013_digital_28Mar13-e.pdf

Its mostly prize money. I believe each competition has to gain a license and designate the rating of the competition. (see page 7 section A). There are other difference in terms of ranking of officials, number of rings, number of days the competition can be held etc.

Also see page 8 (by document’s page number at the bottom right). After this table are descriptions of the individual show level.
http://equinecanada.ca/images/stories/2013_Rules/Jun24/section_a_2013_digital_24Jun13-e.pdf

According to this document all silver and gold results must be reported. I didn’t realize this, but looking at the database, those results are actually there. This would be for all silver competitions.

silver does not necessarily mean provincial, though this seems to be the case for most provinces. Individual shows can get a silver license.

gold competitions are the only national competitions and sometimes have futher ratings of A, B and C though these do not correlate the same way as they do in the US.

[dags]

SSacky, thank you so much. Especially for linking the documents.

[hunterboulevard]

I believe my moose is one of the ones in questions (summer fling).
I’d be happy to help with the local information if you want to shoot me another email. Our system in Canada has gone down the drain the last few years.

[Vesper_Sparrow]

You’re looking in the wrong place! You should be looking in the Cervid Canada website, not the Equine Canada one.

Har, har, har…bad joke.

[dags]

[QUOTE=hunterboulevard;7285627]
I believe my moose is one of the ones in questions.
I’d be happy to help with the local information if you want to shoot me another email. Our system in Canada has gone down the drain the last few years.[/QUOTE]

Your moose inspired the physical act of posting, but he’s only one of many this month (and dozens over the years) that have sent me all over the place. When you mentioned horseshowtime I slapped my head and thought Duh. Because I know I can often find many of my northern horses there, and they have a great Horse Name search function. But amid the web-scouring I forgot to check it.

Was looking to find either one majikal web site that reports all, or perhaps a list of sites to bookmark in a special Moose Results folder. Our Canada contingent is growing and compiling & posting show records is a big part of our overall strategy. I’m just always surprised at how much harder that is to do for horses up there.

I also remember some type of split between EC and… I don’t know what? A few years ago. I didn’t know if that resulted in a lot of changes to reporting country-wide?

[ElisLove]

Try showgroundslive. I know rmsj runs their stuff with that site