I just need to be able to exercise a chunky 12-hand pony.
Could someone tell me if this cart: http://ocala4sale.com/classifieds/11466458690.php is safe enough to use and the right size (59" shafts)?
I would really appreciate it. Thank you.
To measure a pony to see how long the shafts should be, take a tape measure and measure the horse in a straight line from the shoulder to the point of the rump. Take this measurement and add 8-10 inches to get a proper shaft length.
For a chunky pony, you need to make sure the barrel of the pony will fit in the shafts. There should be enough room to put the flat of your hand between the shaft and your pony barrel.
Finally, the shafts should be carried (in the tugs) in a straight line, horizontal to the ground. The tip of the shaft should be about at the pony’s shoulder, and go on a level line back to the junction of the shafts and cross piece. Measure from the ground up to the point of the shoulder. That should be the height of the shafts when they are held level in order to fit the pony for the best travel/pull (“draft”)
This will give you something to start with to ensure the cart will fit the pony. It will be safe enough on even ground or in a ring, or on the road. It will, however, be very rough riding over uneven ground. Just a friendly warning! 
Bad, Bad and Bad!
Wire wheels…bad, they’re weak to side loads.
Inflatable tires…also bad, they go flat, solids are safer.
Worst of all, the balance is not adjustable. Where the seats are located sure looks like anything in these shafts is carrying a lot of weight on it’s poor back.
I also don’t see a swingletree on it (where the traces attach). Do they have a fitting where the traces just attach solidly to the cart?
Pass on it and look for a nice easy entry wood cart with wood wheels.
Good information! Thanks.
Gothedistance, I’ve copied your post for my files. Much more succinct and clear than what I found online! I wonder if you have any advice for figuring that out without having the pony in the same vicinity as the cart?
Trak, I’d heard a lot of what you wrote before, but I’m just going to be jogging this fellow around the outside of a decent sized field – no speed, no fast turns, and an easy walk in-hand if something breaks or goes flat.
BUT…you did manage to scare me away with that back and weight issue! And I didn’t even notice it doesn’t have a whiffle tree. I’ve never driven a cart that didn’t have one, IIRC. I’m sure I wouldn’t want to expose this little fellow to either one of those issues. Thanks again for pointing them out.
For jogging a pony for conditioning in an arena, in a maintained pasture or on bridlepaths I would use a jog cart. Brands to look for are Jerald, Houghton, Pennsbury and Serafin.
Jerald http://www.jeraldsulky.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=WorkHorse (72" shafts would be pony length)
Pennsbury http://www.pennsburyenterprises.com/jogcarts/saddlebredcarts.html
Jog carts do not have singletrees and wire spoked wheeled jog carts are used by thousands of people in the Saddlebred, Morgan, Hackney and Standardbred world on a daily basis without incident. The horror stories about wire spoked wheels tend to come either from carriage driving folk who have never used them or people who have purchased cheap home made pipe carts with bicycle wheeles on them. Also the shafts of a jog cart, especially one of the drop heel design, should not be level.
Wait a minute there Renae! I’ve got pics on here of my little wood mini cart that a wheel crushed on a quick turn on flat/good footing from the pony having a naughty moment. They were not bike tires, thicker guage spokes, but still crushed all the same. I’ll never own them again.
HOWEVER, Pwyn is in FL, where the ground may/may not be sandy… In that case, pneumatics are a bonus because a solid wheel is going to sink and dig into the sand and make the job for the pony pretty darn difficult.
So best case scenario Pwyn, fine steel spoked pneumatics on whatever cart you get if driving out on a field and not a perfectly groomed arena.
Those are hard to find in cheaper models. If you aren’t on the CD-L list, you might want to join and keep an eye for what comes up for sale. Some good deals now and then, post and ask for what you are looking for and a price range. The Southern GA Carriage Auction is coming up too, might be a bit of a hike up to it, but does have some bargains too.
butlerfamilyzoo you bought a cheap homemade POS. I have never seen such a thing happen with a jog cart made by one of the companies that also makes carts for the harness racing industry. One jog cart I use daily is from the 1940s. It had the orginal wheels until a few year ago when someone carelessly ran into it with the tractor.
