Years ago we raised Pembrokes and really enjoyed them. Then life got hectic and we stopped breeding. Now, as I’m getting older and slowing down, I’d like to get back into breeding on a very limited scale. I’d like a trio at most but just a pair would be fine to. BUT, I really hated taking the newborns to the Vet for tail docking, so am thinking of Cardigans this time.
Any Cardigan breeders out there? We are responsible people with an absolutely heavenly environment for doggies 
What are your goals for breeding? Will influence the type of existing breeders willing to consider selling you a breeding quality female.
By pair do you mean a male and female to sporadically breed to each other?
I have linked to one below. I am familiar with her lovely Pembrokes, don’t think I’ve ever seen any of her Cardigans in person. I would expect anybody willing to sell you a true breeding quality female to insist upon a co-ownership. You can build from there. My foundation Pembroke was co-owned with my mentor (who did become a dear friend) and from there I branched out in to breeding under my own kennel name.
Surely it’s very simple: just don’t dock them. I’ve yet to meet a Corgi who’s complained about having a tail.
The dogs would be family pets first, not puppy machines. The most we ever raised with the Pembrokes was 1 litter a year. If, and that is a big if, I raise puppies, I want to start with quality dogs with very good temperaments. I entertain the idea of showing in the future as well. I do not want a kennel, ever, but really enjoy raising and socializing puppies.
Yes, Romany, you could leave Pembrokes undocked, but their standard calls for docked.
I can see we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one.
Corgis in the UK (home of the corgi) are no longer docked.
And rules can be changed. See my above comment about corgis in the UK!
I think the best way to link up with a good breeder is to get involved with the local breed club, go to meetings, attend some local shows, etc. You’ll find out within the year who is reputable and who may produce beautiful dogs but their ethics or conduct is questionable.
yeah, just don’t dock them? it’s illegal in most parts of the world and more and more breeders in the US have stopped docking all sorts of breeds. Many performance-dog owners really don’t want tail-less dogs, and others just realize how pointless it is to chop off puppy tails.
I believe there some lines of corgis that are naturally tailless if you’re bound and determined to raise tail-less dogs.
If you like pembrokes, go with pembrokes. Cardigans are quite different in temperament.
Yes, the UK/European ones have tails, and they are even more adorable. They look like little foxes! My current Pembroke is docked but if I’m ever insane enough to get another one, I will insist on the breeder leaving the tail alone.
[QUOTE=Guin;8045214]
My current Pembroke is docked but if I’m ever insane enough to get another one, I will insist on the breeder leaving the tail alone.[/QUOTE]
Good luck finding a breeder that will leave a typically docked litter undocked. They should be done at such an early age (2-3 days) that they are unlikely to leave one undocked in hopes that YOU will still want that puppy at 8 weeks. Maybe you will, but a breeder that is trying to meet the AKC breed standard is unlikely to leave one long and hope that nothing will fall through.
I own a docked-tail breed and am really indifferent to the whole docking process. I know of many hunting breeds that have tails that are plagued with tail injuries…in fact, I learned of how to keep a tail safe on Facebook from a pointer person - there is a whole protocol for keeping pointer tails from being broken, and how to manage them when they break (not if).
In Europe, there is some backlash about the banning of docking tails in hunting and working breeds because of tail injuries. So…to be truly honest…if the only thing someone don’t like about a breed is a docked tail…ehh…talk to someone that has had a broken tail and see if that is better. If not…maybe not a big enough issue to really draw a line in the sand.
Same with dewclaws – I have had two friends with adult dogs and multiple dewclaw tears. They ended up having the dewclaw removed at adult ages because of the problems.
Ears…that’s another story - purely cosmetic in most cases. But tails? There are some real reasons for docking the tails of certain breeds.
Not a cardigan breeder, but my mom was a couple decades ago, and we’ve always had cardis. In fact I have a cardi sleeping on my foot right now! PM me if you’d like the name of a breeder or two in the South East–I don’t know if that’s too far out for you, or if at this point you’re just looking to gain some connections.
I will warn you, personality wise, cardis are pretty different from pems, in my experience, but not in a bad way. They’re just quirkier. They are not as outgoing as the pems around people, but most I’ve met are good with kids and fantastic family dogs.
Get in touch with White Raven Cardigans (Joanna Kimball) she’s the author of the Ruffly Speaking dogblog and has some fantastic quality Cardigans and is a great resource. I drool over her dogs. Whenever my fiance finally stops fighting me on getting a ‘smaller’ dog I’m getting one of hers.
