I’m in a class that is discussing hot topics in the horse world. It seems like carriage horses all across America are being looked at for cruelty. I would like to know your opinions on this topic as opinions seem to differ from person to person. To start this topic I found a video that clearly has its own opinion you may comment on this or post other videos also. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnNgAKQEN7U#t=12
Part of the problem lies in the uneducated person’s view of horses and what they are capable of doing, without the work being “unkind or cruel”. Other folks perception of animals including horses, to be only ornamental, not “beasts of burden” as in all historical records, but as pets.
This is the true deciding factor, how the viewer perceives a horse, if it should be “made” to work in cities. City horses are among the MOST scrutinized animals ever, with the possiblility of ANYTHING they encounter from daily grooming thru hitching, getting to their sites for customers, being videoed for posting on the Internet with interpretation of what is seen by the poster.
Person knowing about horses in their real life experiences will seldom see a problem on the video, while a “non-horse” experienced person is amazed or horrified at what horse does thru a day of work. There never seems to be a middle ground for these two kinds of folks to meet. No way to educate the city types about horses because they have no way to learn in real life. Horses seem to be best learned up close, hands on, in personal ways.
A “working” animal is different than a pet. Doesn’t matter if it’s police dogs or carriage horses. These are not pets. Many of these animal rights folks can’t differentiate between the two. But then again most of these people have NO knowledge of horse care even if the horse was a pet. They are ignorant and glory in their do-goodness without knowing how stupid they really are.
Not to mention there may be behind the scenes reasons why the carriage horses are a target. It’s called real estate and greed.
Well, all of the equine vets that have examined the NYC carriage horses have declared them to be in good condition and content in their lives. Liam Neeson is a horseman, so he understands this. Those who declare pulling the carriages to be cruel know very little, if anything, about horses.
Do you think there is any way that we could educate city people on how horses are work animals? Also, do you feel that many people that own horses view their horses as pets?
[QUOTE=buckskinlover155;8085291]
Do you think there is any way that we could educate city people on how horses are work animals? Also, do you feel that many people that own horses view their horses as pets?[/QUOTE]
Good luck with that.
Ok, let me rephrase that:
Those who do the screaming cannot be educated, because they have their minds made up and are not open to facts.
If you wish to speak to people who are living it, contact Christina Hansen, she is - I think - president of the carriage drivers in NYC. If you seek footage of how things are done, they are on youtube, seektruthstoplies, I believe is the person who posted them. I might have gotten the name scrambled. Eva (michaleenflynn) used to post here on COTH.
The carriage horses are not created equal, but NYC, for all the ruckus around them, are the most regulated group in equine industry history!
For part of the protestors, it’s about the animals, for the financial backers, it’s about the stables.
And last but not least, a couple of years ago when the Grand Prix jumper Hickstead collapsed and died (right after the same thing happened to Carriage horse Charlie) they protestors made it clear: The Carriage horses are only the first step! They are after the rest of us!
ETA
https://www.facebook.com/FamousHorseDrawnCarriagesofCentralPark?pnref=story
I think each city’s carriage horses need to be considered separately. The people who are yelling for all city carriage horses to be banned clearly don’t know what they’re talking about. Consider two very different cities, though. I’m from Salt Lake City, where until recently there were carriage horses that took tourists on rides. These horses weren’t abused by any means, though some of the drivers were way too inexperienced to be doing the job well (my sister was a driver for a while, and I heard stories). The SLC horses were also pulling carriages on busy city streets. There were a few incidents of carriages being in wrecks with cars that resulted in injuries. I don’t think it was necessary for carriage horses to be banned in SLC, but I would have liked to see them moved to a less busy part of the city, where they would have less contact with heavy city traffic.
I’ve never been to NYC, but my understanding is that those carriage horses are working in Central Park, away from the dangers of heavy traffic. Banning the Central Park carriage horses seems like sheer idiocy based entirely on people not understanding that horses are not always happiest standing around in a field doing nothing.
What others said, you have to take each situation independently. The NY carriage horses’ lives have been examined with a microscope. You can’t educate people who don’t want to be educated. That’s the problem with the NY carriage horses. You also need to examine the real estate greed that exists behind the scenes. This isn’t just about the horses.
As to your question about do most people think of their horses as pets? Overall, maybe many do. But there are plenty that use horses as recreation outlets, serious recreation. Not so much a pet to this group but In most cases the horses are well taken care of.
Why do you think that even horse people think that carriage horses are treated cruelly?
[QUOTE=buckskinlover155;8086078]
Why do you think that even horse people think that carriage horses are treated cruelly?[/QUOTE]
just because you call yourself a horse person does not mean you have insight or tolerance.
Nicely illustrated by the daughter of the past mayor Bloomberg, an accomplished rider, anti carriage, then she brings her horse to a photo op with Good Morning America to promote the show in central park!
Uh, make up your mind: do horses belong in the city or not?!
[QUOTE=buckskinlover155;8086078]
Why do you think that even horse people think that carriage horses are treated cruelly?[/QUOTE]
I think if you could take a poll of horse owners, most would probably be ok with the carriage horses as long as they are fed properly, have good vet care, etc etc. not much different than police horses who have to do crowd control". I would say the police horses have a more dangerous job than the carriage horses. Between guns, cars, bombs, stupid people, the police horse leads a more dangerous life. Do animal right folk complain about those horses? Not much. It’s the police who have the power and guns.
Listen, animal rights groups tend to pick on the ones that can’t defend themselves easily, or don’t have a lot of money. They don’t pick on the police. It’s really not about the horses themselves.
[QUOTE=pezk;8086349]
I think if you could take a poll of horse owners, most would probably be ok with the carriage horses as long as they are fed properly, have good vet care, etc etc. not much different than police horses who have to do crowd control". I would say the police horses have a more dangerous job than the carriage horses. Between guns, cars, bombs, stupid people, the police horse leads a more dangerous life. Do animal right folk complain about those horses? Not much. It’s the police who have the power and guns.
Listen, animal rights groups tend to pick on the ones that can’t defend themselves easily, or don’t have a lot of money. They don’t pick on the police. It’s really not about the horses themselves.[/QUOTE]
They also don’t picket bikers for wearing leather…
When I first heard about the carriage horse controversy, I did some basic Googling and quickly discovered what side PETA is vocally on. In general, whatever side PETA is on is probably the wrong one. I’d be not at all surprised to find out that they’re actually an organization of animal haters trying to remove animals from all aspects of human life.
I’d tend to put the “horses pulling carriages is always cruel” crowd in the same category as the “every bit is always cruel, no matter what” crowd. They may or may not know anything about horses, but they seem to have zero understanding of the concept of context or nuance.