Sure. You simply email back the owner of the cart and ask them to put a level on the shaft, and then to drop a measuring tape from the underside of the shaft down to the ground. That will give you the “level height” of the shaft, or in other words, the optimum point the shaft should be for smooth, optimum travel behind the pony. Have them take a photo of the shaft with the level on it, and the measuring tape. You don’t want them “guesstimating” on something as important as this.
Also, ask them where the traces are hooked - there should be a set of open-ended hooks on the inside of the shafts at the heel (where the shafts meet the crosspiece), or they are just under the crosspiece. I didn’t see them in the photos, but assume they are there. If they say there are no hooks, you can always have some welded on, or bolted on. (Frankly, if they say there are neither hooks nor single tree to attach traces, then this is a cart that is pulled (and stopped) by the bellyband wrapstraps (aka: “hold down straps”) - something you don’t want to to. But these carts can be easily modified to fit a more traditional harness with breeching.
Now, in looking at the photos I fail to see the welded “U” under the shaft which is where you run (or better yet, clip with a strong snap) your pony’s breeching strap (which is used as the “brakes” on all recreational harness). Once again, this leads me to believe this cart (if it was used at all) was used without breeching. Anyway, even it it doesn’t have this essential safety piece, you can easily install them by welding a “U” in place on each shaft, or bolting them on. You can also put them exactly where you need them, rather than having to rely upon the less-than-ideal spots they are usually welded on at the factory.
Finally, ask them to measure the height of the seat from the foot platform. Not a big deal in most cases if it is too short or too tall - a bigger cushion on the seat will help with the “too short” and a build-up of short pieces of rubber stall matting will help build up a foot platform.
You WILL, either way, want a nice seat cushion - one with a gentle wedge (like an invalid’s wedged sitting cushion) to give you the proper slant to your body, sit you up straighter, and prevent you from collapsing your shoulders, and center of your body, as you drive. Without that cushion your back will be hitting that backboard with every trot stride, and that hurts. Ask me how I know! :lol::winkgrin:
I pictured you just tootling around an arena with the pony in harness, rather than ponying it off a horse, for exercise. This type of training cart would do the job. It is lightweight, portable, and you can even leave it out in the sun/rain/wind/snow/hail/ (but not tornadoes or hurricanes as it will blow away). It won’t warp or destroy in weather, except the cushions over time.
Ditto on what Renae said. I wrecked a wire wheel jog cart; the shafts were in pieces, but the wheels were fine. I usually get my tires at Target, the last time I splurged and got the ones run flat/self sealing goo inside. They work fine on gravel, shavings, grass or asphalt.
My jog carts both have single trees, my trainer’s doesn’t. If you feel like you need one, they are $15 at Big D’s, and I’m sure with a drill and a little hardware it could be added pretty quick.
If your driving on fairly flat ground, you can do without a breeching. Hundreds of standardbreds and show horses are jogged daily without one, without incident. I’ve got one with my work/jog harness, but it was a special order, and I’ve only used it a couple times. I had an ASB trainer who had never seen one, and he jogs horses daily.
I will second the need for a good cushion. Keeping the tires fully inflated helps the ride as well.
If the shafts are wide enough for your pony, I wouldn’t worry to much if they turned out to be a bit long. Too short can be a problem if their back legs are crowded. Too long just gives you some more distance from back hooves, which can be a good thing. Many training carts have extra long shafts in case a youngster decides to kick.
Renae,
You wouldn’t happen to have a wheel left from your old cart would you? My 1940ish Jerald has mismatched wheels since someone backed a truck into it years ago. I’ve been on the lookout for another oldie that might match the orginal.
Renae, yes, my cart was a “cheap” one, however, it WAS the wheel that crushed which caused the accident and the rest of the cart to break.
I grew up in arabs, i’ve used jerald carts for years, i never had a wheel break on them, so i fully understand what you are saying… However, after seeing one crush, i wont use them again. Personal stance and i’m sticking to it! 
Please check out the Florida Whips website for the classified ads. http://www.flawhips.org/ There are some small carts on there.
It’s like helmets…you don’t need one until your head hits the ground.