Thanks everyone! I appreciate all the ideas and opinions.
S1969 - the reason Corgi tails were originally docked is because they were herding sheep and cattle, and yes, it was to avoid tail injuries. I would venture at least 85% of current US corgis are pets or show homes at this point, and thus do not require docking to avoid injury.
[QUOTE=Guin;8046432]
S1969 - the reason Corgi tails were originally docked is because they were herding sheep and cattle, and yes, it was to avoid tail injuries. I would venture at least 85% of current US corgis are pets or show homes at this point, and thus do not require docking to avoid injury.[/QUOTE]
I don’t disagree - unless tail injuries are common in your breed (they are in pointers, and some other hunting breeds). But it will still be difficult for you to find a breeder that will intentionally not dock ONE puppy in a litter that is typically docked.
Personally, having seen puppies immediately after their tail docking by a vet, I am not terribly upset by it. When done properly (and I know there are some breeders that do it themselves…not a fan of this), it’s not really painful or traumatic. If I loved a breed except for the tails being docked…I could easily get over it by hearing even just one story about a broken tail that had to be amputated in an adult dog.
Hearing about how pointer owners protect tails and doctor broken tails…I am glad I never have to worry about that with my docked tail breed. Maybe it would never be an issue…but when it is - it’s a painful one.
I’ve got three Cardi girls sitting at home, waiting for me, so we can do something fun when I get there, as I type. My parents have a brother/sister pair (different litters) at home, too.
I’m not particularly familiar with any breeders out west, but I know of several here in the MidAtlantic, for what that’s worth. Our National Specialty is coming up in May if you’re interested in visiting Chattanooga to see Cardis from all over the country! I’ll hopefully be roadtripping down with my crew for the performance part of the week!
If you haven’t already checked it out, the CWCCA has a Breeder’s Directory broken down by region on their website: http://cardigancorgis.com/BreederDirectory.asp
(And I have to agree with S1969 - I don’t think you’ll have much luck convincing a breeder who breeds for conformation, which is likely most of them, to NOT dock a Pemmie’s tail at this point in time. Maybe if the standards change to allow the undocked tails you’d have more success, but until then, it would probably be easier to import a puppy from Europe with an undocked tail, than to get one from a US breeder…)
[QUOTE=NoDQhere;8044021]
I entertain the idea of showing in the future as well. [/QUOTE]
I think you have the order switched. Reputable breeders are going to require you to show first, breed later IF the animal proved itself in the ring. Start with finding a local Cardi breeder to mentor you and buy a puppy bitch on co-ownership.
Have you read Ruffly Speaking blog? I have really, really enjoyed the posts and frequently reference back. Read everything. Gold mine! Sadly, she doesn’t seem to write anymore.
It is a small pond, much smaller than Pems. Around here, I know of 2 owners between agility and OB. Compare that to too many Pems in agility alone to count. I’m sure breeders of both would be “aghasted” 
at the suggestion that a Pem with a tail is a Cardi. I don’t know how true, genetically, that suggestion is.
I worked for a vet and was the person holding the pups upside down while tails and dewclaws were cut with scissors and then stitched. Not sure if it’s better or worse than banding sheep tails. Since I’ve never been witness to circumcision, is it similar, no anesthetic or numbing? At least circumcision isn’t cutting bone…
^^^^This. My foundation bitch came to me on co-ownership from my mentor who was willing to take the chance that I was committed to the breed and would hold up my end of things. She has co-owned a few other bitches before, I am the only one she has co-owned with who has become heavily invested in the breed.
Competing with my girls is what has allowed me access to some really nice boys and to improve with each generation. My mentor had always restricted herself to what she could drive to (nice options are available) but together we tackled fresh chilled and moved forward.
I don’t think you’ll have much luck convincing a breeder who breeds for conformation, which is likely most of them, to NOT dock a Pemmie’s tail at this point in time. Maybe if the standards change to allow the undocked tails you’d have more success, but until then, it would probably be easier to import a puppy from Europe with an undocked tail, than to get one from a US breeder.
or look for a performance breeder. Corgis are quite popular in agility, and many breeders of agility dogs do not dock tails because the tails are quite useful in agility. I known of breeders of sports cockers, aussies, schnauzers and even dobermans that aren’t docking their pups anymore.
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