Wire wheels collapse during a side load. They don’t allow these in ADS competitions except for the very very beginning classes for a reason–safety. Not for looks or style, but for safety.
The balance looks horrid on the cart. Are you handy? Can you change the seat location to make it comfy for your pony and you?
Looks like a crappy cart…you and your pony deserve to be comfy and safe…keep looking, they’re out there.
Thanks for that advice, too, butlerfamilyzoo (and everyone else – this cart is no longer on my list!). I see the auction is the 2nd week in November. It may well be worth the 4 hour drive (I mapquested it). I need a harness, too, so it just makes sense to wait for the auction, I think – although I’m still glad I posted, given how much I’m learning!
Gothedistance, what great stuff! I’m adding that to the other and will bring it (and my tape measure!) to the auction. Gosh, it’ll be great to go so prepared. And I think I need to measure the pony better, too. He stood next to me in the cement aisle today and he sure looks like he’s grown quite a bit.
[49’er, I had found my way to flwhips, but the only thing I found there was the drool-worthy four-horse, head-to-head].
I’ve just got to add my two cents’ worth on wire wheels. I go over very rough ground with sturdy wire wheels and a powerful pony, and we haven’t had a problem yet. Early on I switched to airless tires (too many prickly pears around here–I can keep the pony feet away but not my cart tires). I’ve done some quick maneuvers at speed and never had a problem.
I liked the airless tires so much, I put them on my bike, too.
Rebecca
Yup, a decent set of wire spoked wheels alone new will cost $440. So the homemade easy entry carts that people pick up at auctions or off of craigslist that cost less than that for the entire cart are not something I would hook to a horse or pony. But there is a world of difference between that cheap cr@p and a quality jog cart or basket cart from one of the companies that has decades of experience manufacturing carts.
[QUOTE=gothedistance;5846237]
Finally, the shafts should be carried (in the tugs) in a straight line, horizontal to the ground. The tip of the shaft should be about at the pony’s shoulder, and go on a level line back to the junction of the shafts and cross piece. Measure from the ground up to the point of the shoulder. That should be the height of the shafts when they are held level in order to fit the pony for the best travel/pull (“draft”) :D[/QUOTE]
I drive a horse & carriage, not a pony and cart, so I have a question about this. Why is it desirable to have shafts horizontal to the ground? On a carriage, the shafts and traces should more or less follow the angle from a lowered crosspiece and whiffletree. This creates a fulcrum which facilitates an easier line of draft.
[QUOTE=michaleenflynn;5857227]
I drive a horse & carriage, not a pony and cart, so I have a question about this. Why is it desirable to have shafts horizontal to the ground? On a carriage, the shafts and traces should more or less follow the angle from a lowered crosspiece and whiffletree. This creates a fulcrum which facilitates an easier line of draft.[/QUOTE]
It’s a whole different world comparing a cart to a carriage. The carriage shafts attach lower down on the vehicle (typically to the front axel). There is no balance involved in a carriage. Of course, too low a draft is miserable for the horse as he’s pulling the front wheels up as if out of a hole…not necessary if the terrain is decent.
A cart depends on the balance of the shafts in the tugs to lessen the weight on the horse’s back and to make the ride in the cart comfortable. A more level shaft can reflect the cart is large enough for the horse vs. riding uphill the whole time with too small a cart (and almost impossible to try and balance in the tugs too!
[QUOTE=Trakehner;5857854]
It’s a whole different world comparing a cart to a carriage. The carriage shafts attach lower down on the vehicle (typically to the front axel). There is no balance involved in a carriage. Of course, too low a draft is miserable for the horse as he’s pulling the front wheels up as if out of a hole…not necessary if the terrain is decent.
A cart depends on the balance of the shafts in the tugs to lessen the weight on the horse’s back and to make the ride in the cart comfortable. A more level shaft can reflect the cart is large enough for the horse vs. riding uphill the whole time with too small a cart (and almost impossible to try and balance in the tugs too![/QUOTE]
Depends on the style of cart. You won’t get a rubber wheeled cart to sit level and they do not have much weight on the shafts. That is wehat the seat adjustment is for-to balance the weight on the shafts.
Take a heavy cart with big wheels(wood or metal) and then this rule applies.
